Why is Kabal's FB better than everyone eles's?

[Braindead]

if you’re gonna be an armchair critic, at least be an armchair critic correctly

I'm happy you're bringing this back.

 

[MrMiketastic]

Every time I hear or read it, it's like Handsome Jack from Borderlands with hookswords and a cooler mask.

That's not bad. Everytime I hear it, Fortnite tries to install itself on my PS4. Life's hard man.

 

[Krankk]

Does anyone remember Supermans super move in Injustice 1? Shit was like 3 frames or something: "Oh, you pressed a button? Okay, I win!"

I remember someone winning a Grand Finals of a big tournament, mostly because of the super.
I hope we won't have to go through the same with Kabal and his fatal blow.

 

[BlackShade]

It's easy to say that we should reserve judgment for release, but there are some major flaws with that argument:

1. Knowing it's the beta doesn't eliminate the value of critical thought and discussion,
2. Discussing it now might conceivably inspire pre-release changes that would keep Kabal from dominating the first generation of the game (including its first EVO and most important advertisement opportunity), and
3. It's completely rational to be suspicious of Kabal being OP given his history in the series.

Let's just think about what Kabal has already in the game, and will have at release unless they literally eliminate moves from his toolkit:
+Decent combos and respectable damage meterless, with one bar, and with two bars
+Decent zoning, with high, low, and aerial projectiles
+Full-screen pressure and projectile combo confirms
+Full combos that don't launch and thus can't be escaped
+Reach and footsies
+Strings that are difficult to punish and/or can be made safe
+Minimal gaps in his strings for flawless block
+Restand + pressure
+Krushing blows that are mostly easy to use and that have high value on use
+A full-screen fatal blow that changes the entire pace of the match no matter what else is happening

What other characters would you expect to have ALL of that?
What could NRS realistically do between now and release that would make THAT toolkit balanced with a diverse roster of characters, all the rest of whom so far seem to have significant weaknesses built into their design?
Is it really worth "reserving judgment" now at the risk of the world seeing a Top 8 EVO full of Kabal mirrors AGAIN?

He doesn't have it all. He is missing an overhead and a low starter

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

NRS should make it -834750834503845348 on block

 

[Evil Canadian]

Guys, it's a Beta. He will NOT be overperforming in the end product.

Of course he will overperform in the end product he is Kabal. Betting against Kabal being top tier in a MK game is a fools bet.

 

[Braindead]

NRS should make it -834750834503845348 on block

That's more than 440 million years, almost a tenth of earth's current age.

The sun is expected to die after about 11 of those recovery frames

 

[GLoRToR]

Of course he will overperform in the end product he is Kabal. Betting against Kabal being top tier in a MK game is a fools bet.

I mean, I think they learned from their past mistakes this time.

 

[MrMiketastic]

It's easy to say that we should reserve judgment for release, but there are some major flaws with that argument:

1. Knowing it's the beta doesn't eliminate the value of critical thought and discussion,
2. Discussing it now might conceivably inspire pre-release changes that would keep Kabal from dominating the first generation of the game (including its first EVO and most important advertisement opportunity), and
3. It's completely rational to be suspicious of Kabal being OP given his history in the series.

Let's just think about what Kabal has already in the game, and will have at release unless they literally eliminate moves from his toolkit:
+Decent combos and respectable damage meterless, with one bar, and with two bars
+Decent zoning, with high, low, and aerial projectiles
+Full-screen pressure and projectile combo confirms
+Full combos that don't launch and thus can't be escaped
+Reach and footsies
+Strings that are difficult to punish and/or can be made safe
+Minimal gaps in his strings for flawless block
+Restand + pressure
+Krushing blows that are mostly easy to use and that have high value on use
+A full-screen fatal blow that changes the entire pace of the match no matter what else is happening

What other characters would you expect to have ALL of that?
What could NRS realistically do between now and release that would make THAT toolkit balanced with a diverse roster of characters, all the rest of whom so far seem to have significant weaknesses built into their design?
Is it really worth "reserving judgment" now at the risk of the world seeing a Top 8 EVO full of Kabal mirrors AGAIN?

I like this. And at the same time too, I'm also open to the possibility that Kabal will get the Scorpion treatment from the MK9 beta to full game. Does anybody remember how crazy that Scorpion was? :O

Aside from good tools, another make or break variable here is also the variations they'll be giving him when the game comes out.

For the record, I really do wanna learn and pick up Kabal (maybe as a pocket). But I'd really wanna see him get properly balanced first.

 

[_CHINOCUDEIRO_]

That's more than 440 million years, almost a tenth of earth's current age.

The sun is expected to die after about 11 of those recovery frames

I mean, you sould have time to punish this move until MK12 if you want

 

[Braindead]

I mean, you sould have time to punish this move until MK12 if you want

I'd still miss the punish

 

[SaltShaker]

I mean, I think they learned from their past mistakes this time.

I thought that too until I saw Kabal in the beta. Now I need to be convinced on release.

