What should NRS learn from MK11?

[623HS]

Footsies definitely aren't just a 'SF thing'. There are very few games that I'd describe as not having 'any footsies'.

And they are most definitely a part of MK9, IGAU, INJ2, and MK11.

My bad i was wrong about no footsies, every game has it but unless your char walk fast, don't have many ways to get in and if your moves don't have million frame recovery like in nrs games (there is a reason people don't want to commit to sweep in sf footsies) you probably don't want to play too much footsies. Beside who cares about being footsies based what's wrong with just normal spacing into setplay/pressure until the opponent is dead. Something like the first few matches in this clip really hit the sweet spot, kind off too jumpy though

 

[Vslayer]

MK11's variation system is much worse than X's. At least in X you could see the idea behind most of the variations. In 11 they're legit just slapped together. I'll never fucking forget them adding Kabal's garbage ass Tornado spin to one of his tournament variations

Yep, that's the main issue. There's some variations added in there for no reason. We didn't need three. Literally. Some people will play them because they want to be a character specialist with their main but hot damn they're just there because they wanted to add 'content' so people would get excited and lab the new variations.

I feel like whoever made them, labbed each character for 2 min and like you said, slap them together with a 'good 'nuff' seal of approval, slapped the roof of the patch and said 'this baby can hold so much new content'.

 

[John Grizzly]

I think thats the biggest issue. They tried to put balance above fun and it really shows. Almost every fucking Kombast Kast mentioned a character being "Super simple to use, not a huge combo character"

Outside of maybe Kung Lao, nobody has style like this in MK11

Don't forget them almost always saying "and this is the combo variation", but meanwhile......the combos are all ass with absolutely no room for creativity or variety still.

I loooooooved crazy shit like Nimble Reptile, Spectral Ermac, Cyrax.....shit, the entire cast had fun combos.

 

[623HS]

Hey who knows you might find combos somewhere eventually. samsho vs was supposed to be an almost no combo game but 16 years later some europeans are rocking some long ass tod combos full of tight links and other crazy shit, and knowing how janky nrs games are we might find more dumb stuff soon.

 

[Swindle]

Hey who knows you might find combos somewhere eventually. samsho vs was supposed to be an almost no combo game but 16 years later some europeans are rocking some long ass tod combos full of tight links and other crazy shit, and knowing how janky nrs games are we might find more dumb stuff soon.

Honestly, most players (“top” players included) don’t spend the time & effort to find a lot of those possibilities.
MK’s set it & forget it style of play almost punishes you for trying to dig deep, and it just isn’t necessary with the way most play the game.

 

[Sugarwatermixlegit]

Don't tease Bruce Campbell 800 times and then not deliver

No but really, the meter and super system was perfectly fine the last two games and they should ditch what they did here. Also, don't make characters so cut and dry. I loved in MKX you could see two Predator or Reptile or whoever players and they could be playing completely different. In MK11 there is a tiny bit of that but for the most part everybody plays their characters the exact same way, literally. Its just who gets the mechanics more.

 

[Rice]

Put Skarlet on every base roster.

She is a Bloodbender. With how much MK loves its blood she should become one of the mainstays of the franchise.

 

[ismael4790]

They should learn not to touch what worked fine in previous titles, and also to take advantage of the years of testing and balancing of each game when making a new one instead of starting from the scratch each time.

 

[Qwark28]

My bad i was wrong about no footsies, every game has it but unless your char walk fast, don't have many ways to get in and if your moves don't have million frame recovery like in nrs games (there is a reason people don't want to commit to sweep in sf footsies) you probably don't want to play too much footsies. Beside who cares about being footsies based what's wrong with just normal spacing into setplay/pressure until the opponent is dead. Something like the first few matches in this clip really hit the sweet spot, kind off too jumpy though

If you don't think there are footsies in the matches you linked you have 0 understanding of guilty gear. Just in the first 30 seconds there are a million smart decisions happening.

 

[NaCl man]

Don't tease Bruce Campbell 800 times and then not deliver

Yes. This was what I was i was excited for and to have it not happen is a big let down.
Saw a recent q&a he did and somebody asked him about it and he said if it doesn't happen it's due to legal stuff and the rights to the character.

I'll try and find it and put it up

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Yes. This was what I was i was excited for and to have it not happen is a big let down.
Saw a recent q&a he did and somebody asked him about it and he said if it doesn't happen it's due to legal stuff and the rights to the character.

I'll try and find it and put it up

Its almost as bad as the Solid Snake for Tekken teaser at Evo.

 

[623HS]

If you don't think there are footsies in the matches you linked you have 0 understanding of guilty gear. Just in the first 30 seconds there are a million smart decisions happening.

more like i don't understand what you guys mean by footsies, they dont even walk in that first 30s. playing neutral isnt the same as footsies, but I'm probably wrong though

 

[Qwark28]

more like i don't understand what you guys mean by footsies, they dont even walk in that first 30s. playing neutral isnt the same as footsies, but I'm probably wrong though

Playing neutral and playing footsies are not the same, but they overlap a lot, they're a part of each other.

