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Why do NRS games die?

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Indeed. I'd rather make 100 more posts like this than travel 5 mins for MKX. The purpose is to understand why. The reasons I believe are in the OP.

No one is going to travel for a game they don't want to play.

Then you just answered your own question. If they don't like the game they won't travel. No philosophical waxing needed. You either like the game or you don't.

Except for the people that "love" the game and won't travel.

Honestly, this whole site wants to scratch it's head and ponder, "why did Injustice die? Why did x game die?"

Y'all stopped traveling. Plain and simple.

Travel, your game lives. Stay home and write amateur design docs and shitpost about character balance and the game dies.

It's not complicated.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
The main thing is what Corzus said.
Injustice is basically just Mortal Kombat, with a few slight variations on gameplay.

There is no good reason to play both.

There are a lot of other smaller issues, but this is the big hurdle to cross if we ever want both played at the same time.

But it's also pretty telling that I2 won't even be out for 4 months and people have already thrown MKX into the garbage can.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
Honestly I don't think we're big enough as a community to support multiple games. There's to much overlap. Look at games like smash. How many times do you see a smash 4 top 8 and a melee top 8 with the same people. In fact I'm pretty sure Mr wizard talked about how little overlap there was which is why they're both at evo.
 

Fred Marvel

It's actually Freddy Marvel
fighting games in general die after a few years aside from marvel because it has over 50 characters and is such a broken mess theres a ton of shit that takes years to find. every other game is supported/updated for longer than a year. SF, KI, Anime games all have add ons or updates versions instead of being dead after a year.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Inj and MK9 play so differently. Inj1 and MKX also played very different. INJ2 looks like its going to play different than MKX.
Its not even about support persay cause there are plenty of games that get no support from the companies but still are going strong. So why does are community not do the same.
There are a good amount of TO's that are willing to have both games. KIT/Combo Breaker come to mind atm. The reason other TO's remove it is cause people stop showing up. But if people actually talked to the TO's instead of complaining they would probably be willing to help.
At the end of the day its the people who end up killing the game. Not supporting it, Not traveling, Entering Online Events etc. MK9 was brought back from the grave because people liked it and with the help of TO;s. They showed they wanted the game and people traveled for it so it got revived. .
I have said it so many times but it doesn't matter cause yall won't actually do anything about it if you like MKX and just don't like INj2 keep playing MKX. Help host online events. Talk to TO's about running events. Talk to TO's about any sort of possible Pot bonus. Even something like a 500 Free entry is great. You don't need 10K to play a game. Plenty of people play games with Zero pot bonus's
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Truth is that NRS hasn't made a game good enough to keep playing past their two year cycle. That's the main reason why they die.
MKX is good, good enough to keep playing (in fact it only recently got 10 times better with removal of launching armor). If we stop playing it that's on us
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Let's have show of hands for all those people playing SF4
Ok. Let's have a show of hands for everybody playing Cross Tekken
Alright. 3rd strike?

No one outside of Smash plays their older games with any regularity. So NRS games don't "die", they just transition.

New game every 2 years = tournament crowd goes there.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
They had their first watch Tower stream the very same day they were announcing the games for EVO.

Either they had no idea and didn't care, (Unlikely) or they did it on purpose because they wanted to purposely shift the focus to injustice. We will never know which is true but the fact that it was on the same day did in fact boost injustice hype while simultaneously killing MKX hype.
Lol, but the fact that Injustice 2 was announced for EVO, but MKX not, didn't have the same effect?

EVO had already moved on, I don't see how this is on NRS.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Then you just answered your own question. If they don't like the game they won't travel. No philosophical waxing needed. You either like the game or you don't.

Except for the people that "love" the game and won't travel.

Honestly, this whole site wants to scratch it's head and ponder, "why did Injustice die? Why did x game die?"

Y'all stopped traveling. Plain and simple.

Travel, your game lives. Stay home and write amateur design docs and shitpost about character balance and the game dies.

It's not complicated.
Again, it's the "why" do people quit the game. Sure some quit because they don't want to play, but why don't they want to play? If you just say "eh, whatever, people get bored and drop games, it happens", no solution is found to help the problem. "Keep traveling" only applies to those that still want to play, the point was identifying why players get to the point in NRS games where they go from loving the game to quitting.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I mean, its cute but the reality is smash exists and its still seated comfortably on the evo stage, post sequel, without any updates. So any persistence that developer backing or even cognizance that a competitive scene exists being a relevant factor in the "why is game dead" conversation is moot.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Again, it's the "why" do people quit the game. Sure some quit because they don't want to play, but why don't they want to play? If you just say "eh, whatever, people get bored and drop games, it happens", no solution is found to help the problem. "Keep traveling" only applies to those that still want to play, the point was identifying why players get to the point in NRS games where they go from loving the game to quitting.
It's only a "problem" to forum junkies that play Ranked and write design docs on TYM. Most of the people that "quit" never really traveled to begin with. And let's be serious here, every game has drop off the older it gets. This isn't exclusive to NRS games. The difference is that our community is smaller so it looks worse than it is and the reason it looks smaller is because NRS games don't have 10, 20 year legacy fan bases backing them up.

