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You win TYM I bought MK9

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Played some more on story today. Got all the way to MK3 stuff. After playing around in that mode as several more characters I gotta say Kung Lao is even better than I thought. Soooooo easy to keep combos going with him. Loved playing the Smoke matches. Pressure is great with this guy from anywhere on screen. You can never catch your breathe with Smoke around <3

Noticed a few things. Stryker and Jade feel like they could have had potential, but man did they get hit with recovery/startup times on moves. From the grenade toss with Stryker, to both their normals, to most of Jade's stuff it just felt like so close yet so far. Jade's kicks and projectiles were pretty fun, but she didn't feel like she was getting much off anything else. Stryker pistol, baton sweep were okay, but his roll into throw/baton actually felt nice. Too bad the rest of them felt like a let down...probably won't play with them too much even if I did dig the green kicks and the roll setups. I got to Kabal in story and he is just as good as he felt in the old days. Glad his dash through isn't safe on block though since it was so spammed in the old days. Loving the low projectile and his combos.

Overall, my impressions are about the same. I'm more certain than ever I am maining Smoke and possibly building a Sonya backup. Ermac and Noob keep looking stylish enough to tempt me but so far they're the only ones to tempt me entirely based on the visuals of their combos and their visually cool movement. Kung Lao is pretty tempting simply because hes has such fundamentally solid stuff to make a pocket character out of given his combo ease and speed.

Loving this game so far. Can't wait to finish story mode and go into the lab with Smoke for awhile and a sheet of notations.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Do NOT pick up Jade. She's addictive and frustrating to play.
As long as you play high tier characters you'll be having a blast in this game.
Edit: Also, Jade's normals have incredible properties to say the least, but simply because frames win, her i14 fastest bnb starter, meter dependency and horrible recovery times make her a pain.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Do NOT pick up Jade. She's addictive and frustrating to play.
As long as you play high tier characters you'll be having a blast in this game.
Edit: Also, Jade's normals have incredible properties to say the least, but simply because frames win, her i14 fastest bnb starter, meter dependency and horrible recovery times make her a pain.
Yeah her kicks felt fun for cornering and punishing things I could bait the computer into, but once cornered it felt like she had very little in the way of safe blockstrings. Everything kept ending in recovery that got her nailed by stuff. Its why she felt like she had potential to me, but that it didn't quite get realized. Just my knee jerk reaction since I only experienced her story stuff, but I couldn't pressure in the corner with her and stuff thrown kept leaving me open more than others I had used. Kind of gave me the reaction I read above. Stryker felt about the same in his own way except he wasn't about cornering it was about zoning, but his zoning and poke game felt too unsafe like it could be checked by a ton of folks. I got confirmed on that vs Ermac. Pretty much used roll and throw into a few gunshots here and there along with baton sweeps to take that one.

If there is an MK10 (if? yeah its a LOCK) I'd like to see Jade revisited only safer. She seems like a fun concept in her tools, just not very rewarding compared to a bunch of the others I used. Do Jade or Stryker have many people maining them?
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Yeah her kicks felt fun for cornering and punishing things I could bait the computer into, but once cornered it felt like she had very little in the way of safe blockstrings. Everything kept ending in recovery that got her nailed by stuff. Its why she felt like she had potential to me, but that it didn't quite get realized. Just my knee jerk reaction since I only experienced her story stuff, but I couldn't pressure in the corner with her and stuff thrown kept leaving me open more than others I had used. Kind of gave me the reaction I read above. Stryker felt about the same in his own way except he wasn't about cornering it was about zoning, but his zoning and poke game felt too unsafe like it could be checked by a ton of folks. I got confirmed on that vs Ermac. Pretty much used roll and throw into a few gunshots here and there along with baton sweeps to take that one.

