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General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero XL Cyber Sub-Zero Discussion Thread

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
@bobabuster I don't think you're missing anything lol Cyber Sub-Zero has more tools by a large margin. I DO think GM's corner game is slightly better though.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
@bobabuster I don't think you're missing anything lol Cyber Sub-Zero has more tools by a large margin. I DO think GM's corner game is slightly better though.
Yea at the end of the day no ones got a better corner game than GM , even with all the inconsistant shit and problems he has
 

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
Two pages back or so , I dunno maybe I was skimming too much and that was the only thing that caught my eye
All I said is it would be nice to have a poke that isn't B2, B3, or instant air dive kick/ slide. I'm getting used to using those tools more instead of down poking. B3 is the only safe option out of those.

Yes his freeze should be punishable. Im all for normalizing his hard to blockables in the corner for some better poking tools. His b3d4 isn't even that hard to block once you learn the tech anyways
 

14K

Noob
All I said is it would be nice to have a poke that isn't B2, B3, or instant air dive kick/ slide. I'm getting used to using those tools more instead of down poking. B3 is the only safe option out of those.

Yes his freeze should be punishable. Im all for normalizing his hard to blockables in the corner for some better poking tools. His b3d4 isn't even that hard to block once you learn the tech anyways
He means me, Cause clearly im the only one that thinks that with the lack of decent mids/normals with the exception of 1 or 2 and the fact that he cant make himself safe or have plus frames on any meterburned special like Normal Sub has on his Iceball and cant keep pressure on the opponent makes this character like top stuff... CZ0 is not bad dont get me wrong, his just not good... Still have fun playing him regardless
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Really how?
Higher damage, consistent, no fear of armor, and better mix-ups, and safe on both options

The only thing she lacks is throw into clone, and needs meter to be safe on the overhead. So maybe "even with Sub" would be fairer.
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
Higher damage, consistent, no fear of armor, and better mix-ups, and safe on both options

The only thing she lacks is throw into clone, and needs meter to be safe on the overhead. So maybe "even with Sub" would be fairer.
The mixups is the same. She definitely still has to fear armour as well. Better damage? How high? Cassies only safe with meter
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
The mixups is the same. She definitely still has to fear armour as well. Better damage? How high? Cassies only safe with meter
safe with meter is better than unsafe no matter what (like Subs B2 against 95% of the cast), she doesn't have to fear armour if you use the vortex
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
She has a restand?
MB nut punch guarantees a mix up. I think Brawler has a meterless one too.

Ironically, I think CSZ can beat MB nut punch invincibility with his corner game. Bomb or MB bomb should catch it regardless of if we block or not.

Can you guy think of any other characters like this, who's armor options are bodied by bombs? So far, I've caught Tempest Lao, Raiden, D'Vorah, Shirai Ryu Takeda... I know there are more, there has to be. I suspect Crystal Tremor, Sun God Kotal, Quan Chi, and some others.
 

Shaikhuzzaman

magicmeerkatman
MB nut punch guarantees a mix up. I think Brawler has a meterless one too.

Ironically, I think CSZ can beat MB nut punch invincibility with his corner game. Bomb or MB bomb should catch it regardless of if we block or not.

Can you guy think of any other characters like this, who's armor options are bodied by bombs? So far, I've caught Tempest Lao, Raiden, D'Vorah, Shirai Ryu Takeda... I know there are more, there has to be. I suspect Crystal Tremor, Sun God Kotal, Quan Chi, and some others.
This guys argument seems to be if you have infinite meter Cassie is better in the corner
Sektor can't wake up against CSZ.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
He means me, Cause clearly im the only one that thinks that with the lack of decent mids/normals with the exception of 1 or 2 and the fact that he cant make himself safe or have plus frames on any meterburned special like Normal Sub has on his Iceball and cant keep pressure on the opponent makes this character like top stuff... CZ0 is not bad dont get me wrong, his just not good... Still have fun playing him regardless
You're not the only one. I agree too. The lack of mids is bad.

The only one is F4, but it gets low profiles easy. My training partners are learning the MU now, and facing chars like say A-List has become a real headache. His D4 beats CSZ entire moveset. And when I block it I can't punish because a 2nd D4 hits any follow up. All I can do is risk an unsafe DK, but he can block and full combo punish. My only "safe" option is to back away after a blocked D4. Having so many limited options after blocking it can make you hesitate, and then you block a F3 and his in your face. Not enjoying this MU at all anymore to the point that I've started switching to my other main.

This is just one example, but I can see certain characters becoming a real problem because of this. Still a good character, but I think the Top 5 talk is more of a Day 3 talk than week 3 talk at this point. Characters like Alien, Takeda, Mileena are clearly better imo.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Yeah I was just playing the A-List matchup, it's not great. You really need to keep chucking out bombs/iceballs/B2~specials/F2 to make sure you keep him away and keep control of neutral. Otherwise it's guess time when he gets in and you're pretty much fucked.
 

