General/Other - Pyromancer Why Tanya has potential BEST zoning in new Meta of the game.

[GLoRToR]

Pyromancer is okay but you're up-playing her in my opinion.
Even if she just goes 5-5 with every other zoner, that still doesn't make her all that great.
Her other tools are pretty mediocre.

 

[B. Shazzy]

https://twitter.com/revetleafing/status/791719123021549568

qAlso do you have ps4? I would be glad to do a set with you.

lul

i'll play you gimme the digits

 

[xKhaoTik]

Lol you can't say Tanya beats Kitana when you lost to a Kitana who didn't even play the MU right.


I'm speaking solely on RS. There is absolutely NO way Tanya wins that.


Zoning: both are great zoners, yes, but Kitana's zoning is far more detrimental than Tanya's. Both of us can't jump but Kitana's zoning shuts down your mobility hard. There is no running, jumping or teleporting against Kitana at all or you lose AT LEAST 35%. Yea Tanya's fireballs do more damage, way more plus on hit and have all types of arcs, but Kitana's fans are faster, recovers quicker and lead to way more destruction. If both were to hit at the same time, Tanya does win the trade

Anti Zoning: all Tanya has to anti zone is fireball, mainly ex fireball. Good uses, don't get me wrong, but kitana has answers for your zoning AND Anti zoning. Reflect is a godsend in this MU. I don't think you realize how good that move is against Pyro. I can reflect your fireball and even if you did ex fireball to counter that, my reflect STILL reflects that. Not only that, ex iaAss punishes ANY regular fireball ON REACTION. Even if Kitana was late on the punish, mostly like she did it from full screen, meaning its safe and she got in for free. Ex Lift catches fireballs, teleport, jumps, etc. Kitana's anti zoning far surpasses Tanya's.

Damage: is this even debatable? lol. Tanya does very poor damage, even with shroud. Even with a bar and shroud, Pyro's most practical combos don't even add up to what Kitana does meterlessly. Kitana with a bar is something Tanya wishes she can do.

Rushdown: Both are pretty good upclose and Tanya has the better armor (ex shroud). Both have good mixups but Tanya's lead to combos while Kitana's OH is a splat. Both have good staggers but Tanya has faster normals. Kitana has better pokes tho, better range and better footsies. I would say they are about the same in this department

Life lead: Both can hold a life lead against each other, but it so much easier for Kitana to hold one or even gain one. Tanya can't really sit on a life lead against RS based on all the tools it has.


So as you can see, RS clearly has an advantage. Idc who you've beaten. MUs are based on tools, not on who you've beaten. I've beaten plenty of GMs and HQTs and I dont go around parading Kitana wins. All that means is that you're simply the better player.

 

[Rude]

@Vak Phoenix

 

[RevetLeafing]

She's definitely a top zoner but I think kitana and Quan are better zoners. They can get full combos from full screen and control all aspects of the screen as well.

Also think Pretty Lady might be 5-5 with Pyro. Always thought that mu was fun

Pretty Lady vs Pyromancer is not 5-5 whatso ever. Tanya does what he does but wayyy better, with shroud teleports and obsorbing projecrtiles.

 

[RevetLeafing]

She's definitely a top zoner but I think kitana and Quan are better zoners. They can get full combos from full screen and control all aspects of the screen as well.

Also think Pretty Lady might be 5-5 with Pyro. Always thought that mu was fun

And ALso, Tanya can combo from full screen with fireball

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Lol you can't say Tanya beats Kitana when you lost to a Kitana who didn't even play the MU right.


I'm speaking solely on RS. There is absolutely NO way Tanya wins that.