Neutral is the state between 2 players with neither being at advantage, footsies is the act of utilising your normals alongside your movement, aka spacing. This is an extremely simplified description that doesn't any of the terms justice but otherwise it'd be a huge essay.

An example of footsies, neutral and positioning in the video you linked is 0:10 where zadi tries to get out of the corner but because of raven's low airdash he trades with 6p and there's a rare instance where sol's 6p doesn't wallbounce like 99% of the time. Mocchi gets closer with his j.s and thinks zadi will respect the knockdown and goes for a fafnir which is slow but + and zadi interrupts with 4p.

Afterwards bc of distance he can't combo too much and mocchi almost has 2 bars with which he can threaten a 5s rrc whiff punish with the slightest forward walk that'll build him the last bit of meter, and because of that he expects zadi to respect him, so he airdashes in instead but zadi had dashed forward from a range where raven's dash is invulnerable and can immediately FD cancel it anyway.

Both players notice the exchange but zadi is the only one who has meter to do something about it and he YRCs to chase down the airdash, he threatens an immediate button/command grab/airdash but dashes in a bit too deep to force a reaction out of mocchi, which is why he wins by landing a counterhit 5hs.

All of these exchanges happen in literally 5 seconds.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Delete Variations
Delete Breakways and breakers
Delete overreaching normals
Delete pushback on moves that should be punishable aka fatal blows
Delete MK11 Meter System that fills automatically
Characters should be bound to general gameplay rules, i hate having to FLB cage and not be able to launch him because his D1 recovery even on FLB is too good.

 

[grandabx]

Please let characters and variations feel/play more distinct. Once again, the obvious example to me is that sub's ice clone equivalent is a "sometimes this is useful" option rather than playstyle defining.

Really kills the distinction between characters when they almost all feel like they're playing the same game with little variation.

I know what you mean. You like a character and have to compromise on how you're allowed to play with them. Almost like telling the player, "you can use your left hand here, but need to change to another variation to use your right hand", when you need both at some point.

 

[grandabx]

What can NRS learn from MK11?

1. Players want to express themselves in their gameplay. Otherwise they find something else to do.

2. Breakaways are a vastly weaker and unbalanced version of MK9/10 breakers. "Let's make a new breaker system that only works on air combos and punishes the combo-starter."

3. Armor Breakers don't fix the universal problems of Breakaways, but instead create more problems.

4. Auto-regenerating meter can make attacks stronger than they should be and also slow down the pace of matches.

5. Competitve players don't like being robbed by game mechanics.

6. Gamers don't want to be online to enjoy single-player content.

7. Creating "tournament" variations was a gigantic mistake.

8. Don't take a game out of the oven before it's ready.

9. Options are a good thing, but some are redundant.

10. Risk vs reward is a big factor in a good fighting game.

 

[Onryoki]

What they should learn after MK11 is not to leave Mileena out at launch

- Personally I would like the variation system disappear like when the avatar was needed the most. Characters feel incomplete now and their gameplay gets chopped into 3 different ways of playing (A mixup variation, combo variation and zoning variation). I would like them to just stick with one moveset that’s slightly larger. It feels more rewarding to play a game and to learn a character like that. Variation system was a cute experiment but it’s very 2015, totally done before MKX cosplay.

- Krushing Blows should leave, I am truly not a fan of this mechanic because it feels like the dozenth comeback mechanic in the game.

-Replace breakaway with combo breaker. Breakaway is just shit, I’m sorry but it’s shit.

- Fatal blows need to go, matter fact. NRS should learn not to put armor on a ultimate attack that takes 30 plus % health. I am not a fan of armored ultimate attacks since that’s just unnecessary to say the least.

 

[Mr.Khen]

• DLC transparency - map out the game dlc plan ahead of time.
  
  
• Communicate with the fans, respond to feedback coming from pro and pro-casual players.
  
  
• No more teasing something that's not coming, enough with the endless troll carrot and stick tactics.
  
  
• No more locking skins behind grind loot, or casino elements, this is a fighting game not Destiny 2 or Apex legends, I get it.. those titles make ton of money and NRS/WB wanted to bring that into a fighting game but that module just does not fit a fighting game.
  
  
• No more cheap breakaways - there's 0 talent involved in breaking away from a combo just because you can and land a punish for it .. yuk
  
  
• New players still find it hard to preform combos, my friends struggle with it as much as they did with MKX, even more! make an elaborate preset combo tutorial (long combos)
  
  
• Krushing blows should go imo
  
  - Fatal Blows (or whatever comes next) should be shorter.
  I can literally light up a spliff while Fatal Blows are running in the background...wait, is it really bad? conflicted lol
  
  
• I am not a huge fan of the current gear systems, I prefer finished skins with shaders
  
  
• Variations - if done the MKX way, I would much rather to have a well rounded character and more
  characters on the roster than having a few moves no one is able to use in a competitive mode / or aren't viable in kompetitve mode.
  
  
• Kill KL.
  
  
• Don't make this game about SF where we can have 5 soldiers but only 3 female ninjas in rotation
  
  
• Bring back mad combos you can lab for hours and each finds it's own playstyle within a character.

