Question - Sub-Zero Which Sub-Zero variation will you main?

[Konqrr]

All three... you can't commit to one specific variation as they each have their strengths and matchups are very important.

 

[Barrogh]

All three... you can't commit to one specific variation as they each have their strengths and matchups are very important.

Unless they end up having little in common besides a pair of specials. Then you can just as well go secondary another character altogether.
That said, the wording of style description often sounds like "adds such and such special", so I guess it's not that bad.

ice aura nullifies chip

Universally or from projectiles only (as I think I've seen in another thread)? Is it passive ability or a special?

 

[NY-Shadow]

The version better able to deal with the the many variations of broken characters.

 

[Barrogh]

The version better able to deal with the the many variations of broken characters.

What if Subs ends up being one that is broken?

 

[NY-Shadow]

What if Subs ends up being one that is broken?

Then that will mean only one thing; NRS accidentally created a balanced game.

 

[Barrogh]

Then that will mean only one thing; NRS accidentally created a balanced game.

That's one nice definition of balance you have there
Anyways, what's with being jaded about MKX so early? Stay positive.

 

[NY-Shadow]

That's one nice definition of balance you have there
Anyways, what's with being jaded about MKX so early? Stay positive.

MK9 and Injustice backlash lol.

 

[Solid]

A tiny bit off topic. I saw that they gave Sub a low combo starter

 

[Barrogh]

A tiny bit off topic. I saw that they gave Sub a low combo starter

If it's universal, then perhaps we can see what's the potential strength of cryomancer is. That is, assuming hammer is as overhead as it looks. It's possible it has to be Ex-d to launch though, I think I've seen it just sending people splat on regular hit, but not sure.

 

[NY-Shadow]

If it's universal, then perhaps we can see what's the potential strength of cryomancer is. That is, assuming hammer is as overhead as it looks. It's possible it has to be Ex-d to launch though, I think I've seen it just sending people splat on regular hit, but not sure.

If NRS really wants a character to be competitively strong against the entire cast and not suffer the fate of MK9 Scorpion and Sub-Zero then they will give every character at least two 3-hit mixup combo launchers aside from the generic overhead popup starters the entire cast will have. It's like what makes Batgirl, Batman, Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Bane, Green Lantern so good in Injustice Gods Among Us, there fast low-mid-high and mid-high-low combo starters that lead into launchers.

 

[NY-Shadow]

When a character has only a single hit overhead or low combo launcher by itself, and no 3-hit mixup launchers it will be doomed at higher level gameplay because simple fuzzy guarding or a 50-50 guess whether to block high or low will shut that character down and basically nullify any pressure options that character can deliver. Thus making the character weak/garbage.

But when a character has at least two 3-hit mixup launchers that go from mid-high-low and low-mid-high the blocking guessing game is much more difficult and risky because you also have to deal with the possible generic overhead and low attacks and similar starting hard knock downs as well. Thus making the character strong/high level competitive.

 

[Barrogh]

You don't really need mixups to have solid characters. MK9 Cage had no real ones and was ending up killing people with chip. Pre-patch Raiden had similar option (albeit weaker), but was also boss in spacing game. Sonya had mixups, but nothing like what you're describing and wasn't about them first and foremost anyways. Even strongest characters in that game weren't strong because of mixups (Kabal's saw/hooks of death, sure; Cyrax' and his damned low/throw starters, oh wait; Kenshi's main strength being f2/b2, suuuure).

IGAU was mixup heavy because it also had no chip to speak of. An impression of balance in that game comes from the fact that guesses are everywhere and "randomization" evens up odds a bit. When something is about coin toss, people tend to not looking deeper, cheering for "nice reads" and saying that it's not a character/balance, but it's a player, even though in truth it's really about basic design of IGAU.

If NRS can't do better but creating more opportunities for everyone to make a random mistake, I'll take that, but it's not neccessary.

Bottom line: MK isn't about walking next to opponent and forcing him to guess, and it isn't how many other FGs are built either, so no reason to think that making coin tosses affect the game more is the only way to even up the odds.

 

[NY-Shadow]

You don't really need mixups to have solid characters. MK9 Cage had no real ones and was ending up killing people with chip. Pre-patch Raiden had similar option (albeit weaker), but was also boss in spacing game. Sonya had mixups, but nothing like what you're describing and wasn't about them first and foremost anyways. Even strongest characters in that game weren't strong because of mixups (Kabal's saw/hooks of death, sure; Cyrax' and his damned low/throw starters, oh wait; Kenshi's main strength being f2/b2, suuuure).

