What's the current state of Captain Cold

[neveradestroyer]

Captain Cold is busted... Imagine... A robber of ATM's vs Alien Worlds Conquerors, Gods and Demigods, Inter-dimensional Ninjas, Cybernetic Humanoids and Over-gadget-ed Warmongers. Of course He would be the strongest.

Look at this... that pitiful Destroyer of Empires guy never stood a chance...

 

[SaSSolino]

Yeah, basically very even matchups. Best I can describe it is like Liu Kang vs Smoke or Johnny Cage in Mk9. They were considered 5-5 but it's a slug.

I just need to grind the Lantern MU more but it didn't seem too bad. Joker is seriously just a damn pain.

Wonder Woman is also a chore because her projectile is just ridiculous in that mu, and she's so safe up close. It's just really tough for some reason.

Dude how did Liu Kang go even with Smoke in MK9? I mean, Cage is debatable, but Smoke?

 

[B. Shazzy]

from what i heard there's only like 3 zoners that cold can't counter zone at all and even that some people disagree with.
regardless i still expect a reasonable conversation from reasonable which for the most part is what is happening now

ya fox just said it was Fate and Deadshot that gave him trouble didnt mention any other character and specfically said not Darkseid or Aquaman

 

[KH_Seraph]

Dude how did Liu Kang go even with Smoke in MK9? I mean, Cage is debatable, but Smoke?

Liu Kangs normals were slightly better at in your face range than smokes

 

[freerf245]

Hes bad lol

 

[MisguidedAngel]

sooooo which of these are real answers and which ones are basic trolls who that think they're not saying a joke other people have made thousands of times

That's a very immature attitude, young man.

 

[Zoidberg747]

ya fox just said it was Fate and Deadshot that gave him trouble didnt mention any other character and specfically said not Darkseid or Aquaman

Ivy is way worse than both of those though.

 

[SaSSolino]

Liu Kangs normals were slightly better at in your face range than smokes

Keyword being slightly. Smoke had more range on normals and could out zone Kang for some meter. Also Kang's pokes were meh and it wasn't super easy to get out of Smoke's pressure, while Smoke had d1xxSmokeBomb. Finally, Smoke out damaged Kang.

Nah bruh, it wasn't 5-5.

 

[Invincible Salads]

yeah, if my character doesnt zone him out, i really don't feel like playing this MU

 

[KH_Seraph]

Keyword being slightly. Smoke had more range on normals and could out zone Kang for some meter. Also Kang's pokes were meh and it wasn't super easy to get out of Smoke's pressure, while Smoke had d1xxSmokeBomb. Finally, Smoke out damaged Kang.

Nah bruh, it wasn't 5-5.

Liu had the ultimate whiff punisher in b312, had f12 that jailed, a great meaty poke you can convert off of in f4, and some of the best staggering strings like b23(? I think it was), great anti-air in standing 2, so in close range Smoke could really get messed up.

The point is, it is a tough matchup for Liu but not 6-4 like Kabal, which is what I was envisioning to make the CC/Green Arrow comparison like versus say CC/Ivy. I'd rather not go too off-topic on this quip so either agree to disagree or we can just say 5.5-4.5 Smoke favor if you want to be specific, which is what CC/GA feels like anyway. I'm drawing from memory from years ago so a case could have been made that I just knew the matchup very well due to having access to a Smoke main back in the day.

 

[M.D.]

He is lower mid tier.
There are others in his situation but he is in a special spot that his tools either work awesome, or not at all.

He still needs a bit of buffs and tweaks to make all his tools usable to some extent.

 

[DubiousShenron]

Still can't think of a character I would rank under him. He doesn't seem as good as any of the other characters but his level 2 snow globe looks broken

 

[Vengeance135]

I personally think joker and cold are even, but joker is for sure in the bottom 5 of the worse characters in the game.

 

[KH_Seraph]

CC's d2, d1, ice puddle, and trait are what keep him afloat or above most matchups. I don't think he's lower mid-tier at this point, just solid and fragile as ice mid.

 

[Vengeance135]

CC's d2, d1, ice puddle, and trait are what keep him afloat or above most matchups. I don't think he's lower mid-tier at this point, just solid and fragile as ice mid.

What would you think buffs would do to him? In my experience against cold players, one of the most annoying things they would do is just maneuver trait around gunshot then blow me up with level 2 trait, so I opt to try to compete mid range. Joker can't really jump on cold, his d2 is hella good and puddle really puts joker in a bind, especially on a health deficit. Joker has to be selective when he has cold in the corner due to the ice wall wake up still. Guessing his wake up wrong gives up jokers turn. Cold having joker in the corner on knock down can be a nightmare but realistically, every character obliterates joker on knock down due to the fact that he has no wake up lol. I mean I didn't go into crazy detail but after grinding the joker/cold MU a lot, I see it as 5-5. Depending on if they buff cold (we already know joker isn't ever getting buffed), that could change the whole MU lol. What cold buffs would you look for?

 

[KH_Seraph]

What would you think buffs would do to him? In my experience against cold players, one of the most annoying things they would do is just maneuver trait around gunshot then blow me up with level 2 trait, so I opt to try to compete mid range. Joker can't really jump on cold, his d2 is hella good and puddle really puts joker in a bind, especially on a health deficit. Joker has to be selective when he has cold in the corner due to the ice wall wake up still. Guessing his wake up wrong gives up jokers turn. Cold having joker in the corner on knock down can be a nightmare but realistically, every character obliterates joker on knock down due to the fact that he has no wake up lol. I mean I didn't go into crazy detail but after grinding the joker/cold MU a lot, I see it as 5-5. Depending on if they buff cold (we already know joker isn't ever getting buffed), that could change the whole MU lol. What cold buffs would you look for?

