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What stops you from doing 2NDC to infinity?

GambitTheFirst

GambitTheFirst

Just some bees, please.
Just a question I had in mind ever since REO initially posted a video of the 2 NDC block infinite.

Now I understand the only remotely "balanced" thing with Kabal's n2 is the fact that you can duck it which is obviously why it isn't the go to normal for NDC mixups. However if you do catch someone with a 2NDC, why not keep doing it? Is it a matter of not relying on yourself to be able to keep up the execution of it on frame? Or just a matter of not being a fucking lame bastard to your opponent (but when there's lots of money on the line in a tournament, can you really be blamed for doing it?) Or more importantly what I really would like to know is... is there actually a way out?

Going on this thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/kabal-frame-data-conclusions-blocked-string-gaps.15312/
...it seems 2 NDC is +9 on block (+8 on hit), and execution for n2 is well... 9 frames. Is it possible to take the hit on the chin and hope that they don't just complete the dash for full combo, and use that measly 1 frame for anything (possible to duck)?

So what is it? Execution, honor, or is there actually a risk?
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
dude...have you tried this? its harder than walking on water. i can do it like 3-4 times maybe before messing up. AND many characters can get out of it due to hit box
 
GambitTheFirst

GambitTheFirst

Just some bees, please.
L0rdoftheFLY said:
dude...have you tried this? its harder than walking on water. i can do it like 3-4 times maybe before messing up. AND many characters can get out of it due to hit box
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Yeah I know, I can barely even do NDC's off other normals lol!

But with enough practice...
(Disclamer: REO has absolute fiendish execution).

But yeah that's precisely why I'm asking, if it's the fact that it's hard as nails to do then that's a fair answer!
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
GambitTheFirst said:
Yeah I know, I can barely even do NDC's off other normals lol!

But with enough practice...
(Disclamer: REO has absolute fiendish execution).

But yeah that's precisely why I'm asking, if it's the fact that it's hard as nails to do then that's a fair answer!
Click to expand...
he had mileena on stand block...try doing that with her on crouch block
 
GambitTheFirst

GambitTheFirst

Just some bees, please.
L0rdoftheFLY said:
he had mileena on stand block...try doing that with her on crouch block
Click to expand...
You can't. I already stated that in the OP. Only point of the video was that you can do it loads of times in a row if you've practiced it enough to be disgustingly good. But as I said, being too hard to rely on being able to keep it up on frame is a perfectly acceptable answer to my question. Cheers.

KamikazeJD said:
Concerning this thread tho. You need to have reflexes like a monster to pull this off. I'd love to see it done in a tournament for a win
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Iduno, it's all fun and games watching it done to Shao Kahn (freaking hilarious actually), but when it's a real and skillful player being cheaped out (even though it does require so much skill to do) it's a pretty lame way of winning. But at the same time knowing it's so hard makes it impressive, so it's a difficult one to judge!
 
KamikazeJD

KamikazeJD

Makes women fap
GambitTheFirst said:
You can't. I already stated that in the OP. Only point of the video was that you can do it loads of times in a row if you've practiced it enough to be disgustingly good. But as I said, being too hard to rely on being able to keep it up on frame is a perfectly acceptable answer to my question. Cheers.


Iduno, it's all fun and games watching it done to Shao Kahn (freaking hilarious actually), but when it's a real and skillful player being cheaped out (even though it does require so much skill to do) it's a pretty lame way of winning. But at the same time knowing it's so hard makes it impressive, so it's a difficult one to judge!
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Thats the thing tho. As top players they have to figure out how to counter it. I know thats way easier said than done, but you gotta figure it out. Is it really as bad as getting lamed out by JC and his frame traps and mixups? or getting stuck in an 80% by cyrax. You have to work hard, as a kabal player to get tha NDC infinite. I respect it.
 
NogunYesknife

NogunYesknife

Noob
GambitTheFirst said:
Just a question I had in mind ever since REO initially posted a video of the 2 NDC block infinite.

Now I understand the only remotely "balanced" thing with Kabal's n2 is the fact that you can duck it which is obviously why it isn't the go to normal for NDC mixups. However if you do catch someone with a 2NDC, why not keep doing it? Is it a matter of not relying on yourself to be able to keep up the execution of it on frame? Or just a matter of not being a fucking lame bastard to your opponent (but when there's lots of money on the line in a tournament, can you really be blamed for doing it?) Or more importantly what I really would like to know is... is there actually a way out?

Going on this thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/kabal-frame-data-conclusions-blocked-string-gaps.15312/
...it seems 2 NDC is +9 on block (+8 on hit), and execution for n2 is well... 9 frames. Is it possible to take the hit on the chin and hope that they don't just complete the dash for full combo, and use that measly 1 frame for anything (possible to duck)?

So what is it? Execution, honor, or is there actually a risk?
Click to expand...
I posted this once, Ill post it again.

 
Lulzlou

Lulzlou

Noob
I usually do it if I have the life lead, they have 5-15%ish health, and I end a combo with the f4 ndc standing reset.

Other than that I try to do it only 2-5times after the f4 reset because I know I can do it that many times without nerves getting to me depending on setting.

I got close ending a match with it on blackula's stream the weekend before civil war.

Edit: the best way to see if you can do it on frame is if you end a combo with f4 reset then go into it when the cpu is set on auto crouch block.
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Noob
I can do it 7-8 times before I mess up. Its hard as fuck to do and not really worth it in the end. REO is a God at doing it though.
 
Lulzlou

Lulzlou

Noob
KaballinJustice said:
I can do it 7-8 times before I mess up. Its hard as fuck to do and not really worth it in the end. REO is a God at doing it though.
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Yeah, for sure its hard but its not something to be heavily focused on. The main problem I had was only focusing on praciticing NDC when I could do it consistently in a match. Now I've been practicing other things and it has paid off really well so far.

When picking Kabal up and learning ndc and the mix-ups, you need to ask yourself this; Why are you doing it and what is your goal? Before I didn't have an answer to that because all I knew was watching and learning from videos. For a while I thought iagb then ndc pressure when they are close. As time went by and I got more experience, I finally do have an answer.
 
KamikazeJD

KamikazeJD

Makes women fap
REO said:
You guys are too easily fooled by that video. It was a troll video to add in to the hype (which 98% fell for) during the 16bit era. I left the opponent on stand block, which means you cannot tell if each 2~ndc, 2~ndc was done to the frame.
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LMAO this dude said durin the 16bit era... What era are we in now, good sir? The Majin Jr?
 
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