IGAU was mixup heavy because it also had no chip to speak of. An impression of balance in that game comes from the fact that guesses are everywhere and "randomization" evens up odds a bit. When something is about coin toss, people tend to not looking deeper, cheering for "nice reads" and saying that it's not a character/balance, but it's a player, even though in truth it's really about basic design of IGAU.

If NRS can't do better but creating more opportunities for everyone to make a random mistake, I'll take that, but it's not neccessary.

Bottom line: MK isn't about walking next to opponent and forcing him to guess, and it isn't how many other FGs are built either, so no reason to think that making coin tosses affect the game more is the only way to even up the odds.

Well going back to MK9, let's imagine that MK9 Scorpion would have been able to link a spear after his forward,4,3, making it a true 3 hit combo setup launcher and you were able to connect an overhead blade attack after a foward4,3 as another true 3 hit combo launcher. If MK9 scorpion were able to have those mixup combos he would have been top tier and compatible at high level tournament gameplay. He then would have been a great character because of those two types of combo launching mixups. So mixup combos hold heavy weight in fighting games to make a character great.

 

[Barrogh]

Well going back to MK9, let's imagine that MK9 Scorpion would have been able to link a spear after his forward,4,3, making it a true 3 hit combo setup launcher and you were able to connect an overhead blade attack after a foward4,3 as another true 3 hit combo launcher. If MK9 scorpion were able to have those mixup combos he would have been top tier and compatible at high level tournament gameplay. He then would have been a great character because of those two types of combo launching mixups. So mixup combos hold heavy weight in fighting games to make a character great.

What you're basically saying (for the most part) is "what if Scorpion's mixup was safe by the virtue of being hit-detectable". Nobody argue that making his vortex safer at least one way would make him that much better. My point was, however, that it's not the only way to make character better. The real issue is that Scorp's neutral game was kind of ass and it can be felt even in rather low bracket. That's what I try to allude to - there's more to MK than pressure game, and there's more to MK's pressure game than taking turns at opening each other up with slightly negative mixup options. I mean, we can have those, but it's not like every character must have one.

For the record, I actually think that unsafe vortex is a decent option to have on a character for a change, say, as an emergency option if you don't have health to play conservative game this round, for example. Like a unique gimmick, perhaps.

 

[ChuckFiasco]

All 3 cause im the 12th best SZ player in the world.

 

[Zatoichi]

If I'm going to main a character, I'm going to use all three variations, otherwise I'm just maining 1/3 of my character.

 

[Eddy Wang]

(Cryomancer)Sub-Zero Hammer is a special move, ex Hammer bounds the opponent in the air, which should allow this sub-zero to extend his combos a bit more than (U) Sub and (GM) Sub, just a though, but are some of you guys really so focused on (GM) Sub? Cryomancer looks godlike too tho.

 

[Barrogh]

...but are some of you guys really so focused on (GM) Sub?

I think that for a lot of players Clone is Sub's signature move at this point. People played him these years because of clone and spacing game it provided and little else. Besides, weapon toting variations of characters we were shown seem to sacrifice utility and spacing for combos and banal rushdown (maybe), no wonder not everybody can see their character behind that style.

 

[GeoffBedlam]

The kind of Sub-Zero I play is pretty defense orientated, so I'd go with Unbreakable and Grandmaster.

 

[DeathTouch]

I'm just excited trying out all three variations SZ has. Though @Tom Brady makes a good point about clone version. Likely Grandmasters .a.k.a Clone SZ will be most effective in most matchups cause that move is just so good in fighting games !

 

[Immortal Reaver]

I'm the kind of person that has their few mains, but still uses the majority of characters for fun. So I'm pretty sure that I'll use all variations for Sub-Zero. But so far, Cryomancer seems the most exciting to me. but I think I'd use Grandmaster the most.

 

[Braindead]

@Qwark28 which variation do you like the best so far?

 

[Qwark28]

@Qwark28 which variation do you like the best so far?

Ice clone one and weapons one second.

 

[Braindead]

Ice clone one and weapons one second.

I hate you.

 

[Demon_0]

Right now there are two characters for which I want to main all three variations; Sub-Zero and Goro. I know Goro isn't announced but something tells me he will be badass. All of SZ's variations are awesome and well differentiated. I can't decide though if I like Unbreakable better or Grandmaster. The idea of ice clones stopping projectiles is great, not to mention being able to throw them. His Unbreakable variation seems to have very good defensive AND offensive options and I have always played more of a defensive game. I am fairly certain I will use those two the most, depending on my match up. Still, I definitely want to main Cryomancer as well because of the overhead hammer.