Zoning: both are great zoners, yes, but Kitana's zoning is far more detrimental than Tanya's. Both of us can't jump but Kitana's zoning shuts down your mobility hard. There is no running, jumping or teleporting against Kitana at all or you lose AT LEAST 35%. Yea Tanya's fireballs do more damage, way more plus on hit and have all types of arcs, but Kitana's fans really faster, recovers quicker and lead to way more destruction. If both were to hit at the same time, Tanya does win the trade

Anti Zoning: all Tanya has to anti zoner is fireball, mainly ex fireball. Good uses, don't get me wrong, but kitana has answers for your zoning AND Anti zoning. Reflect is a godsend in this MU. I don't think you realize how good that move is against Pyro. I can reflect your fireball and even if you did ex fireball to counter that, my reflect STILL reflects that. Not only that, ex iaAss punishes ANY regular fireball ON REACTION. Even if Kitana was late on the punish, mostly like she did it from full screen, meaning its safe and she got in for free. Ex Lift catches fireballs, teleport, jumps, etc. Kitana's anti zoning far surpasses Tanya's.

Damage: is this even debatable? lol. Tanya does very poor damage, even with shroud. Even with a bar and shroud, Pyro's most practical combos don't even add up to what Kitana does meterlessly. Kitana with a bar is something Tanya wishes she can do.

Rushdown: Both are pretty good upclose and Tanya has the better armor (ex shroud). Both have good mixups but Tanya's lead to combos while Kitana's OH is a splat. Both have good staggers but Tanya has faster normals. Kitana has better pokes tho, better range and better footsies. I would say they are about the same in this department

Life lead: Both can hold a life lead against each other, but it so much easier for Kitana to hold one or even gain one. Tanya can't really sit on a life lead against RS based on all the tools it has.


So as you can see, RS clearly has an advantage. Idc who you've beaten. MUs are based on tools, not on who you've beaten. I've beaten plenty of GMs and HQTs and I dont go around parading Kitana wins. All that means is that you're simply the better player.

Shhh. Don't engage

 

[B. Shazzy]

Lol you can't say Tanya beats Kitana when you lost to a Kitana who didn't even play the MU right.


I'm speaking solely on RS. There is absolutely NO way Tanya wins that.


Zoning: both are great zoners, yes, but Kitana's zoning is far more detrimental than Tanya's. Both of us can't jump but Kitana's zoning shuts down your mobility hard. There is no running, jumping or teleporting against Kitana at all or you lose AT LEAST 35%. Yea Tanya's fireballs do more damage, way more plus on hit and have all types of arcs, but Kitana's fans really faster, recovers quicker and lead to way more destruction. If both were to hit at the same time, Tanya does win the trade

Anti Zoning: all Tanya has to anti zoner is fireball, mainly ex fireball. Good uses, don't get me wrong, but kitana has answers for your zoning AND Anti zoning. Reflect is a godsend in this MU. I don't think you realize how good that move is against Pyro. I can reflect your fireball and even if you did ex fireball to counter that, my reflect STILL reflects that. Not only that, ex iaAss punishes ANY regular fireball ON REACTION. Even if Kitana was late on the punish, mostly like she did it from full screen, meaning its safe and she got in for free. Ex Lift catches fireballs, teleport, jumps, etc. Kitana's anti zoning far surpasses Tanya's.

Damage: is this even debatable? lol. Tanya does very poor damage, even with shroud. Even with a bar and shroud, Pyro's most practical combos don't even add up to what Kitana does meterlessly. Kitana with a bar is something Tanya wishes she can do.

Rushdown: Both are pretty good upclose and Tanya has the better armor (ex shroud). Both have good mixups but Tanya's lead to combos while Kitana's OH is a splat. Both have good staggers but Tanya has faster normals. Kitana has better pokes tho, better range and better footsies. I would say they are about the same in this department

Life lead: Both can hold a life lead against each other, but it so much easier for Kitana to hold one or even gain one. Tanya can't really sit on a life lead against RS based on all the tools it has.


So as you can see, RS clearly has an advantage. Idc who you've beaten. MUs are based on tools, not on who you've beaten. I've beaten plenty of GMs and HQTs and I dont go around parading Kitana wins. All that means is that you're simply the better player.

dont worry catana bum i got this lul

 

[Invincible Salads]

how does that 36% damage glitch work exactly, i keep hearing about it but never see it.

don't see how she would beat shinnok tho.

 

[RevetLeafing]

Pyromancer is okay but you're up-playing her in my opinion.
Even if she just goes 5-5 with every other zoner, that still doesn't make her all that great.
Her other tools are pretty mediocre.