 

[GLoRToR]

I thought that too until I saw Kabal in the beta. Now I need to be convinced on release.

The way I see it, they made him as powerful as possible in the beta to see what definitely needs nerfing. He will still be godlike in the end product.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think kabals fatal blow is the only one that's punishable if your back is to the corner when he does it. I haven't done real testing but I'm pretty sure I got a few punishes on it because it didnt push him as far away.

Or I'm wrong and the dude was just mashing after I blocked his fatal blow. Dont recall a counter hit though.

 

[Evil Canadian]

I mean, I think they learned from their past mistakes this time.

when in the world do video game companies learn from past mistakes? That's wishful thinking if I ever saw it.

 

[Juggs]

It’s definitely the best out of the 5 Beta characters. I think I saw where @UltraDavid was comparing it to Seth’s ultra in SF4 and that’s pretty accurate.

I think a better comparison is it’s like Kabal’s UMK3 spin. Imagine Kabal in MK11 always having access to his Fatal Blow, it being free, and being able to use it infinitely. That’s Kabal in UMK3, lmaoo

 

[GLoRToR]

It’s definitely the best out of the 5 Beta characters. I think I saw where @UltraDavid was comparing it to Seth’s ultra in SF4 and that’s pretty accurate.

I think a better comparison is it’s like Kabal’s UMK3 spin. Imagine Kabal in MK11 always having access to his Fatal Blow, it being free, and being able to use it infinitely. That’s Kabal in UMK3, lmaoo

Hitconfirm it off of d4 for 70% damage

 

[t3kwytch3r]

What other characters would you expect to have ALL of that?
What could NRS realistically do between now and release that would make THAT toolkit balanced with a diverse roster of characters, all the rest of whom so far seem to have significant weaknesses built into their design?
Is it really worth "reserving judgment" now at the risk of the world seeing a Top 8 EVO full of Kabal mirrors AGAIN?

I personally think Kabals plain down air saw should be made an equippable ability. Would force choices between heavy combo ability or strong zoning options

 

[Lokheit]

Yeah, it probably will get toned down.

That said, something positive about his FB is that it gives a tool the character normally doesn't have, which is something I'd like to see in every FB.

In MKX for example Kitana with a full bar was a completly different character as she had a poke-fast OH leading to 30+ out of anything, so you had to constantly respect that.

In MK11 we're seeing some stuff like Kabal getting a teleport to punish projectiles, Johnny getting a run cancel, Jax 100% charging his fists, Baraka setting his banner, etc...

IMO having access to FB should mean that any character has something extra, not just the opportunity to deal big damage.

 

[ArcticTabasco]

I think Kabal's definitely the best out of the beta 5, but definitely not broken or anything as long as they adjust the frames & damage (which they will, fingers crossed). But going by what we've got to play, him accessing his fatal is a hard stop to any momentum the opponent might have. If you're full screen away and Kabal has FB? Damn, better hope the Kabal gets impatient.

Also, I think it's really weird that Kabal has nomad dash that leads to a full combo without meter, but Scorpion's spear has to meter burn to do that and still scales a whole lot. Like, neither design in itself (to rquire/not require meter) is a bad one IMO, but for one character to have the ability to combo without meter and for the other to not is really weird.

 

[Charybdis]

Yeah, it probably will get toned down.

That said, something positive about his FB is that it gives a tool the character normally doesn't have, which is something I'd like to see in every FB.

In MKX for example Kitana with a full bar was a completly different character as she had a poke-fast OH leading to 30+ out of anything, so you had to constantly respect that.

In MK11 we're seeing some stuff like Kabal getting a teleport to punish projectiles, Johnny getting a run cancel, Jax 100% charging his fists, Baraka setting his banner, etc...

IMO having access to FB should mean that any character has something extra, not just the opportunity to deal big damage.

Agreed but if you're going to give a character a 32% insta-punish from full screen, more or less safe on block, that recharges every few seconds, that shuts down the entire game, that character should have holes elsewhere in their game.

 

[John Grizzly]

Here's the best part - if you somehow read and block it, you get to deal with it all over again in 6 seconds!

Kabal's FB is super strong, but it is what it is. My main gripe with FB's has been and will continue to be the fact that if you whiff one or simply have it blocked, you get it back in seconds. That makes no sense, especially because some of them are safe. I really don't want to see these long cut scenes every single match.

 

[Tony at Home]

His FB is fucked up.

What's funny is it'd still be fucked up if it wasn't so safe with that huge pushback on block. It's just added insult to injury

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Here's the best part - if you somehow read and block it, you get to deal with it all over again in 6 seconds!

Kabal's FB is super strong, but it is what it is. My main gripe with FB's has been and will continue to be the fact that if you whiff one or simply have it blocked, you get it back in seconds. That makes no sense, especially because some of them are safe. I really don't want to see these long cut scenes every single match.

Maybe they should cost meter to use? Don't have all your meter? Can't reuse your FB

 

[esc1]

His jumping hook has stupid range, best fb/fatal blow, and big combos.. there is no downfall or weakness in the character