If there is an MK10 (if? yeah its a LOCK) I'd like to see Jade revisited only safer. She seems like a fun concept in her tools, just not very rewarding compared to a bunch of the others I used. Do Jade or Stryker have many people maining them?
No, but the people who do main them are awesome. STB Espio AestheticLove and STB Goldfish are some of the coolest people around.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
No, but the people who do main them are awesome. STB Espio AestheticLove and STB Goldfish are some of the coolest people around.
Got any match links? I'd love to see how they footsie and bait folks with charactes like those. They felt like it'd take some really smart matchup reading and player control to keep them in their safe zones when I was feeling them out in story. I'd like to see some of what I missed

EDIT: BTW I'm reading through the Smoke guides. Loving the strategy talk on how to play footsies versus different kinds of players and how to pick backup characters to cover his matchups.
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Got any match links? I'd love to see how they footsie and bait folks with charactes like those. They felt like it'd take some really smart matchup reading and player control to keep them in their safe zones when I was feeling them out in story. I'd like to see some of what I missed.
Here is Espio fighting GamerBlake90, who has an amazing Sonya.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Yeah her kicks felt fun for cornering and punishing things I could bait the computer into, but once cornered it felt like she had very little in the way of safe blockstrings.
Her blockstrings are all about setting the opponent up for her safe distance. 23f2 is your go-to blockstring, inputting df2 will end it in the staffgrab normal for extra meter gain, pushback, and damage in case f2 hits. 12df4/df2 is your other blockstring. But in every case, Jade is about spacing and that is why she feels so out of place in a game of pressure.
Everything kept ending in recovery that got her nailed by stuff.
Whiffing with Jade is what makes her so frustrating to play. Your safe options are meant to set people up for the big stuff, but the big stuff either gets you blown up, or gets you very little in the way of winning the match altogether. Jade is a character that you need to absolutely love in order to endure playing. She has her moments of triumph and on the highest level, due to her options, she's a hard counter to all of the cast except for Kenshi. (who is by far not as bad a matchup as certain people believe, it's just a very steep learning curve in there.)
Its why she felt like she had potential to me, but that it didn't quite get realized. Just my knee jerk reaction since I only experienced her story stuff, but I couldn't pressure in the corner with her and stuff thrown kept leaving me open more than others I had used.
Her cornergame is second only to Jax actually. Even higher level players than myself will agree that if I read them right in the corner, it's a bundle of pain and some of them even forfeit the round in favor of meter gain if I get them there, and they sacrifice a third of their hp to get out of there in the final round, because Jade is the weakest mid-screen and the strongest near the corner a sweep away from the enemy.

Kind of gave me the reaction I read above.
She will. As long as you play Lao, Kenshi, Sonya, and other high-tiers, you'll love this game, but stay away from the "low tier" if you know what's good for you. I whole-heartedly wish I stayed with Kitana instead of Jade when I decided to use her instead, for Challenge Tower #300 back in 2011 May. I'm a one-character player, unfortunately, and Jade has given me great times and horrible times too.
Stryker felt about the same in his own way except he wasn't about cornering it was about zoning, but his zoning and poke game felt too unsafe like it could be checked by a ton of folks. I got confirmed on that vs Ermac. Pretty much used roll and throw into a few gunshots here and there along with baton sweeps to take that one.
I know little about Stryker.
@Espio

If there is an MK10 (if? yeah its a LOCK) I'd like to see Jade revisited only safer. She seems like a fun concept in her tools, just not very rewarding compared to a bunch of the others I used. Do Jade or Stryker have many people maining them?
Jade has a small community of her own but we are praying to God for a patch here. Some gave up on it, I have faith yet. As for MK10... whoever the lady was who possessed her at the end of her story, I hope will make her into a goddess against Shinnok.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Awesome stuff! Thanks for telling me all that. So apparently she has a safe zone for her pressure and unlike other folks its not point blank, but a bit further out and uses staffgrab. I'll watch some matches, but won't go in on her. Like I said she felt like she had some cool tools, but only when they worked. Whenever I whiffed one it was time to eat a combo or blow my breaker. Cool to know how much of her strategy I missed though.

I'll keep posting my initial impressions as I play so I can get some more feedback on things I did right and things I totally missed the point on with characters. Its pretty cool seeing these vids and getting this feedback as I try to learn about the cast and how they function.
 