Btter to upplay than downplay. Even though I don't consider myself upplaying at all. I have my thoughts on Tanya, as you have yours. Yeah if anyone had a slight advantage to zoning her it would be sorceror quan chi

 

[CompleteMadness]

Lol you can't say Tanya beats Kitana when you lost to a Kitana who didn't even play the MU right.


I'm speaking solely on RS. There is absolutely NO way Tanya wins that.


Zoning: both are great zoners, yes, but Kitana's zoning is far more detrimental than Tanya's. Both of us can't jump but Kitana's zoning shuts down your mobility hard. There is no running, jumping or teleporting against Kitana at all or you lose AT LEAST 35%. Yea Tanya's fireballs do more damage, way more plus on hit and have all types of arcs, but Kitana's fans are faster, recovers quicker and lead to way more destruction. If both were to hit at the same time, Tanya does win the trade

Anti Zoning: all Tanya has to anti zone is fireball, mainly ex fireball. Good uses, don't get me wrong, but kitana has answers for your zoning AND Anti zoning. Reflect is a godsend in this MU. I don't think you realize how good that move is against Pyro. I can reflect your fireball and even if you did ex fireball to counter that, my reflect STILL reflects that. Not only that, ex iaAss punishes ANY regular fireball ON REACTION. Even if Kitana was late on the punish, mostly like she did it from full screen, meaning its safe and she got in for free. Ex Lift catches fireballs, teleport, jumps, etc. Kitana's anti zoning far surpasses Tanya's.

Damage: is this even debatable? lol. Tanya does very poor damage, even with shroud. Even with a bar and shroud, Pyro's most practical combos don't even add up to what Kitana does meterlessly. Kitana with a bar is something Tanya wishes she can do.

Rushdown: Both are pretty good upclose and Tanya has the better armor (ex shroud). Both have good mixups but Tanya's lead to combos while Kitana's OH is a splat. Both have good staggers but Tanya has faster normals. Kitana has better pokes tho, better range and better footsies. I would say they are about the same in this department

Life lead: Both can hold a life lead against each other, but it so much easier for Kitana to hold one or even gain one. Tanya can't really sit on a life lead against RS based on all the tools it has.


So as you can see, RS clearly has an advantage. Idc who you've beaten. MUs are based on tools, not on who you've beaten. I've beaten plenty of GMs and HQTs and I dont go around parading Kitana wins. All that means is that you're simply the better player.

Yeah thats what I'm saying. Tanya only beats mournful but not royalstorm/assassin. Tany loses all mobility against rs/ass

 

[xKhaoTik]

Yeah thats what I'm saying. Tanya only beats mournful but not royalstorm/assassin. Tany loses all mobility against rs/ass

I actually hate Assassin in that MU lol. Granted she still has the fans and the damage, I'd MUCH rather RS for the Anti zoning and full screen presence. I played @Vak Phoenix and I did so much better with RS than Assassin. I got bopped using mournful lol

 

[CompleteMadness]

I actually hate Assassin in that MU lol. Granted she still has the fans and the damage, I'd MUCH rather RS for the Anti zoning and full screen presence. I played @Vak Phoenix and I did so much better with RS than Assassin. I got bopped using mournful lol

Yeah i agree with OP on the things he said just didn't agree with the mu numbers for tanya vs kitana. Needs to be tweaked. She handles mournful easy and thats it.

 

[RevetLeafing]

Lol you can't say Tanya beats Kitana when you lost to a Kitana who didn't even play the MU right.


I'm speaking solely on RS. There is absolutely NO way Tanya wins that.


Zoning: both are great zoners, yes, but Kitana's zoning is far more detrimental than Tanya's. Both of us can't jump but Kitana's zoning shuts down your mobility hard. There is no running, jumping or teleporting against Kitana at all or you lose AT LEAST 35%. Yea Tanya's fireballs do more damage, way more plus on hit and have all types of arcs, but Kitana's fans are faster, recovers quicker and lead to way more destruction. If both were to hit at the same time, Tanya does win the trade

Anti Zoning: all Tanya has to anti zone is fireball, mainly ex fireball. Good uses, don't get me wrong, but kitana has answers for your zoning AND Anti zoning. Reflect is a godsend in this MU. I don't think you realize how good that move is against Pyro. I can reflect your fireball and even if you did ex fireball to counter that, my reflect STILL reflects that. Not only that, ex iaAss punishes ANY regular fireball ON REACTION. Even if Kitana was late on the punish, mostly like she did it from full screen, meaning its safe and she got in for free. Ex Lift catches fireballs, teleport, jumps, etc. Kitana's anti zoning far surpasses Tanya's.