 

[PlusFrames]

One thing I want to add to this. Stop treating us like robots with no lives outside of MK.

I’d like to be able to go more than 3 days away from KL without losing points, or be able to get Krypt event items if I missed something once.

Why can’t I get Kitana’s story costume? It’s in the base game, and I pre-ordered the premium edition. Why can’t I have it? Because I missed a Krypt event? This isn’t some FTP mobile game so stop treating us like you’re doing us a favour for giving us the rare chance of getting something we paid for.

Sorry if that’s a bit ranty. I’m really stressed and I’m not sure this game is alleviating it, which is what I ultimately play video games for.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

One thing I want to add to this. Stop treating us like robots with no lives outside of MK.

I’d like to be able to go more than 3 days away from KL without losing points, or be able to get Krypt event items if I missed something once.

Why can’t I get Kitana’s story costume? It’s in the base game, and I pre-ordered the premium edition. Why can’t I have it? Because I missed a Krypt event? This isn’t some FTP mobile game so stop treating us like you’re doing us a favour for giving us the rare chance of getting something we paid for.

Sorry if that’s a bit ranty. I’m really stressed and I’m not sure this game is alleviating it, which is what I ultimately play video games for.

These things are quite telling of NRS' target demographic. It isn't those of us who were playing MK1 back in the day, now grown adults with jobs and lives and responsibilities. Hell they didn't even give you an opportunity in this game to PAY MONEY to buy things you want/missed. Oh that brute you wanted was in a tower that was only up for a few hours while you were at work? FUCK YOU. And no, you can't pay us money to unlock all brutes this time around. Get rekt loser.

 

[PlusFrames]

These things are quite telling of NRS' target demographic. It isn't those of us who were playing MK1 back in the day, now grown adults with jobs and lives and responsibilities. Hell they didn't even give you an opportunity in this game to PAY MONEY to buy things you want/missed. Oh that brute you wanted was in a tower that was only up for a few hours while you were at work? FUCK YOU. And no, you can't pay us money to unlock all brutes this time around. Get rekt loser.

They really doubled down on this with the KL too.

I’ve wanted a proper ranked mode in MK for a long time, but this aint it. I am way too busy, tired, and stressed today to play KL when I’m done work tonight, but guess what? I’ll lose points if i don’t.

I actually have fun playing the mode (the good netcode helps and i like the overall gameplay - minus a few issues with some of the mechanics), but they go the extra step to entice us by giving us skins and gear (that again we can only get within it) and punish us if we cant play a game, we paid for, on their schedule

I really hope they eventually do a plain ranked mode. No time limit, no resets, no point decay for inactivity, and no rewards. Let the joy of winning, ranking up, and seeing improvement be the reward.

The point system/ranks would have to be adjusted, etc, but i’d love it, and I think so would most of the people who take this game seriously. Hell, I disliked many things about SFV but played it for 4 years like an idiot for that alone.

Edit to add: Also, my main goal of KL isnt to earn skins/gear. My main goal was to take this season seriously, record my progress, and see if I can do better next time. Track my progress sort of a thing (in lieu of a proper ranked mode), and keep going, but this point decay really Fs with that.

 

[kingjolly]

I’m so glad I don’t really care about kombat league, brutalities and cosmetics. I can see how this game would stress people the fuck out.

 

[crosstalk]

The game is terrible and there are lots of things people have already mentioned but the thing that pisses me off the most is the complete lack of communication from NRS. I haven't seen a company not tell anything about their product this badly in a long time. The terrible lack of communication drives players away from the game. They need to do a way better job with this for their next fighting game.

 

[Swindle]

They don’t need to learn anything. They will reinvent their franchise again and again, taking risks and simultaneously frustrating and delighting their fan base. It is what they have always done, and it has brought them too much success to cease.
If they are going to learn anything, I would suggest home brewing.

 

[santanabar]

Games should have an identity. This game wants to be focused on neutral , footsies, etc, but have a bunch of moves that says YOLO FUCK IT: full screen fatal blows, armor, 30% dmg throws, 30% (at least) d2 crush blow.
Even though it doesn't have too many low/overhead 50/50s, MK11 it forces you to punished you more for just guessing wrong: mid or grab? delay wake up, roll or wake up buttons? he has KB, can I fucking push a button? of sorry he guess right and got armor in time, take this 30% unbreakable dmg.

Winning doesn't feel rewarding. Despite all his crazy stuff, MKX felt way more rewarding than this one. You had resource build and management. Different playstyles, even for the same characters. Ton of combo choices: end with a setup, hard knock down, spend or not extra bars, side switch, corner carry, consistent easy damage vs hard execution optimals.

Here, unless the skill level is way too big, most of the time I feel I won just because I guessed right more times than my opponent.
And let's not forget "custom moves". What's the point of that if you end up implementing weak ass variations that I doesn't make any sense.

Long story short, go all in for a style.
If you want a "footsies game", don't put fuck neutral moves.
If you want a game that feels rewarding, don't punish a player with a 30%+ unbreakable damage for guessing wrong.
If you go for a "create you own fighter", let players play with his own fucking fighters!