Well right off the bat if they want to keep things balanced, they'd need to buff Joker and the other lower tiers if they're going to do anything additional to CC, otherwise the matchup will become more in CC's favor.

Joker keeps CC's trait antics in check with his projectile game and I'm not 100% sure how Joker's trait works but I've had them steamroll me with pressure using his long range and fast normals.

The main buffs I'd like to see are the ones that would help make CC more viable in a zoning war against the zoners, such as:
- Slightly bigger hurtbox on his death-cycle
- Ice Trap automatically charges trait when inside it (Or at least have the EX version do it)
- Turn his projectile into a mid (Currently need to spend meter to do it, but you can get hit out of it); or give the second shot armored or give it Sub Zero's ex-iceball properties.
- Give Ice Block additional hits of armor against certain projectiles (Like most of the pew pew ones, but let projectiles like Wonder Woman's blow through it. I'd even accept Joker's magnum blowing through it).

Just anything in general that would help against zoners to make them more 5-5 matchups would be nice, but I don't see that happening at all lol.

 

[RiBBz22]

lol his current state is the same as his past state.

 

[KH_Seraph]

By the way @Vengeance135 , Joker and most characters can blow up Captain Colds that like to wake up with ice wall very easily by crossing them up or whiff punish if they don't spend meter. I think this is a good example of a well-balanced matchup in Injustice 2, but am in complete agreement that Joker needs something to keep him from being the worst character in the game.

I feel for you guys.

 

[RiBBz22]

Well right off the bat if they want to keep things balanced, they'd need to buff Joker and the other lower tiers if they're going to do anything additional to CC, otherwise the matchup will become more in CC's favor.

Joker keeps CC's trait antics in check with his projectile game and I'm not 100% sure how Joker's trait works but I've had them steamroll me with pressure using his long range and fast normals.

The main buffs I'd like to see are the ones that would help make CC more viable in a zoning war against the zoners, such as:
- Slightly bigger hurtbox on his death-cycle
- Ice Trap automatically charges trait when inside it (Or at least have the EX version do it)
- Turn his projectile into a mid (Currently need to spend meter to do it, but you can get hit out of it); or give the second shot armored or give it Sub Zero's ex-iceball properties.
- Give Ice Block additional hits of armor against certain projectiles (Like most of the pew pew ones, but let projectiles like Wonder Woman's blow through it. I'd even accept Joker's magnum blowing through it).

Just anything in general that would help against zoners to make them more 5-5 matchups would be nice, but I don't see that happening at all lol.

Putting Cold in a crouch state during the death-cicle animation would be an awesome buff. Then he could actually get something on the screen to respect against people who can punish his design from full screen and force some movement out of them.

 

[KH_Seraph]

Putting Cold in a crouch state during the death-cicle animation would be an awesome buff. Then he could actually get something on the screen to respect against people who can punish his design from full screen and force some movement out of them.

Making it similar to his d2 animation would be extremely helpful in the zoning war, I definitely agree. Probably would never happen though. Cold is in this sketchy spot where he needs help, but if the wrong tweaks are made, then he'd be too good and we'd see an overflow of Captain Colds which I definitely don't want.

 

[RiBBz22]

Making it similar to his d2 animation would be extremely helpful in the zoning war, I definitely agree. Probably would never happen though. Cold is in this sketchy spot where he needs help, but if the wrong tweaks are made, then he'd be too good and we'd see an overflow of Captain Colds which I definitely don't want.

Yeah I completely agree. Since the first week I have been saying how flawed his design is and how broken he could be if they gave him the wrong sort of changes. I'd be good with a slight buff to trait charge, minor walk speed buff, and doing something with b232 so you can't duck the entire thing.

 

[Vengeance135]

By the way @Vengeance135 , Joker and most characters can blow up Captain Colds that like to wake up with ice wall very easily by crossing them up or whiff punish if they don't spend meter. I think this is a good example of a well-balanced matchup in Injustice 2, but am in complete agreement that Joker needs something to keep him from being the worst character in the game.

I feel for you guys.

The only cross up that works on ice wall is j1 but it's limited to combo options depending on where it hits because it doesn't jail. His other jump cross ups get beat by ice wall. Jokers trait is useless lol the only normal joker can use vs cold that I could see harassing him is d2 but follow up options give up his turn and are easy to react to. Personally, I like playing the cold MU because it really feels like nothing is lopsided like 95% of jokers MU's lol

 

[SaSSolino]

Liu had the ultimate whiff punisher in b312, had f12 that jailed, a great meaty poke you can convert off of in f4, and some of the best staggering strings like b23(? I think it was), great anti-air in standing 2, so in close range Smoke could really get messed up.

The point is, it is a tough matchup for Liu but not 6-4 like Kabal, which is what I was envisioning to make the CC/Green Arrow comparison like versus say CC/Ivy. I'd rather not go too off-topic on this quip so either agree to disagree or we can just say 5.5-4.5 Smoke favor if you want to be specific, which is what CC/GA feels like anyway. I'm drawing from memory from years ago so a case could have been made that I just knew the matchup very well due to having access to a Smoke main back in the day.

Well, it sure wasn't as bad as Kabal. Still, I remember the Smoke MU as one of the toughest ones for Kang. You are right on being too long ago to give numbers though.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Would you say he's... polar-ice-ing?

I love you.

 

[Sulfur]

Bodies some characters, others blow him up free. You need to have a secondary if you play captain cold.