Damage: is this even debatable? lol. Tanya does very poor damage, even with shroud. Even with a bar and shroud, Pyro's most practical combos don't even add up to what Kitana does meterlessly. Kitana with a bar is something Tanya wishes she can do.

Rushdown: Both are pretty good upclose and Tanya has the better armor (ex shroud). Both have good mixups but Tanya's lead to combos while Kitana's OH is a splat. Both have good staggers but Tanya has faster normals. Kitana has better pokes tho, better range and better footsies. I would say they are about the same in this department

Life lead: Both can hold a life lead against each other, but it so much easier for Kitana to hold one or even gain one. Tanya can't really sit on a life lead against RS based on all the tools it has.


So as you can see, RS clearly has an advantage. Idc who you've beaten. MUs are based on tools, not on who you've beaten. I've beaten plenty of GMs and HQTs and I dont go around parading Kitana wins. All that means is that you're simply the better player.

Syas "Doesn't matter who you've beaten it is based on toold" , mentions my fight vs Dragon 2-3 lmao good one.. Anyways.

Zoning: When it comes to zoning Tanya takes the edge when fighting Kitana (Any variation) Her little reflect that she has only gets her so far and it's scary to use it because of Pyro's insane damage. Shrouded makes it even scarier for Kitana to throw stuff at Tanya, all she can hope to do is try to jump towards her because she knows she won't win the zoning trades. Kitana's is faster and yes can be converted from full screen, but you have to keep in mind the hit advantage the fireballs have, if you hit me with a fan, and i'm jumping, the fireball hit advantage is to great, you won't be able to travel fully across screen , especially with stamina nerf combo will be limited.

Anti Zoning This is one of those obvious things that Kitana has more than Tanya. A reflect , which can be whiff punsihed from full screen, Tanya's ex fireball is very fast and hits and can counter projectiles ON REACTION, however Kitana takes the edge off of Anti ZOning

Damage, Oh boy,,, https://twitter.com/revetleafing/status/792476960286924800 Tanya has damage, please stop listening to TYM when it come to Tanya okay, please i'm begging you, Tanya's damage is very great and fireballs doing 8% damage immediately makes Kitana think if she even wants to zone back, this is why Kitana's mainly just want to get in and not stay back, which is what Kitana is all about stay ing back. Pyro shroud now does 10%, -4 on block, and sooo much hit advantage. Canceling low, you can get one bar 40% basically, and STILL STAY SHROUDED, this means you have to eaither wakeup or hold more 50/50's

Rushdown: This isn't very debatable because Tanya has the teleports and safe mids and fast advancing mids also, Also due to hit advantage and block stun on fireballs, it makes it easier for tanya to decide if she wants to get in or not, or to just continue zoning. Kitana has the square wave but that's punishable on block so it's kinday risky to use, also Tanya's SPlat over head (the drill) is very very good, it's so fast that it makes you confused for a second as to what you should do, it;s barely punishable, and Kitana has her 04 splat overhead which is very good. Tanya wins as far as rushdown

 

[RevetLeafing]

dont worry catana bum i got this lul

yungmonster12. I'll play you whever you're free

 

[xKhaoTik]

Syas "Doesn't matter who you've beaten it is based on toold" , mentions my fight vs Dragon 2-3 lmao good one.. Anyways.

The point is you're going around saying Tanya does this and that to Kitana yet you lost to someone who didn't even play the MU right. The sad part is you were playing it right and still lost. You lose all credibility to even comment on the matter after that.


You're also the only Tanya main I've ever heard of that thinks Tanya actually wins. This has been a winning MU for Kitana since like last year lol and like 95% of people agree.

Not to mention that Kitana got buffed A LOT this patch, while Tanya barely got anything.