Espio

Kokomo
You're interested in Stryker and Jade!? This is unusual but awesome :).

I would absolutely love to go over both of these characters with you and answer all your questions. Stryker and Jade are both fun and entertaining characters...I find them to have a lot in common, while still being unique and special in their own way.

They aren't the best, but you can do well with them if you put in the time to make their fundamentals and footsies shine to their full potential.

Play who you're enjoying, it makes learning a game much easier and engaging.

Here is Espio fighting GamerBlake90, who has an amazing Sonya.
I did so bad against his Kitana haha..I forgot about that, I usually do great against them with Stryker and Jade. Thanks for the mention buddy :).
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
You're interested in Stryker and Jade!? This is unusual but awesome :).

I would absolutely love to go over both of these characters with you and answer all your questions. Stryker and Jade are both fun and entertaining characters...I find them to have a lot in common, while still being unique and special in their own way.

They aren't the best, but you can do well with them if you put in the time to make their fundamentals and footsies shine to their full potential.

Play who you're enjoying, it makes learning a game much easier and engaging.



I did so bad against his Kitana haha..I forgot about that, I usually do great against them with Stryker and Jade. Thanks for the mention buddy :).
I wouldn't say I'm interested in playing them, but I am interested in how there footsies and strings are meant to work. What are their safe ranges and what are your enders and starters for strings to stay safe or to just plain keep people in the zones you want? The Stryker vid above seemed pretty close to about what I was doing though way better on blocks and such. My general thoughts were at full screen or if the computer got jump happy I could grenade toss. That or point blank in the right situation. Mainly I just back dashed and gunshot and used baton sweeps here and there. If they were cornering me I'd go for roll throw to put them in the corner and give me my distance back.

Did better with Stryker than Jade. Jade was a mess. I'd abuse green kicks like crazy and try for her projectile, but it seemed to be beat pretty often in the story mode by the folks I took on (Mileena / Cage mainly). Jade's staff throw I hardly used but it seemed like her staff jumping thingy could create some fun combos. Like I said, when she worked she worked but whiff anything and you paid for it. I was largely trying to figure out how to do blockstrings in the corner to open the computer up given her double green kicks would corner them so easily. Being an Iron Fist player it was just sorta instinct to try to figure out some frame traps with someone who seemed designed to push you back to the corner. Didn't work at all though.

Like I said, I'm goin' all in on Smoke and had him scouted before I bought this because his smoke bomb looked really cool to setup resets. I just played a lot of low tier in other games that emphasized corner control and pushing people away so Jade and Stryker seemed familiar, but odd in their execution. For the record in UMVC3 my team is Taskmaster/Iron Fist/ Arthur built entirely around zoning heavy when Iron Fist isn't in and using Iron Fist for frame traps in the corner if he is in. This is why Jade/ Stryker with their guns and shurikens and Jades Kicks pushing people toward the corner seemed pretty familiar, but simultaneously weird in its execution to me.

Feel free to talk meta with me though on any characters I bring up curiosity about here though folks. I like hearing how folks function. For example Cyrax and Cyblax seemed pretty different for some reason, but I can't place why. Is Cyrax faster? Also I liked the diving throws Cyblax had when I used him. Pretty fun dude.
 

Espio

Kokomo
I wouldn't say I'm interested in playing them, but I am interested in how there footsies and strings are meant to work. What are their safe ranges and what are your enders and starters for strings to stay safe or to just plain keep people in the zones you want? The Stryker vid above seemed pretty close to about what I was doing though way better on blocks and such. My general thoughts were at full screen or if the computer got jump happy I could grenade toss. That or point blank in the right situation. Mainly I just back dashed and gunshot and used baton sweeps here and there. If they were cornering me I'd go for roll throw to put them in the corner and give me my distance back.

