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Question - Jason Voorhees Why Does Jason Need Nerfs?

MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
yep, not gonna act like im a dictonary of frame data cuz im not, so with that said, any move that is fast and has -2/-3 on block and is a poke, needs to be adjusted to at least -4. that shit is dumb and is just bad judgement on NRS's part.

glad some are realizing this.

some think its ok with characters because there move is 2 frames slower, i very much disagree, because the same principle can be repeated in a different form.

i know forever king said -3 to -4 but -3 is still stupid and it should be -4 or higher.

I know the people who use those characters will want to defend them, but hear this. with my characters i don't rely on dumb shit like that, a move that basically Jails into another hit or to use the advantage to allow me to freely pull out another mixup / strong tool like tick throw or anything. its Garbage and we all know it. if you are truley good and your claims of this move is not what makes the character is even true you would be fine with it being changed to a fair number like -4 on block.

I think the only real reson someone defends it is because in all reality they know they use it to get out free normals or tools. and they know without it they won't get free shit out. and iI think its scrubby to defend shit like that.

Im not projecting this at anybody. and mean nothing ill towards anyone. just my general thoughts on the matter.


When Questions are asked controversy usually follows which brings A catalyst for Change. That is why its important to debate certain Taboo issues.

@Tanno , @CrazyFingers
 
omooba

omooba

fear the moobs
d1 infinite and damn near safe command grab that's literally it. all they need to do is make d1 around -6 and make the command grab have a longer recovery that's literally all he needs
 
E

Eldriken

Guest
I still find it amusing this topic even exists. I remember when Jason was absolute garbage and now he has a variation that some (not all) people think is a contender for top 10 or maybe even top 5.

However, despite this, I still feel Jason's buffs are a great example of how buffs should be handled.

Yes, his d1 needs to be like -4 or -5. As for his command grab, I don't have an opinion on it, really. I've never been wrecked by it to bitch about it, nor have I seen it used in such a way that complaints about it were merited.

But still, his buffs shifted him in the right direction in almost every way. More characters need that kind of treatment.

Also, so no one flies off the handle due to not seeing the obvious: everything above is my opinion. Treat it as such and discuss your opinion on it if you disagree.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
omooba said:
d1 infinite and damn near safe command grab that's literally it. all they need to do is make d1 around -6 and make the command grab have a longer recovery that's literally all he needs
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It doesn't need longer recovery. I usually don't use this when it comes to balance but get good. You read the grab and jump it, NJP to punish it. If you don't punish it it's your fault. D1 should be -5 or -4 and that's it. Stop complaining about the command grab recovery (not just you I mean everyone who is complaining about it, not targeting you, everyone needs to stop complaining about it.) the character is fine, barely anyone plays against Jason so they sometimes don't know what to do against him and therefore he looks broken as fuck. Lab the matchup or you're going to get blown up by his dirt.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Eldriken said:
I still find it amusing this topic even exists. I remember when Jason was absolute garbage and now he has a variation that some (not all) people think is a contender for top 10 or maybe even top 5.

However, despite this, I still feel Jason's buffs are a great example of how buffs should be handled.

Yes, his d1 needs to be like -4 or -5. As for his command grab, I don't have an opinion on it, really. I've never been wrecked by it to bitch about it, nor have I seen it used in such a way that complaints about it were merited.

But still, his buffs shifted him in the right direction in almost every way. More characters need that kind of treatment.

Also, so no one flies off the handle due to not seeing the obvious: everything above is my opinion. Treat it as such and discuss your opinion on it if you disagree.
Click to expand...
Well you're lucky to have a correct opinion :p gotta love Eldriken
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Solomon Gorondy said:
Solomon Grundy's Command Grab dealt 31% damage and gave him a 20% reduction to all damage taken. That character was less than mid tier. Let's not pretend command throws are somehow an overpowered tool that breaks characters in this game; they all suck when compared to Grundy's.
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If he's in IGAU2 he better get some love. Him and Superman were my favorites in IGAU 1
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Tweedy said:
People who think Sun God is good just practice/play ranked with him.

No one competes with Sun God and sees great success. The variation sucks.
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Ehhh, I think he's underrated. Just no one plays him xD kind if like Butcher. Butcher is crazy but no one touched the damn character except for Gunshow or Gunny or whatever he's going by nowadays
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
CrazyFingers said:
Ehhh, I think he's underrated. Just no one plays him xD kind if like Butcher. Butcher is crazy but no one touched the damn character except for Gunshow or Gunny or whatever he's going by nowadays
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Iluusions, FK, FKJR, Alucard, and like 3 other people.

