Question - Jason Voorhees Why Does Jason Need Nerfs?

[Skedar70]

Some notable players think its in jason's favor though. Mileena is counter picked alot by Jason. But we can agree to disagree.

I don't base my opinion on what other people say I base it on what I see.
Besides, Fox and Saltface are the only ones I have heard mention that Jason can contest with her. That doesn't mean he wins the match up.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Even as Unstoppable Jason can struggle against all of these characters:
-Gunslinger
-Imposter/Bone Shaper
-Stunt Double/A-List
-Hish-Qu-Ten
-Acidic/Tarkaten/(Konjurer?)
-Cutthroat
-Swarm Queen
-Shirai Ryu
-Piercing/Ravenous/Ethereal
-Demolition
-Dragon's Fire/Flame Fist
-Brawler/Hollywood
-Mystic

I could list more but the trend here is all of these characters can zone/control space really well, coupled with really good up close pressure of their own. Give Jason a projectile in Slasher? You take away his armor break. Give him armor break? You take away his projectile. And in Relentless Jason does have a teleport to get in but its suuuper unsafe and you also don't have that armor break OR projecticle. He can reverse controls but that's also super unsafe unless he spends the bar to make it safer. Once Jason gets in, yes, he's very strong. But trying to get in with no form of teleports or a means of counterzoning to some degree is a whole other ball park and takes much patience, practice, and reads.

I wasn t planning on posting here then I saw this jason beats Takeda YO

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Can we seriously have logic in here for a second? Nobody is saying KILL JASON (impossible he always comes back anyways) or AHHH MAKE HIM WORSE THAN UNBREAKABLE.

To the people downplaying the D1. If you honestly think characters that don't have fast enough pokes to get out of this is okay then idk what to say to you.

So let's say Jason has you in the corner. Backdash? Can't. Poke back? Too slow. ARMOR??? First of all. "Spend a bar to get out of my poking spam" lmao. Do you realize how absurd that sounds? Oh and what if they don't have meter? What if armor breaking is activated?

You know what else you need to take into consideration? Let's say you're tremor. You're just holding all these D1's expecting more right? Oh well too bad. Jason just went into free pressure with B1 (or whatever string you use in slasher) OR EVEN BETTER!! D1 TICK THROW. Awesome.

Let me go back to my backdash point actually. Listen to how dumb this sounds. Just listen. "Backdash to get out of my pokes" LMAO. You know there's this thing called stamina in the game. Backdash drains half your stamina. It's an important resource in this game. Run combos, cancels, mobility, you need FULL STAMINA TO BREAK!!

Make the D1 -4 or 5. Jesus lol

 

[STRYKIE]

I don't play Jason so I'm not trying to fuel anyone's agenda here but the recovery on the bear hug command grab actually had already been nerfed (used to be 12 recovery frames IIRC?). It's entirely possibly that NRS WANT it to have relatively quick recovery.

Then again, none of that stopped people from wanting Erron's command grab nerfed way back when.

There's a point where patch fishing becomes nothing more than exactly that.

This all being said, his D1 however should absolutely be made more negative on block in this supposed patch though.

 

[Pan1cMode]

No one is going to win a match doing d1 over and over.

Also, you mean to tell me that neither one of those characters can backdash or time a throw to throw the poke?

In MKX, you can throw poke attempts if timed correctly. Tremor has an extended throw range.

Can you provide video proof of this block infinite that can't be armored/backdashed/thrown?

Not at home but will do.

 

[God Confirm]

super suspect. e.g you got demolition and brawler as having that much better space control than jason that it means he struggles in the match up? You got nearly 2/3's the cast as struggling match ups for jason here. TBH this just looks like a list of characters that you as a player struggle against, learn to separate the two, not everything is the characters fault and its possible you arent as good as you think you are or even as good as your opponents

i can respect that

 

[hkriderz]

I don't play Jason so I'm not trying to fuel anyone's agenda here but the recovery on the bear hug command grab actually had already been nerfed (used to be 12 recovery frames IIRC?). It's entirely possibly that NRS WANT it to have relatively quick recovery.

Then again, none of that stopped people from wanting Erron's command grab nerfed way back when.

There's a point where patch fishing becomes nothing more than exactly that.

This all being said, his D1 however should absolutely be made more negative on block in this supposed patch though.

12 frames? Jesus that's stupid. But 17 is not much different imo. Sonya's divekick is a mere 13 frames and it's the most complained about thing about her. Jason's grab is basically safe unless you make a godlike read and instant quan like NJP him or armor. Keep in mind that you can duck errons grab and you can't jason's.

d1 is no question.

 

[TheGangstaFace]

Btw for everyone's information. Tremor in particular has to hold 5 Jason D1's.

Git Gud.

Learn the mu skrub.

 

[God Confirm]

No one is going to win a match doing d1 over and over.