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
You're not the only one. I agree too. The lack of mids is bad.

The only one is F4, but it gets low profiles easy. My training partners are learning the MU now, and facing chars like say A-List has become a real headache. His D4 beats CSZ entire moveset. And when I block it I can't punish because a 2nd D4 hits any follow up. All I can do is risk an unsafe DK, but he can block and full combo punish. My only "safe" option is to back away after a blocked D4. Having so many limited options after blocking it can make you hesitate, and then you block a F3 and his in your face. Not enjoying this MU at all anymore to the point that I've started switching to my other main.

This is just one example, but I can see certain characters becoming a real problem because of this. Still a good character, but I think the Top 5 talk is more of a Day 3 talk than week 3 talk at this point. Characters like Alien, Takeda, Mileena are clearly better imo.
I have found b3 works well as a counter poke tool against low profile d4's, but the timing is tight. If you're not in the corner, B2 xx bomb setup is almost better than a counter poke option. Against down 1 and 3, b2 has been my go to option. It's weird not using real pokes most of the match, but I'm getting better at MU's such as J Cage, Kano, etc.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I have found b3 works well as a counter poke tool against low profile d4's, but the timing is tight. If you're not in the corner, B2 xx bomb setup is almost better than a counter poke option. Against down 1 and 3, b2 has been my go to option. It's weird not using real pokes most of the match, but I'm getting better at MU's such as J Cage, Kano, etc.
Yup I've had to resort to the same. B2 bomb/B2 icebeam/ even B2 slide lol. There's just no way to poke with characters like that without losing in it. I tried B3 out but it seemed either too strict to be reliable for me or spacing specific to work consistently. Not too sure why it worked sometimes and not others so I resort to risky DK, jump away, or B2~stuff.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
He means me, Cause clearly im the only one that thinks that with the lack of decent mids/normals with the exception of 1 or 2 and the fact that he cant make himself safe or have plus frames on any meterburned special like Normal Sub has on his Iceball and cant keep pressure on the opponent makes this character like top stuff... CZ0 is not bad dont get me wrong, his just not good... Still have fun playing him regardless
Umm... Normal sub zero isn't plus or safe off a ex ice ball , he's -8 , anyone with a 7 frame starter can full combo punish at point blank range
 

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
Yup I've had to resort to the same. B2 bomb/B2 icebeam/ even B2 slide lol. There's just no way to poke with characters like that without losing in it. I tried B3 out but it seemed either too strict to be reliable for me or spacing specific to work consistently. Not too sure why it worked sometimes and not others so I resort to risky DK, jump away, or B2~stuff.
F4 xx Ice Beam can work well too. CS0 is just a completely different play style that capitalizes on opponent mistakes. I try to stay right outside my opponents furthest reaching quick normal until i have a bomb on the screen most of the match.

It'd be nice if F4 was -6
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
F4 xx Ice Beam can work well too. CS0 is just a completely different play style that capitalizes on opponent mistakes. I try to stay right outside my opponents furthest reaching quick normal until i have a bomb on the screen most of the match.

It'd be nice if F4 was -6
I use F4~EX Ice beam a lot, so when I do F4 raw it rarely gets punished in fear of being frozen and allows me to get out occasional F43 if I use it minimally. Since there's really no need for meter most of it I use in F4~EX Beam, or 50/50~EX Beam now, and whenever I need an armor escape.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
MB nut punch guarantees a mix up. I think Brawler has a meterless one too.

Ironically, I think CSZ can beat MB nut punch invincibility with his corner game. Bomb or MB bomb should catch it regardless of if we block or not.

Can you guy think of any other characters like this, who's armor options are bodied by bombs? So far, I've caught Tempest Lao, Raiden, D'Vorah, Shirai Ryu Takeda... I know there are more, there has to be. I suspect Crystal Tremor, Sun God Kotal, Quan Chi, and some others.
Raiden's superman? That doesn't sound right. I'm guessing you were just testing against shocker and his vicinity blast? Because he has 2 more armors on top of that fyi

I'd guess Balanced and Possessed Kenshi would be in this category, probably not Kenjutsu due to pushback, but maybe


This guys argument seems to be if you have infinite meter Cassie is better in the corner
1 bar for restand + 1 bar for safety really isn't that much for a character that has great pressure with staggers off B125 which leave plus, B2122+4 string, double hitting lightning iAG and one of the best characters for pressing buttons in general in the game

but even if you only have the 1 bar, I still think the guaranteed restand after landing a corner combo into a mix-up that wins you the match on hit is on point with Subs corner game punishable or not


I also think CSZ's corner game is on par with both these characters :)