People try with Sun God.
 
hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
CrazyFingers said:
It doesn't need longer recovery. I usually don't use this when it comes to balance but get good. You read the grab and jump it, NJP to punish it. If you don't punish it it's your fault. D1 should be -5 or -4 and that's it. Stop complaining about the command grab recovery (not just you I mean everyone who is complaining about it, not targeting you, everyone needs to stop complaining about it.) the character is fine, barely anyone plays against Jason so they sometimes don't know what to do against him and therefore he looks broken as fuck. Lab the matchup or you're going to get blown up by his dirt.
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I'm not sure you understand what 17 frames means. Stop misinforming people that the answer to it is a simple NJP. The NJP has to be instantaneous and barely off the ground to even consider punishing. Otherwise he recovers in time and d2's you out of your troubles. I already made a video about this.

It's a deadly mixup as well. B12 or b1 grab, pick your poison cause it's sure as hell not reactable. I don't mind you defending the recovery, I just don't agree with how you're telling people how to deal with it. "Just NJP bro git gud" is not as simple as you make it out to be.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Eldriken said:
I still find it amusing this topic even exists. I remember when Jason was absolute garbage and now he has a variation that some (not all) people think is a contender for top 10 or maybe even top 5.

However, despite this, I still feel Jason's buffs are a great example of how buffs should be handled.

Yes, his d1 needs to be like -4 or -5. As for his command grab, I don't have an opinion on it, really. I've never been wrecked by it to bitch about it, nor have I seen it used in such a way that complaints about it were merited.

But still, his buffs shifted him in the right direction in almost every way. More characters need that kind of treatment.

Also, so no one flies off the handle due to not seeing the obvious: everything above is my opinion. Treat it as such and discuss your opinion on it if you disagree.
Click to expand...
Damn stright, what ive said forever. this community makes me sick to a degree.


Jason needs Zero nerfs, he was absolute trash when this game came out, now that he has the capability to show in finals. people are calling for nerfs. and whats worse. is jason is not cheap or Broke, he is Hype and fun to watch.

only thing that really needs an adjustment is the D1 -2 on block possibly to -4 on block and leave the poor killer alone.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
hkriderz said:
I'm not sure you understand what 17 frames means. Stop misinforming people that the answer to it is a simple NJP. The NJP has to be instantaneous and barely off the ground to even consider punishing. Otherwise he recovers in time and d2's you out of your troubles. I already made a video about this.

It's a deadly mixup as well. B12 or b1 grab, pick your poison cause it's sure as hell not reactable. I don't mind you defending the recovery, I just don't agree with how you're telling people how to deal with it. "Just NJP bro git gud" is not as simple as you make it out to be.
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Instant NJPs are something that take practice but they are 100% able to be performed consistently. You need to practice it? That's fine, but the window is a lot wider if you just practice at it. Raiden and Quan players tend to master this because it's a huge tool for the character but every character can do instant NJPs. But maybe that's just me, when I get the read I punish it :/
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
CrazyFingers said:
Instant NJPs are something that take practice but they are 100% able to be performed consistently. You need to practice it? That's fine, but the window is a lot wider if you just practice at it. Raiden and Quan players tend to master this because it's a huge tool for the character but every character can do instant NJPs. But maybe that's just me, when I get the read I punish it :/
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I think some characters NJP is a great AA for certain characters but others can benifit from other tools that are better. depepning on who you are using. like Raiden NJP Cassie S1. if you get what i mean. certain characters have that Large hitbox on certain moves, and you would be crazy not to use which one has the Hitbox for the situation. but i also agree with what you said.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Tho F/T can't punish with NJP because of the wind up but I'm almost positive everyone else can...tho F/T has good ways to deal with it like other than njp
 
hkriderz

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
CrazyFingers said:
Instant NJPs are something that take practice but they are 100% able to be performed consistently. You need to practice it? That's fine, but the window is a lot wider if you just practice at it. Raiden and Quan players tend to master this because it's a huge tool for the character but every character can do instant NJPs. But maybe that's just me, when I get the read I punish it :/
Click to expand...
Raiden and Quan... Of course you'd pick the two characters who have like 5 frame NJPs :DOGE

I guess we're just agreeing to disagreeing then. I absolutely believe it needs at least 10 more frames. It will still be the fastest recovering grab in the game, but it won't be as unforgiving. I mean Jason can literally use it move across the screen because of how fast the move recovers, same with b1
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Also! B1 tick throw is good but I feel like people are up playing it a ton. We are talking about a character that wants to be in your face doing a small amount of meter (this being without setup or without being almost dead) throwing you full screen or out of the corner unless you burn a bar. Also can be armored out of (again, unless he gets a buff on and the damage buff has long recovery, as it should) and, as I said, can be NJP'd. It's strong but don't act like it's some absurd thing that needs to be dealt with. We have bigger fish to fry.
 
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