Other shit comes out that people want to play, the pot monsters find another game to pot monster, etc. It's not like the community isn't growing, because it is.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
It's only a "problem" to forum junkies that play Ranked and write design docs on TYM. Most of the people that "quit" never really traveled to begin with. And let's be serious here, every game has drop off the older it gets. This isn't exclusive to NRS games. The difference is that our community is smaller so it looks worse than it is and the reason it looks smaller is because NRS games don't have 10, 20 year legacy fan bases backing them up.

Other shit comes out that people want to play, the pot monsters find another game to pot monster, etc. It's not like the community isn't growing, because it is.
It's a problem for the players who actually love the game. I know first hand how it feels to love a game only like 20 people play on any level remotely close to my own, it sucks. More players breeds competition, better tournaments, better experiences.

Obviously writing novels on TYM while bored at work isn't going to solve anything, but I figured it would at least promote some thinking on the subject.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I mean, its cute but the reality is smash exists and its still seated comfortably on the evo stage, post sequel, without any updates. So any persistence that developer backing or even cognizance that a competitive scene exists being a relevant factor in the "why is game dead" conversation is moot.
This is mainly because people were given 6 years to build a scene around Melee, and then the developer actively scorned their community by deliberately trying to make the next iteration a non-competitive title.

Nintendo's approach was rare and it's evidenced by the number of people who dropped Brawl like a hot rock for Smash 4.

They'll never make a game that plays as fast as Melee again, and their scene knows it.
 
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STORMS

Co-founder
Founder
Premium Supporter
Competitive wise, it would be much more beneficial to spread the patches out. Say FOR EXAMPLE they were going to patch the game 10 times max. Instead of patching 10 times in 2 years, they made balance patches once a year or twice a year. That's 5 or 10 years of supporting the life span of the game. Of course, no one expects a company like NRS to continue supporting a game for 10 years, but 5 certainly doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

That said, business wise it makes almost zero sense. As I said, we make up such a tiny percentage of the market, and casuals would have given the game up so long ago, extending the life span of game in NRS's eyes is basically charity.

So, while stretching out the patches would benefit the competitive community, it's probably not going to ever happen. NRS is a business, people tend to forget that.



2. The business method creates a standard.

Since NRS patches early and often, that's what we all are used to and expect. We expect the game to change all the time, whether the balances changes are warranted or not. They create that standard of constantly having to relearn match-ups and new characters.

Once all the patching stops, and NRS stops supporting the game to work on their new title, that's when the game really starts dying off. We are so used to relying on NRS to keep our games alive, that when they move on, we do too. With no hope of future changes, we are basically "stuck" with the current game. Some people don't mind this, but the point is a lot of people simply get bored because they are used to the standard. The standard of the game changing constantly.



3. New Game HYPE!

Of course another reason our games die out is because of the new game hype. NRS has stopped supporting the current title and are working and promoting the new one, and they're prettu good at hyping up their new games. So more and more people lose interest in the current title, as the new game hype overshadows it. This tied in with the aforementioned factors, no one should be too surprised our games don't last.



4. "THIS COMMUNITY"

The community does play a role in games dying, but my point in this thread is that it's not ONLY the communities fault.

But if we all traveled and took the current game seriously, the game wouldn't die. But by the time NRS stops supporting the game, we aren't getting any new players at that point. So you're essentially seeing the same people place at tournaments. Until some of them quit then the next tier of players rise up. Until they quit and then rinse and repeat. At that point it comes down to passion. But it all ties in together. NRS games aren't built to last a long time, it's ingrained into the core of the game. They aren't trying to make a masterpiece that lasts for decades, just something people will buy and enjoy for a couple of years. This creates a lack of passion for the game itself.


So, can we make a game last longer than 2.5 years and have it thriving? Technically yes, but when all these factors are put in place, I doubt that will ever happen. Just like I doubt we will ever be able to play 2 games at once. We are trained to only play the new game for 2 years, then move on. The vicious NRS cycle is just something we have to accept... until a game comes along where we choose not to accept it.

And that's exactly the game I've been waiting for.

This is just how I feel about it. I would love to hear what y'all think contributes to the death of our games? Do you agree? Disagree? Have other things to add? Let me know, this subject comes up a lot but I don't remember it really being thoroughly discussed or talked about.
A few things I strongly disagree with in regards to MKX. Considering how much is spent towards pot bonuses, etc... the Competitive scene has more and more eyes on it. Not just MK, but all games..., we all know this.

I just feel that MKX has so much life left... it's such a good game and even though, I'm more of a spectator... I FUCKING love it.

My .02 cents. I know it doesn't get me far. Good post though, Juggs.
 
I agree with most of this except I think that the "only patch once a year or twice a year" thing would have killed MKX faster competitively. I don't know anyone who looked at vanilla Raiden or Quan and said "yes please let's do this for a year before a patch"
Yep. Patching seems to be damned if you do, damned if you dont type of scenario. There were countless people saying NRS patched MKX too frequently and lost interest because of it, while others said NRS waited too long to release the last patch and moved on to other games because of that.
 

haketh

Noob
Let's have show of hands for all those people playing SF4
Ok. Let's have a show of hands for everybody playing Cross Tekken
Alright. 3rd strike?

No one outside of Smash plays their older games with any regularity. So NRS games don't "die", they just transition.


New game every 2 years = tournament crowd goes there.
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