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General/Other - Sonya Blade XL Sonya General Discussion

Dedlock

Noob
Just learn to not spam divekicks and walk in. You should always be punished for a whiffed divekick.
Whiffed dive kicks help bridging the distance against projectile spammers, playing Covert Ops exclusively this is one area that has remained trying and now has gotten even more difficult to overcome.

Having a whole 13 frame recovery allows for full combo punish for a whiffed dive kick, given she has limited options ( ie poor projectile, no ex version of dive kicks, erratic Arc kick that is stopped by most projectiles even with ex armour) is imo a bit harsh,

And if you compare her to other dive kick users she's in an obvious disadvantage.

Kung Lao has teleports/ ex teleports and an ex armoured dive kick.

Kung Jin has an ex dive kick and good ground and air projectiles and air space control.

Tri borg, cyber sub has a variety of divekicks/ex dive kicks and the ex slide /slide.

so comparatively Sonya has an average/ starting frame dive kick, that is block punishable ( as it should be) and whiff punishable( 13 recovery frames restricting her placement) and no ex version to back her up.

Therefore against zoners, there is very little she can do (Covert Ops ) if they decide to lock you out at full screen distance.

It's just a minor frustration or an injustice if you ask me, especially now that projectiles in general and the games lag has improved, it puts Sonya in general at a disadvantage. But never mind, I'll live.
 

Dedlock

Noob
Which zoner is keeping you out at full distance?
It used to be a select few but the list has increased

Shinnok (all)
Kitana ( all)
Kenshi ( balanced)
Reptile ( all)
Jaquie ( fa)
Leatherface (pw)
Alien ( acid)
Predator ( hkt)
Sektor

Even Mileena now can afford to stand back and spam projectiles.

If the opponent knows their timing and spacing they can literally zone me out and it happened most recently today against pretty woman leather face just started throwing chainsaws at me once he started losing and I couldn't do anything about it and lost.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
Balanced Kenshi isn't hard to get in against. He's so unsafe. Everyone else is duck, jump, divekick, EX Arc Kick, or even regular arc kick in some situations and pray you read the opponent correctly. F2B1 is really good for closing the distance if you're close enough. Maining CO Sonya means you just have to accept she is shit against zoning. I've started learning other characters and I plan on using Mileena to cover the weakness (I've always wanted to play Mileena anyways).

Leatherface chainsaw throw spam shouldn't just outright make you lose though. She has the tools to beat it if you see he's obviously just mindlessly spamming it. EX Arc Kick would keep him in check. Sonya uses so little meter that it's not costly.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Generally the ranking of her variations goes:
Demolition > Covert Ops > Special Forces
That seems to be the consencus. But I'm struggling to work out what makes Covert Ops better than Special Forces.

Special Forces gets mix ups with Block+4 and Block+1 which are +34 and +3 on block respectively and a full combo from the low, Block+4, and a guaranteed homing missile from the overhead option (Block+1)
Covert ops gets mixups from MS3, MS4 and MS1. The overhead (MS4) is unsafe but leads to full combo. The low is unsafe and doesn't lead to anything. And tthe grap can be crouched and punished on a read.

Special forces gets ~34% from a low, ~29% from overhead and both gets a drone setup.
Covert Ops I believe get's about the same. So damage wise they're pretty equal.

Special forces gets pressure on block by cancelling b332/b14 into Block+4 for +34 which guarantees literally any normal. Block+1 which +3 and Block+2 which scares the opponent from pressing a button.
Covert ops doesn't really get any pressure outside of cancelling MS, but it seems pretty gimmicky to me.

Special Forces can get ~38% in corner into drone setups which stops them from leaving the corner, and armour breaking on wakeups.
Covert Ops about 35% into a standard oki.

Special Forces gets a meterless wakeup in Block+4 which deals 10%. Usually a trade though.
Covert ops doesn't gain any wakeup options.

Special Forces gets good zoning with the homing missile, kamikaze's and energy rings as well as anti zoning as the homing missile makes it easier to approach.
Covert ops has poor zoning.

Special forces is variationless without drone and can sometimes be difficult to open up the opponent to get a drone out safely.
Covert Ops always has her tools available with the parry/ ex parry which leads to 46% and MS.

So what is it exactly that makes covert ops better? I can't figure it out.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
I've always thought Spec Ops was better, but CO is easier to play. Most people don't know about how unsafe military stance is. I've never played Spec Ops though.
 

xxKYUxx

Noob
I'm not sure if this is already known or is worth even asking but, why don't CO sonya players use ms4 as a anti wakeup.
 

