General/Other Worries about GA: Arrow swapping and Traits

[Euphoric]

You don't even know how anyone or him or the meta will play! How do you know his strengths!

 

[Lyuben]

You don't even know how anyone or him or the meta will play! How do you know his strengths!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it, and when you look at the strengths of everyone else.

His retreat, his dash speed, his ability to fire arrows, cancel them all in quick succession makes him a zoner.

 

[RYX]

Well, yes. GA looks to be beastly in melee as well, but his strength will always be zoning. And he can't zone while he has his ice arrow slotted in.

He looks slow up close.

Sounds like you have a gripe that you can't mindlessly abuse stuff because the game gives them a chance to know what's going on. Ice arrows are used in combos, so use them in combos. ( ever heard of mix-ups? ) Is being a top zoning character not good enough alone?

 

[Lyuben]

He looks slow up close.

Sounds like you have a gripe that you can't mindlessly abuse stuff because the game gives them a chance to know what's going on. Ice arrows are used in combos, so use them in combos. ( ever heard of mix-ups? ) Is being a top zoning character not good enough alone?

I'd prefer if he could zone, and use an ice arrow is all. Plus I don't like your opponent reading your strategy really easily.

 

[RYX]

I'd prefer if he could zone, and use an ice arrow is all. Plus I don't like your opponent reading your strategy really easily.

Then don't let them?

There are no dash cancels in this game as far as I know. Ice arrows can probably blow up anything that whiffs considering you can aim it. Plenty of opportunities.

 

[Lyuben]

Then don't let them?

There are no dash cancels in this game as far as I know. Ice arrows can probably blow up anything that whiffs considering you can aim it. Plenty of opportunities.

Are we talking about the same thing? Ice arrow isn't a special, its an 'ammo'. If you are using an ice arrow, you can't use regular arrows. If you can't use regular arrows, you can't zone. But if you use regular arrows, you can't use ice arrows.

 

[RYX]

Are we talking about the same thing? Ice arrow isn't a special, its an 'ammo'. If you are using an ice arrow, you can't use regular arrows. If you can't use regular arrows, you can't zone. But if you use regular arrows, you can't use ice arrows.

And that translates into not whiff punishing how?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Your talking way to in depth for before the game has come out. Half the stuff you mentioned cannot be determined at this point.

For all we know GA could be the worst zoner in the game but the best whiff punisher. You dont know until you actually play the game.

 

[theend1114]

In a way. 'Spam' is the wrong word.

If you show your opponent you have the default, they know your strategy is to zone.
If you show them your fire arrow, they know you want them at range, and to catch them out since it does friendly fire.
If you show them your electric/ice arrow, they know you will try to get up close to melee or counter their advance.

Effectively, its putting a sign on your back saying "this is my strategy". I appreciate how GA relies on his arrows for his entire playstyle, but letting your opponent know doesn't seem to be very good.

This argument has gotten old and is invalid. Just because you have an ice/eletric arrow doesnt mean you cant get rid of it and zone, and just because you have fire/regular arrows in doesnt mean you cant go in for a combo. You are in charge of your stratagy and how easy it is to read. Just like meter, and other things the ice arrow is a GIFT to extend combos. You dont need it.

 

[Lyuben]

This argument has gotten old and is invalid. Just because you have an ice/eletric arrow doesnt mean you cant get rid of it and zone, and just because you have fire/regular arrows in doesnt mean you cant go in for a combo. You are in charge of your stratagy and how easy it is to read. Just like meter, and other things the ice arrow is a GIFT to extend combos. You dont need it.

True, but it would just be something like string->special

Not a very long combo. By no means the potential of the character.

 

[theend1114]

True, but it would just be something like string->special

Not a very long combo. By no means the potential of the character.

Also true, but why should he have good juggles that he doesnt have to work for, if he is such a "good zoner"?

Check and Mate

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Who says you can't swap arrows mid combo? If NRS didn't include this, I would shave off Hector's beard.

 

[CCVengeance]

I think this at least a semi-valid concern.

 

[Error]

Lyuben, crawl back into the shadows from whence you came.

 

[Juggs]

I still don't understand having any legit concerns before the game comes out. Wait until the game drops people, at the very least, damn.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Lyuben

I definitely thought you were dead

 

[Solid]

True, but it would just be something like string->special

Not a very long combo. By no means the potential of the character.

Who said the longest combos would e the best? And you and nobody else knows the true potential of all the characters. The game isn't out yet so all your concerns are pointless. Not even in MK 9 have we figured out everything yet. Stop your nonsense. On april 16th we will find out and THEN you can complain about those arrows.

