General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

[xSamuel]

Does anyone know how many frames a crossup is? Spear is +68 and recovery on ex invis is 41. j2 is 8 frames and +50 and I'm wondering if you can get a crossover j2 in 27 frames to jail. If you're +50 you can crossup oh or njp for a meterless oh starter. The screen raises so they can see you're jumping but they can't see what you're doing. Crazy mixups like empty jumps, staggers, etc. I just feel like they had to give him some broke shit since every string has a gap, no armor, and meter dependency.

I think that the hunt will be short lived, my friend. I've been very underwhelmed in my few days playing him. The fact that he has a mid, b21, that whiffs on crouch blocking opponents shows the level of depth they looked into him. Once people know Smoke he will be a massive gamble at every step.

 

[xKhaoTik]

What is everyone ending their resets in? I use 3 but i might start using f21. & for a rush down character i use ex smoke away for a wake up, but how good is it?

3, 3 phase or 21 are the best options. All guarantee a 50/50

 

[HolidaycSin]

3, 3 phase or 21 are the best options. All guarantee a 50/50

I think 21 does more damage so i will use that thanks

 

[Gafar_NN]

I got main question, why smoke don't have - "shake" special move? I think I address it to NRS...

 

[dwz_mk9]

They need to make B1 xx smoke bomb connect no matter what. That's my biggest issue with smoke atm.

 

[BrobaChett]

So, this character has ridiculously good anti-airs. His standing 1 on a cross up is a free combo from what I've tested on a few characters. His standing 4 on a jump in punch is also guaranteed into a vortex as well.

Hands down feels like he has the best AA.

If someone else has posted on this ignore this message. I rarely check TYM.

 

[iamShorteh]

Dawm !!!!!! things are heating up in this thread lol

That was to be expected.
Words of the wise man himself: "Where there is Smoke, there is Fire".

 

[Harlequin969]

So to keep Smoke safe we have exsb and smoke toward? Is that it and is smoke toward really that viable an option for safety?

 

[xKhaoTik]

I think 21 does more damage so i will use that thanks

It doesn't

 

[xKhaoTik]

So to keep Smoke safe we have exsb and smoke toward? Is that it and is smoke toward really that viable an option for safety?

Smoke is already pretty safe for the most part when it comes to his strings and stuff. It's just canceling to sb. Once people know EVERYTHING into sb on block can be blown up except 114 (which has a gap anyways), that's when it's gonna get annoying.

Some strings into phase can be blown up to. I know 21 Phase is completely safe tho.


On a different note, can we talk about how dirty f21 is?

 

[Harlequin969]

Smoke is already pretty safe for the most part when it comes to his strings and stuff. It's just canceling to sb. Once people know EVERYTHING into sb on block can be blown up except 114 (which has a gap anyways), that's when it's gonna get annoying.

Some strings into phase can be blown up to. I know 21 Phase is completely safe tho.


On a different note, can we talk about how dirty f21 is?

I only say that because I get blown up for trying to do f214 or b214 because it whiffs so much. That or people are learning that matchup really fast.
But you're right. People respect the hell out of f21

 

[nugava]

b1 into EX spear and b3 into EX spear is a true safe blockstring

 

[jokey77]

I hear all this talk about the vortex and it seems totally narrowminded to me...

There is a gap between a blocked b3 and the ordinary smokebomb that can be used to jump out. This does not even require meter/armor. I even think that some sort of option select should be possible, where you hold up/forward and then release block just for a moment. Afterwards you either remain in the blockstun or you jump over your opponent for the punish. The mixup/vortex might very well be the weakest aspect of his game. Especially if one keeps in mind that his damage output is kinda low...

Generally this community seems to focus on the wrong aspects of Smoke.

What really matters is making use of the +frames which is no easy task indeed.

 

[Scott The Scot]

So, this character has ridiculously good anti-airs. His standing 1 on a cross up is a free combo from what I've tested on a few characters. His standing 4 on a jump in punch is also guaranteed into a vortex as well.

Hands down feels like he has the best AA.

If someone else has posted on this ignore this message. I rarely check TYM.

Standing 1 and Standing 3 have RIDICULOUS horizontal hitboxes. Like, basically you can anti-air people half screen away into like 37%. I use S3 outside of 4 range.

 

[Roko1985]

Just use the Standing 3 vortex!

