Tech - Cryomancer Why Cryomancer Sub Zero is NOT Top 5.

[Paul the Octopus]

Reptiles say then can compete with GM in the zoning wars after the spit buff. Gotta see how that plays out.

In my opinion, new reptile does far worse in the zoning war than he used to. Ex pounce could be done on reaction to ice ball or clone throw (not a difficult reaction at all), and led to great damage and knockdown setups/mixups (which were also better due to ex invis flash parrying sub's wake up). I never saw any reptiles play it that way but I think pre patch reptile did fine against grandmaster if he played lame. Reptile definitely won at 2/3 to full screen in my opinion. He could sparingly spit and throw force balls and sub basically could do nothing from that range. The problem was always after sub knocked him down and put him in the corner. One reason for his corner struggles was that ex claw didn't reach vs a bunch of clone cancels.

In the current meta, reptile also really struggles to antiair sub zero (no more ex claw).

 

[Shade667]

No threat of launching armor to stop from clone cancels

His bad matchups nerfed

Has access to two brand new variations to back him up

Rip Jax and rip Reptile even worse lmao nice knowing them

Id argue reptiles gotten better vs GM now.

 

[Lokheit]

I maintain that Cryo is in a good place now and offers something that's actually complimentary to Sub. I just fear Sonic's potential success with it is going to get the variation knee jerk nerfed. Let's not forget every character he's had under his wing in tournament setting have all been nerfed at some point or another.

(and for those who think it's because the characters themselves were always too good, that list includes mid-2015 Kitana)

I'm really hoping that during the next major Sonic is forced to switch from Cryo to win a game just so everyone sees its flaws and can calm down.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

In the Sonic vs Foxy set you could see Foxy saw the ticks comming from a mile away and jumping back to evade most of his options.

Link, my friend?

EDIT: Nvm, just checked my YT inbox. Thanks K&M!

Spoiler

 

[TamedLizard]

Reptiles say then can compete with GM in the zoning wars after the spit buff. Gotta see how that plays out.

We can. We recover fast enough now to spit and still block an ex ice ball. We can spit, destroy a freshly placed clone, spit again and STILL neutral duck an oncoming ice ball.

It still sucks ass to be cornered by GM, but the buffs certainly help when we want to play keep away. It's just now we don't have to completely bend to the will of his space control.

 

[Braindead]

In my opinion, new reptile does far worse in the zoning war than he used to. Ex pounce could be done on reaction to ice ball or clone throw (not a difficult reaction at all), and led to great damage and knockdown setups/mixups (which were also better due to ex invis flash parrying sub's wake up). I never saw any reptiles play it that way but I think pre patch reptile did fine against grandmaster if he played lame. Reptile definitely won at 2/3 to full screen in my opinion. He could sparingly spit and throw force balls and sub basically could do nothing from that range. The problem was always after sub knocked him down and put him in the corner. One reason for his corner struggles was that ex claw didn't reach vs a bunch of clone cancels.

In the current meta, reptile also really struggles to antiair sub zero (no more ex claw).

We can. We recover fast enough now to spit and still block an ex ice ball. We can spit, destroy a freshly placed clone, spit again and STILL neutral duck an oncoming ice ball.

It still sucks ass to be cornered by GM, but the buffs certainly help when we want to play keep away. It's just now we don't have to completely bend to the will of his space control.

Id argue reptiles gotten better vs GM now.

Conflicting opinions. Interesting.

 

[shura30]

Dude, just go practice your defensive options against Cryo. You'll be fine.

lol, so they said about alien pre-patch

Are you really trying to compare them?

they're both stupid, each one in their respective meta
also, it's not about the character but the concept itself

we did OS in between rekkas for months before seeing them go....just to land to another character which might not be that stupid or dominant (wait for the next major tho) but that still forces a meta in which he can push freely where you have to OS options to conver ticks, staggers, bursts or slides

and after a year, there's still people defending this meta
I don't say to let the ticks go
but for nrs/paulo to frame them so they cannot come at least after attacks with an hitlevel

 

[gam224]

People in Australia play MKX?

 

[Wazminator]

People in Australia play MKX?

Yeah man! I have sets here on my channel http://www.youtube.com/Wazminator or you can check out one of our other top players here https://www.youtube.com/cabjoyau

 

[Tony at Home]

GOOD SHIT

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Reptiles say then can compete with GM in the zoning wars after the spit buff. Gotta see how that plays out.

Interesting. It used to trade clean with ice ball lol

 

[Nu-Skoool]

I'm just going to wait until people realize just how far polar punctures grab hitbox goes.

I really suspect that the majority of his command grabs will come in neutral, where you can't just OS your block timing.

As evidence to support my argument, look how Saltface used Mileenas low pounce back when he was primarily using Ravenous.