Did better with Stryker than Jade. Jade was a mess. I'd abuse green kicks like crazy and try for her projectile, but it seemed to be beat pretty often in the story mode by the folks I took on (Mileena / Cage mainly). Jade's staff throw I hardly used but it seemed like her staff jumping thingy could create some fun combos. Like I said, when she worked she worked but whiff anything and you paid for it. I was largely trying to figure out how to do blockstrings in the corner to open the computer up given her double green kicks would corner them so easily. Being an Iron Fist player it was just sorta instinct to try to figure out some frame traps with someone who seemed designed to push you back to the corner. Didn't work at all though.

Like I said, I'm goin' all in on Smoke and had him scouted before I bought this because his smoke bomb looked really cool to setup resets. I just played a lot of low tier in other games that emphasized corner control and pushing people away so Jade and Stryker seemed familiar, but odd in their execution. For the record in UMVC3 my team is Taskmaster/Iron Fist/ Arthur built entirely around zoning heavy when Iron Fist isn't in and using Iron Fist for frame traps in the corner if he is in. This is why Jade/ Stryker with their guns and shurikens and Jades Kicks pushing people toward the corner seemed pretty familiar, but simultaneously weird in its execution to me.

Feel free to talk meta with me though on any characters I bring up curiosity about here though folks. I like hearing how folks function. For example Cyrax and Cyblax seemed pretty different for some reason, but I can't place why. Is Cyrax faster? Also I liked the diving throws Cyblax had when I used him. Pretty fun dude.

Umm there's a lot of variations of their safe stuff, 1,2 is neutral on block for both characters for example. It's hard to describe safe ranges without a visual, especially for all the wide range of normals they possess.
http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/espios-jade-video-guide.23462/
http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/espios-stryker-video-guide.23470/

Roll toss is good for changing positions as you've noticed, but its main function is counterzoning, forcing a projectile whiff although it also works as a great combo ender too.


Don't abuse shadow kicks, it's neutral on block, but not safe on whiff duck to be throwing out too much in general. Jade has to be played a bit more cleanly. Throwing projectiles at mileena is usually a bad idea unless she's distracted throwing a sai or something like that because Jade's rang's are slow(this also applies to faster projectiles too though.


Whiffing is very unsafe with anybody, it just so happens Jade whiff recovery is less good because of her great range and hitbox on her normals. She zones more with her limbs than her boomerangs also by the way.

As for safe strings that are commonly used:

Stryker: Back 1,2,2

Back 2, forward 2

1,2

1,1

Back 3,2

are all neutral or slightly negative (0 to -3 on block)


An example of a Stryker bnb I use: Jump in Punch, Back 1,2,2, neutral jump punch, 2, gun shot, 1,2 roll toss 39%.

Jade: Back 3, 2

2,3 forward 2

1,2

3,4


(0 to -3 on block)

An example of a Jade bnb I use: Jump in punch, 3, staff overhead, back 2, 1,2, 2,3, forward 2, staff grab/shadow kick for 37%.




They have additional safe on block options aside from these, but it's just a sample.


Also, the computer is a mind reader, it's hard to open it up to pressure in the corner or mid screen lol.


I did remember seeing you say you were picking up Smoke...just thought you were going to play all three, I apologize. The corner is usually really good for all characters and Jade and Stryker have their own type of resets and corner pressure to bully, it's good and viable.


I'm actually not familiar with those UMVC3, I never followed the series unfortunately. They're ideal if you like counterzoning and more defensive footsies, one of their biggest strengths, but people sometimes find them awkward you could say.

I don't know anything about Cyrax/Cyblax but check the Cyrax forum, J360 made a video on the differences I think.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Wow thanks for the everything Espio. BTW I like the usage of roll throw to go under standing projectiles from your vid. Kitana's fans can be a pain and why trade when you can just chuck her instead? From the looks of it I got the general idea with Stryker even though I wasn't very good at it, but had no clue with how to be safe with Jade. I notice 3 and 4 aren't really used a lot with Stryker in your stuff which pretty much confirms what I thought...dude can't kick for crap lol.