Also, you mean to tell me that neither one of those characters can backdash or time a throw to throw the poke?

In MKX, you can throw poke attempts if timed correctly. Tremor has an extended throw range.

Can you provide video proof of this block infinite that can't be armored/backdashed/thrown?

well, when you are +2, and the next d1 is hitting in 6 frames, the answer to your question is as simple as asking yourself how many characters have 7 frame throws

 

[Pan1cMode]

well, when you are +2, and the next d1 is hitting in 6 frames, the answer to your question is as simple as asking yourself how many characters have 7 frame throws

He's -2, you'd need a 9 frame throw.

Unfortunately from my memory of testing grabs don't work

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

Btw for everyone's information. Tremor in particular has to hold 5 Jason D1's.

Git Gud.

Learn the mu skrub.

then don't use tremor against jason. problem solved.

 

[Pan1cMode]

then don't use tremor against jason. problem solved.

TYM logic

 

[TheGangstaFace]

then don't use tremor against jason. problem solved.

1. That response sounds stupid. Choose a different character to avoid this busted ass POKE

2. Tell that to someone in a tournament locked in to tremor. Hold these D1 mixups lmfao

3. You just made me realize Jason gets D1 mixups on block

 

[Second Saint]

Does no one remember that Lackey had a 6f d1 that was -3 and that got nerfed for almost exactly the same reason we're talking about Jason's d1, but it wasn't even as problematic. Jason's d1 breaks a fundamental rule of the game for a few characters. If someone pokes you repeatedly, you can poke back.

He's -2, you'd need a 9 frame throw.

Unfortunately from my memory of testing grabs don't work

He wrote the wrong symbol, but he's right about the 7 frame throw. At -2 with a 6f d1, there's an 8f gap, so the throw would have to be faster than that or get beaten clean.

 

[Raiderhorn]

I wasn t planning on posting here then I saw this jason beats Takeda YO

Ugh... never did I say Takeda loses/wins 100% of the time or whatever. Takeda is able to beat Jason but the consensus (that I do agree with) is that Jason wins. But that doesn't mean that Takeda is a pushover, Takeda can be tough to beat.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Ugh... never did I say Takeda loses/wins 100% of the time or whatever. Takeda is able to beat Jason but the consensus (that I do agree with) is that Jason wins. But that doesn't mean that Takeda is a pushover, Takeda can be tough to beat.

If he wins that mean he doesn t struggle

 

[Rude]

well, when you are +2, and the next d1 is hitting in 6 frames, the answer to your question is as simple as asking yourself how many characters have 7 frame throws

You can throw a six frame poke.

I've had it happen to me on several occasions, and my character has a 6f one.

We have a local Lao that throws after string staggers and he consistently throws my poke attempts.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Does no one remember that Lackey had a 6f d1 that was -3 and that got nerfed for almost exactly the same reason we're talking about Jason's d1, but it wasn't even as problematic. Jason's d1 breaks a fundamental rule of the game for a few characters. If someone pokes you repeatedly, you can poke back.


He wrote the wrong symbol, but he's right about the 7 frame throw. At -2 with a 6f d1, there's an 8f gap, so the throw would have to be faster than that or get beaten clean.

You're right it's an 8 frame grab needed (since grabs come out as reversals) to trade.

 

[AGRxShiroKuma]

If they made D1 more minus on block that would be alright with me. I'm starting to find myself playing slasher and doing D1 repeatedlty until they submit to the spam and I can try a mix up again. That's pretty lame. Normalize the D1 jason will still be pretty good.

 

[Second Saint]

You can throw a six frame poke.

I've had it happen to me on several occasions, and my character has a 6f one.

Yes, you can, if said throw reaches its active frames before the poke. Which is not the case with Jason's d1.

 

[Tri-Zero]

Unbreakable + Jason = R.I.P
Just uh...throwin that out there dont mind me.

 

[Rude]

Yes, you can, if said throw reaches its active frames before the poke. Which is not the case with Jason's d1.

I don't see why, if the start up of my character's poke is the same as Jason's. There shouldn't be a difference.

 

[Second Saint]

I don't see why, if the start up of my character's poke is the same as Jason's. There shouldn't be a difference.

You're thinking a raw d1, but the problem in question is multiple d1's. 6f start up and -2 on block leaves an 8 frame gap. 6f start up and -9 on block, like Quan's, leaves a 15 frame gap. Throws have 10f of start up. Notice how one of these numbers is less than 10, meaning there is no room to get a throw out.

Any more questions?

 

[Pan1cMode]

I don't see why, if the start up of my character's poke is the same as Jason's. There shouldn't be a difference.

Because the throw has actually been initiated before you do your poke.

 

[Vigilante24]

What if they made Jason's D1 full combo punishable like Ermac D1 use to be (-10). :3