Come on man this isn't a battle you'll win lol

 

[Invincible Salads]

how does the massive damage glitch work?

 

[RevetLeafing]

The point is you're going around saying Tanya does this and that to Kitana yet you lost to someone who didn't even play the MU right. The sad part is you were playing it right and still lost. You lose all credibility to even comment on the matter after that.


You're also the only Tanya main I've ever heard of that thinks Tanya actually wins. This has been a winning MU for Kitana since like last year lol and like 95% of people agree.

Not to mention that Kitana got buffed A LOT this patch, while Tanya barely got anything.


Come on man this isn't a battle you'll win lol

I'm going around and saying Tanya does this and that because she does and i've experienced it with the best Kitana's being Dragon and Atai. Kepp in mind that I lost to dragon because of b1 xray. In a ft3.. not ft10 not ft20..... ft3... ft3....ft3... Anyways, this isn't a battle i'll win again? You've yet to play my Tanya lmao, if you are sooo shook by my thoughts against this mu, then you could easily back it up, prove me wrong, not in a ft3, a ft10 or 20 or whatever you want. Idc that I lost to DRAGON'S Kitana. It was 2-3 In a mu, and he use to use that character, lmao. What do you mean he wasn't playing it right, actually, actually, do you play it right?? Lmao if so, you've yet to proven it, all talk on tym, but haven't played me yet. I just don't get it if you are SOO sure that Kitana b eats this why haven't you done anything to probe me wrong. You want to go off of my 2-3 against dragon?? Lmao Welll... okay

 

[RevetLeafing]

how does the massive damage glitch work?

Both fireballs impact at the same time

This does 36% now though

 

[xKhaoTik]

Damage, Oh boy,,, https://twitter.com/revetleafing/status/792476960286924800

This was swag lol I'll give you that. It still doesn't measure to what Kitana does in the corner. Assassin easily shits on that meterlessly and RS only does 2% less than what you did for a bar meterlessly. Hell even mournful does more damage than that in the corner lol

 

[RevetLeafing]

This was swag lol I'll give you that. It still doesn't measure to what Kitana does in the corner. Assassin easily shits on that meterlessly and RS only does 2% less than what you did for a bar meterlessly. Hell even mournful does more damage than that in the corner lol

Okay, Kitana gets a little 2% more damage... but the opponent stays shrouded so doesn't that make up for kitana's 2%?? You still have to fear the chip damage or 50/50 again

 

[xKhaoTik]

I'm going around and saying Tanya does this and that because she does and i've experienced it with the best Kitana's being Dragon and Atai. Kepp in mind that I lost to dragon because of b1 xray. In a ft3.. not ft10 not ft20..... ft3... ft3....ft3... Anyways, this isn't a battle i'll win again? You've yet to play my Tanya lmao, if you are sooo shook by my thoughts against this mu, then you could easily back it up, prove me wrong, not in a ft3, a ft10 or 20 or whatever you want. Idc that I lost to DRAGON'S Kitana. It was 2-3 In a mu, and he use to use that character, lmao. What do you mean he wasn't playing it right, actually, actually, do you play it right?? Lmao if so, you've yet to proven it, all talk on tym, but haven't played me yet. I just don't get it if you are SOO sure that Kitana b eats this why haven't you done anything to probe me wrong. You want to go off of my 2-3 against dragon?? Lmao Welll... okay

Bruh dragon didn't even know what a reflect was til later on in the match. He's rushing you down instead on zoning. Letting you teleport like crazy. NO EX LIFT. And you still lost


We can play it's not a problem to me lol.

 

[YUZU_RZA]

For tremor I would put

Pyro - metallic --> 8-2
Pyro - Crystalline --> 6.5-3.5
Pyro - Aftershock --> 6-4

 

[xKhaoTik]

Okay, Kitana gets a little 2% more damage... but the opponent stays shrouded so doesn't that make up for kitana's 2%?? You still have to fear the chip damage or 50/50 again

OK and Kitana stays sharpened so you still have to fear chip or OH/Low. What's your point ?

 

[snort]

Lol at that mu chart. I still don't know why people even try with them.