 

[RiBBz22]

I have some worries I need to vent. I'm worried about the balance between people whos traits is short term power ups/invulns, like Flash, Superman and so on, vs Green Arrow and others, who have their traits as being further access to specials/combos. It seems like they should make Green Arrow be balanced to be stronger than someone like the Flash, until he uses his trait. I don't think its easy to balance a character trait that is a power up, vs a one that is part of your general move list.

Second, his arrows need to be swapped in order to use. This effectively rules out starting with regular arrows, and going into an ice arrow for your combos. It also means your opponent will read you VERY easily.

See an ice arrow? Hes only got one and he is trying to combo.
See a fire arrow? Hes trying to damage you.
See no arrow? Hes trying to zone.

Just by judging the arrow on your back your opponents will tell what you want to do, since you won't be able to swap arrows mid combo.

If I could go from: spamming normal arrows, get in on someone, use ice arrow and combo, then I'd be happy. But right now, you can't spam normal arrows and combo into an ice arrow easily at all.

Seems to be fairly limited. I hope they at least hide the colour of your arrows, then again, the inputs for the fire arrow are a giveaway, it looks like teabagging.

The way I see it you will never be using the ice arrow anyways unless you hit confirm it into a combo because it is wayyyyyy too slow to just throw out there. Plus your ability to cancel arrows kind of hampers the ability of your opponent to really get a ton of information from it just by going off which one you are using.

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

Karried wins this thread... I was about to rip into this until I saw all his posts.... not much left to be said... close this bitch down

 

[Lyuben]

The way I see it you will never be using the ice arrow anyways unless you hit confirm it into a combo because it is wayyyyyy too slow to just throw out there. Plus your ability to cancel arrows kind of hampers the ability of your opponent to really get a ton of information from it just by going off which one you are using.

I understand that, ice arrows purpose is making long combos, so of course you need to hit confirm. My problem is that you can't start a combo with one arrow, and swap while in combo.

 

[trufenix]

I understand that, ice arrows purpose is making long combos, so of course you need to hit confirm. My problem is that you can't start a combo with one arrow, and swap while in combo.

I think you're misunderstanding the role of the arrows. They don't have defined roles that you can just whip out as the match progresses, you're just supposed to make a conscious decision about your strategy and then play around it. Similar to Valentine's poison vials in Skullgirls or Iron Fist's power ups in Marvel.

By loading an arrow, you sacrifice GA's natural ability to harass but you still have at least 3 primo zoning stools (step back shot, anti air shot, slide) and super fast dash speed to sucker the enemy into falling for your special arrow plan or you can just chip them cause they're gonna sit back and wait for you to waste the arrow.

The second you load the ice arrow it tips your hand, yes, but it also forces the opponents hand cause now they have to try and make you burn it, which will make your other options (even walk up throw) that much more potent.

 

[Lyuben]

I think you're misunderstanding the role of the arrows. They don't have defined roles that you can just whip out as the match progresses, you're just supposed to make a conscious decision about your strategy and then play around it. Similar to Valentine's poison vials in Skullgirls or Iron Fist's power ups in Marvel.

By loading an arrow, you sacrifice GA's natural ability to harass but you still have at least 3 primo zoning stools (step back shot, anti air shot, slide) and super fast dash speed to sucker the enemy into falling for your special arrow plan or you can just chip them cause they're gonna sit back and wait for you to waste the arrow.

The second you load the ice arrow it tips your hand, yes, but it also forces the opponents hand cause now they have to try and make you burn it, which will make your other options (even walk up throw) that much more potent.

Didn't really think of that, it allows for mind games on your end as well.

I'm hoping that the swap is quick enough so that if you see your opponent do something like power up, or use a black adam projectile immunity and start jumping toward you, you can do a quick swap and meet them head on.

 

[RiBBz22]

I understand that, ice arrows purpose is making long combos, so of course you need to hit confirm. My problem is that you can't start a combo with one arrow, and swap while in combo.

Why can't you? Aren't the arrows just different directional inputs and the trait button? I didn't think the directional input and the trait button just switched the arrow type.

 

[Lyuben]

Why can't you? Aren't the arrows just different directional inputs and the trait button? I didn't think the directional input and the trait button just switched the arrow type.

You need to do a specific animation in order to swap arrows. If you are in the middle of a combo, you can't do that animation unless you plan on dropping that combo.

 

[Euphoric]

Electric arrows increase stun state, maybe use them to swap and combo.