As for Smoke, I pretty much stopped casually observing in approval the EVO stuff and seriously paying attention to how unique this game is with some of its stuff when I saw a match vid with Smoke using his smoke bomb. I had never seen a projectile teleport an opponent before much less one thats fast, tracks, and dumps them in front of you to abuse. I saw that and I began to dig deeper and start considering buying the game. All the info from talks in the Injustice forums pushed me over the edge though. Smoke is definitely who I've wanted to main for a long while and I got to say I'm loving him so far. I was just super curious about Stryker and Jade because unlike the rest of the cast in Story mode these two didn't seem so straight forward with their options as the rest.

I'll probably try to use Sonya as a backup because I like her cartwheel, pink mist, and the angle of her springing kick thing. That and her speed. If not her then maybe Kung Lao, because it seemed like his offense was damned hard to stop. If I got in on anyone else it'd probably be based on either fun factor or visual appeal meaning Ermac, Noob, or maybe Rain or Kenshi (haven't tried them yet, but Kenshi has a cool gimmick and look).

I'll be spending awhile feeling out cast for secondaries as I play around story mode and practice with Smoke though. Feel free to talk up anything that comes to mind.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Wow thanks for the everything Espio. BTW I like the usage of roll throw to go under standing projectiles from your vid. Kitana's fans can be a pain and why trade when you can just chuck her instead? From the looks of it I got the general idea with Stryker even though I wasn't very good at it, but had no clue with how to be safe with Jade. I notice 3 and 4 aren't really used a lot with Stryker in your stuff which pretty much confirms what I thought...dude can't kick for crap lol.

As for Smoke, I pretty much stopped casually observing in approval the EVO stuff and seriously paying attention to how unique this game is with some of its stuff when I saw a match vid with Smoke using his smoke bomb. I had never seen a projectile teleport an opponent before much less one thats fast, tracks, and dumps them in front of you to abuse. I saw that and I began to dig deeper and start considering buying the game. All the info from talks in the Injustice forums pushed me over the edge though. Smoke is definitely who I've wanted to main for a long while and I got to say I'm loving him so far. I was just super curious about Stryker and Jade because unlike the rest of the cast in Story mode these two didn't seem so straight forward with their options as the rest.

I'll probably try to use Sonya as a backup because I like her cartwheel, pink mist, and the angle of her springing kick thing. That and her speed. If not her then maybe Kung Lao, because it seemed like his offense was damned hard to stop. If I got in on anyone else it'd probably be based on either fun factor or visual appeal meaning Ermac, Noob, or maybe Rain or Kenshi (haven't tried them yet, but Kenshi has a cool gimmick and look).

I'll be spending awhile feeling out cast for secondaries as I play around story mode and practice with Smoke though. Feel free to talk up anything that comes to mind.

Thank you :). The damage off of a roll toss at 12% is much better than a projectile too and sends the opponent full screen basically so it's a really great pay off when you make the correct read.



That's not precisely accurate, standing 4 is good for anti-air, checking opponents that are dashing in on you/to deal with pressure if spaced out correctly and it's 8 frames, his second fastest standing normal. 3 is good for checking pokes, Stryker's reset options and things of that nature. They have their uses.

Good luck with Smoke, not particularly savy on him, but yes Smoke bomb is one of the best/easiest whiff punishers in the game, you can punish people anywhere on the screen with this special and don't have to worry about dashing far to combo them further.


Sonya and Kung Lao are both really good characters with a lot of dirt, I'm sure you'll put them to good use.


Noob, Rain, and Ermac are really fun. Kenshi also happens to be in the really good category too.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Wow its like they went out of their way to make the visually exciting characters pretty good. I can't wait to see what I run into next.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Wow its like they went out of their way to make the visually exciting characters pretty good. I can't wait to see what I run into next.
If only this was the universal standard for every character lol. I do find some low tier characters entertaining to watch at high level like Noob Saibot and Sheeva, but some of the top tier are also equally entertaining in their own ways too.
 

Hemlock

Apprentice
Welcome to the cult! I absolutely love this game and can't believe how much there is to check out, beat, discover, savor, enjoy, obsess over, talk about, dream about, etc.