 

[Captain l2ed]

In the Sonic vs Foxy set you could see Foxy saw the ticks comming from a mile away and jumping back to evade most of his options.

Yeah, F0XY saw them coming. Foxy who arguably is one of the best at reading and reacting saw them. Don't downplay cryo, foxy is just that good. He still got caught by them. I think it's too early to be making a tier list but cryo is up there imo.

 

[SaSSolino]

you could option select Kobu Jutsu's and Tarkatan's Rekkas too if I'm not mistaken, same with EB's tick throws on 21122.

still seen them placing though.

 

[MKCastiel]

Yeah, F0XY saw them coming. Foxy who arguably is one of the best at reading and reacting saw them. Don't downplay cryo, foxy is just that good. He still got caught by them. I think it's too early to be making a tier list but cryo is up there imo.

F0xy wasn't doing this. That's the whole point of this thread. Too show players their options against it, so they aren't forced to make random jump/duck reads every time they are touched. It is literally showing regardless if he finishes the string, or does the CMD grab, youre at an advantage/get a punish. ( On some strings )

you could option select Kobu Jutsu's and Tarkatan's Rekkas too if I'm not mistaken, same with EB's tick throws on 21122.

still seen them placing though.

Not really comparable. Tarkatan's rekkas for example, could only be guaranteed OS'd by armour that was 13f or faster. Anything slower than that, he could block and bait you for OS'ing during his rekkas. ( I think thats what Pig's video on Tarkatan said ) As for Tanya... no one was denying she was as broke as everyone was saying lmao.

 

[SaSSolino]

As for Tanya... no one was denying she was as broke as everyone was saying lmao.

my foolish friend, you should have seen my personal crusade against the Tanya community. I assure you, there were people that denied.

 

[UsedForGlue]

If someone applies this perfectly in a match, then more power to them, I doubt it tho.

For now, our best way of out his grabs are to either be hit by the string with the opponent not hit confirming the grab (unless they just input MB grabs because they can't hit confirm or are not sure) or most likely ducking in a hard read, if we are all to be serious here.

The knee jerk reaction is to SonicFox going ham with him online, he did that with Hunter Predator and then that whole phase everyone was in quickly faded away. So what I am saying is, Yes, Cryo is good, no doubt, but top? No, Sonicfox could make anything look OP.

But, I guess only time will tell, as this current Cryo is like a brand new DLC character, but dressed as Sub Zero with a Slide.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

Clone > all

 

[Scott The Scot]

(and for those who think it's because the characters themselves were always too good, that list includes mid-2015 Kitana)

Even Sonic Fox said at the time she did way too much damage lol.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Just like Glue said, we need time but @shura30 had some good points here.

 

[shura30]

The knee jerk reaction is to SonicFox going ham with him online, he did that with Hunter Predator and then that whole phase everyone was in quickly faded away. So what I am saying is, Yes, Cryo is good, no doubt, but top? No, Sonicfox could make anything look OP.

It's not about those SF matches, it's never been
it's about the knowledge of the game we have 2 years in

when they did patch XL onto us, we had these tick throws that worked wonders
I've played brawler cassie enough to tell that everyone gets caught by dirty stuff like d4 grab or 2~grab for 12% damage every single time into oki
and she has a 50/50 on them too

now we get this brand new grab to cryomancer that not only ticks off strings that are powerful enough on their own but it can launch for a single bar too!

ofc we will keep playing and will try and adapt, we just came off 9 months with alien, we're proven enough
from my time in the lab I already know there's nothing guaranteed and that each one of cryo's strings has a gap that can be exploited
but he's got options to revert back the risk/reward in his favour (and thank the gods for no more launching armor, that's where his exhammer would've shined)

just like xl patch, they just moved tools from one character to another

 

[Wazminator]

If someone applies this perfectly in a match, then more power to them, I doubt it tho.

For now, our best way of out his grabs are to either be hit by the string with the opponent not hit confirming the grab (unless they just input MB grabs because they can't hit confirm or are not sure) or most likely ducking in a hard read, if we are all to be serious here.

The knee jerk reaction is to SonicFox going ham with him online, he did that with Hunter Predator and then that whole phase everyone was in quickly faded away. So what I am saying is, Yes, Cryo is good, no doubt, but top? No, Sonicfox could make anything look OP.

But, I guess only time will tell, as this current Cryo is like a brand new DLC character, but dressed as Sub Zero with a Slide.

I've already got it down quite consistently and have used it in matches, a lot easier than it looks.

 

[Nu-Skoool]

I think players are able to use good tech against obvious tick throw setups but they're oversimplifying due to underdeveloped meta and playing low level players.

 

[Nuovo_Cabjoy]

Now will you people accept that this is legit???

 

[TyCarter35]

I thought Sub still had issues in the neutral which wasn't really addressed in the patch and the other thing ppl really overlooked with the new toys Cryo got to play with imo