Dedlock

Noob
I've always thought Spec Ops was better, but CO is easier to play. Most people don't know about how unsafe military stance is. I've never played Spec Ops though.
I'm not sure if this is already known or is worth even asking but, why don't CO sonya players use ms4 as a anti wakeup.
At 23 frames it's too Slow!

Shady heart I've been saying that from the start Military Stance mixup, it's very readable Ms 4 should be used as a combo extender, MS3 is a slow poke, MS1 has no use apart from randomly springing it out once in a while it whiffs outright and has poor damage 10% less than other throws.
 

skater11

The saltiest
Premium Supporter
What's ya'lls' BnB for d1, low-float anti-air combos? I always react with f2~leg grab, but I'd like a bigger combo, and to not lose position.
That's as much as you are gonna get out of that. Unless you use Demolition then you can squeeze some more dmg depending on how much grenades you have at the time.
 

skater11

The saltiest
Premium Supporter
I have trouble punishing projectiles with a DK on a read. Anyone else? Like I'll clearly read liu kang throw a straight fireball and i'll jump forward into DK but NEARLY every single time, my DK will get BLOCKED or if I try to do it quicker I get hit by the BACK side of the projectile. This happens to me way too much that I rather go for a jump in 1 and be more safe.
 

Dedlock

Noob
I have trouble punishing projectiles with a DK on a read. Anyone else? Like I'll clearly read liu kang throw a straight fireball and i'll jump forward into DK but NEARLY every single time, my DK will get BLOCKED or if I try to do it quicker I get hit by the BACK side of the projectile. This happens to me way too much that I rather go for a jump in 1 and be more safe.
You're lucky I've had liu kang throw fireballs and as I jump in Dk for a read punish they recover and straight up uppercut me, the idea is to not use her drop kick at all unless it's a jump back punish or jip followed by DK which only adds like 1% damage.

That's why I mentioned if they atleast made it recover faster on whiff,Sonya could use it against zoners also it would be cool to see an ex drop kick become a bicycle kick like in MK9.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
You're lucky I've had liu kang throw fireballs and as I jump in Dk for a read punish they recover and straight up uppercut me, the idea is to not use her drop kick at all unless it's a jump back punish or jip followed by DK which only adds like 1% damage.

That's why I mentioned if they atleast made it recover faster on whiff,Sonya could use it against zoners also it would be cool to see an ex drop kick become a bicycle kick like in MK9.
Having a quicker recovery on a move that grants 40% if it hits seems unfair to me, it's already pretty fast at 13 frames. I don't dive kick a projectile on a read as such. I'll jump forward on a read of a projectile and only dive kick once I see the projectile animation and it works fine.
 

skater11

The saltiest
Premium Supporter
Having a quicker recovery on a move that grants 40% if it hits seems unfair to me, it's already pretty fast at 13 frames. I don't dive kick a projectile on a read as such. I'll jump forward on a read of a projectile and only dive kick once I see the projectile animation and it works fine.
Yeah thats what I meant, in my post. I DK in the air on reaction after jumping a fireball but as mentioned earlier. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE time the opponent either recovers in time or my DK is interrupted by the projectile somehow.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Yeah thats what I meant, in my post. I DK in the air on reaction after jumping a fireball but as mentioned earlier. ALMOST EVERY SINGLE time the opponent either recovers in time or my DK is interrupted by the projectile somehow.
Huh that's weird. Maybe your spacing is a bit out.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
I haven't had an issue with divekicking over projectiles. You're probably just getting the spacing/timing wrong.
 

Monster Planet

Premium
Premium Supporter
variations (snip)

CO just has everything when you need it--I know I bulldog other drone/nade Sonyas any time they try and hustle for a set-up to call. DB1 parry is garbo and her OKI is moderate v. Demo though.

I think people downplay demo.'s downtime significantly.
 

JerQ_Q

Noob
CO just has everything when you need it--I know I bulldog other drone/nade Sonyas any time they try and hustle for a set-up to call. DB1 parry is garbo and her OKI is moderate v. Demo though.

I think people downplay demo.'s downtime significantly.
What are you tryin to say?
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
I was playing @UsedForGlue with special forces against his cyber sub zero and really struggled with the mu because of how mobile he is I couldn't establish any zoning or pressure because of all the fucking divekicks that are like 1 frame recovery. Any one know how to face this mu?

It was 2-2 when he moved to buzzsaw and ended 6-3 to him. I felt I was improving with the buzzsaw mu as the games went on but he left. I don't feel like I was learning the csz mu though even though I won a couple games.
 
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Ayase Chihaya

Chihayafuru
I feel that SF is stronger really, plus on block mixups and the guessing is literally endless, OH/OH, OH/Low/Low, Low/OH, Low/low/low, Low/low/oh. On top of that she has the neutral control as colby mentioned... It's really underrated