 

[nugava]

I hear all this talk about the vortex and it seems totally narrowminded to me...

There is a gap between a blocked b3 and the ordinary smokebomb that can be used to jump out. This does not even require meter/armor. I even think that some sort of option select should be possible, where you hold up/forward and then release block just for a moment. Afterwards you either remain in the blockstun or you jump over your opponent for the punish. The mixup/vortex might very well be the weakest aspect of his game. Especially if one keeps in mind that his damage output is kinda low...

Generally this community seems to focus on the wrong aspects of Smoke.

What really matters is making use of the +frames which is no easy task indeed.

You want a safe vortex ? Kappa

 

[KombatJames]

I hear all this talk about the vortex and it seems totally narrowminded to me...

There is a gap between a blocked b3 and the ordinary smokebomb that can be used to jump out. This does not even require meter/armor. I even think that some sort of option select should be possible, where you hold up/forward and then release block just for a moment. Afterwards you either remain in the blockstun or you jump over your opponent for the punish. The mixup/vortex might very well be the weakest aspect of his game. Especially if one keeps in mind that his damage output is kinda low...

Generally this community seems to focus on the wrong aspects of Smoke.

What really matters is making use of the +frames which is no easy task indeed.

+frames from what? Can you elaborate?

 

[nugava]

Upclose... 21 is not bad... +2 on block... (It has a lot of pushback unfortunately)

 

[jokey77]

+frames from what? Can you elaborate?

His strongest tool is b21-ex smokebomb. Easy to hitconfirm and can be started from full screen away. This leaves you at +8.

Now things become tricky because the opponent is able to avoid both the low and the oh by NJP.

Thus you need f4 as a guaranteed threat to stop them from jumping. This is the "go to"-offense that can later be altered by using mixups.

However there are better options than b3/b1.

Noobs only see a vortex or semi-unblockables while they neglect the neutral. However this is where Smoke shines... His Vortex sucks compared to the one of Cyrax eg.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Smoke is already pretty safe for the most part when it comes to his strings and stuff. It's just canceling to sb. Once people know EVERYTHING into sb on block can be blown up except 114 (which has a gap anyways), that's when it's gonna get annoying.

Some strings into phase can be blown up to. I know 21 Phase is completely safe tho.


On a different note, can we talk about how dirty f21 is?

F21- I agree. The fact that you can slightly delay the 3 ender or Tele/EX Tele is pretty good, IMO. And F213 is safe, plus leads to a very advantageous HKD. Good range. The animation itself can play mind games.
Something I worked on before work this morning (for maybe 15 minutes- not a huge lab session, unf.) was F21 into Smoke Away/Forward, and the EX Phase, too. I think it creates a pretty good opportunity to cause the opponent to panic and whiff a move/armor, especially if they want to armor the gap. Of course using normal Phase is a risk, but I don't think it shouldn't be used once in a while.
I just tested against SG Kotal, with EX Cmd grab as a reversal, and F21-normal Phase Away allowed me to whiff punish him. Phase Forward- the cmd grab auto corrected and got me. A few times I slightly delayed the Phase Forward and wasn't grabbed, but the timing was very tricky. Wasn't consistent.
EX Phasing, I didn't have time to mess with against Kotal.
Obvi, a Smoke player would have to lab this strategy extensively, due to the amount of reversals in the game, but it is something. And honestly, a strong gimmick this early on.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Upclose... 21 is not bad... +2 on block... (It has a lot of pushback unfortunately)

His strings do have good range, though.
F4D1, F21, F13 immediately come to mind. B3 and B1 will also reach.
To me, B3 has crazy range for the little animation it has. Both b1 and b3 bit at start of round distance.

 

[just_2swift]

Yo smoke boyz I'm back what did I miss

 

[jokey77]

The discussion is shifting the way it should: no more talk about the vortex, but about frametraps and pressure in general.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I personally like staggering my strings with 1, 11, 111 and F13. Then going in for a grab or smoke bomb. I imagine you could do EX Smoke bomb and try to open your opponent up with a B3/B1.

 

[Yak]

So what can smoke do against pressure.... Fade move I just get hit before it even gets started, I've mainly just been using it by baiting someone to start a string and then using it to catch them and punish them whiffing. Also, hit confirming the b1 overhead is a struggle for me