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What should NRS learn from MK11?

MEJBelloz

MEJBelloz

Noob
I agree, they clearly want to differentiate between its Injustice games and it’s Mortal Kombat games... I think this pigeon holes them into committing to some features for each franchise to ensure it keeps its identity.

I just want the next game to have some excitement in the gameplay and characters. When I used to play SFV I would live in the training room working on different things, but with MK11 I felt I was competent with a characters game plan in 30 minutes. The variations rarely changed how a character was played, rather you swapped one move out for another, with the normal buttons often remaining consistent.
 
NaughtySenpai

NaughtySenpai

Noob
MEJBelloz said:
I agree, they clearly want to differentiate between its Injustice games and it’s Mortal Kombat games... I think this pigeon holes them into committing to some features for each franchise to ensure it keeps its identity.

I just want the next game to have some excitement in the gameplay and characters. When I used to play SFV I would live in the training room working on different things, but with MK11 I felt I was competent with a characters game plan in 30 minutes. The variations rarely changed how a character was played, rather you swapped one move out for another, with the normal buttons often remaining consistent.
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MK11 has tons of shit to lab, sadly mostly on defense.

Playing the devil's advocate here, since I'm not a fan of NRS removing the stupid juggles that made previous games fun, but you really never run out of situations to lab in MK11.

You just can't do a lot of fancy combos, though there's a handful of impressive shit you can do with interactibles and Shang Tsung's morph though mostly not very practical.
Fujin, Upgraded Jacqui and that Sindel variation where she air cancels for days to get mediocre damage that I can do on Scorpion while being asleep and pressing 5 buttons, all show that they have high execution characters, but 3 is not enough imo. All of them become piss easy to use in every other variation as well , so it's not even advanced characters, just variations.

Dunno I like it when games have easy to use characters that are simple yet effective and high execution characters. The ratio in MK11 is really bad though.
 
Obly

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
I might be in the minority, but I think the idea of custom variations is great in theory and still could be great if NRS enables them in ranked.

Imo, the problem has always been that 'customizable variations' (pick and choose what you want, like a salad bar) goes terribly together with 'forced loadout choices (with forced restrictions)'.

NRS took the approach of mainly just making sure the forced loadouts have no moves in common. I get it; they wanted to make sure every variation got something 'good'. But in practice, it means most of them are also forced to take something bad. And a lot of the awkward, forced combinations have no real synergy together.

That's not at all how any normal player would go about customizing their variations. You're going to pick the best synergy, or the best match for your playstyle, or just the best moves, period. No one would choose to take a trash move just to make their loadout A 'fair' compared to their loadout B.

I mean, imagine if you went to the salad bar to make three salads, and there was a sign that said "You may add lettuce to only one of your salads." Or worse, "If you add lettuce, you must also add anchovies." Screw that... you'd find a new restaurant to eat at. It's not the variation system that's the problem; it's the illogical forced choices that make current variations so unsatisfying.

NRS had a great vision, tried to implement it, and realized too late they'd bitten off more than they could chew. I don't blame them for that part, but c'mon already... they really should have been working from day one to get rid of forced loadouts.
 
MEJBelloz

MEJBelloz

Noob
I don’t see variations going anywhere for MK12, it’s been a key selling point and identify of the last couple of MK games, same as traits for INJ.

Aside from the general suggestions around what they can learn from the previous games, it seems the main question is around what they need to learn from their variation implementation (especially in MK11).

Moving away from variations, what could NRS learn from other companies/FGs??
 
Pizza

Pizza

Thrill Kill
Variation system must be destroyed. It was a mistake.

edit:

Also, I would mention the terrible way they handled information before launch and especially the infamous Kombat Pack; but in the end I think WB is more responsible for that than NRS themselves. NRS can't say or do much when WB is the one calling the shots.
 
Demon_0

Demon_0

RIP Akira Toriyama
Make the game less scrub-friendly.

The game (online) is shit. The input delay feels like you can't react to jack shit even though you reacted correctly.

Secondly - almost everything feels like its safe to do (again) as far as online is concerned. Make certain moves really punishable. Scrubs keep spamming shit because they know they can get away with it 9 out of 10 times because of online.
 
spidey300

spidey300

Noob
don't do variations again unless they feel extremely confident about how they're gonna develop them. don't do fatal blows again; at least not like this.
 
Lt. Boxy Angelman

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Put a wifi filter in Ranked.
Kill the variations.
Put a wifi filter in Ranked, like you've had in all of your games since I think MK9.
Hire story writers who can write a competent story.
Hire Cary Tagawa to keep everyone in line.
Put a fucking wifi filter in Ranked.
 
E

Eji1700

Noob
Please let characters and variations feel/play more distinct. Once again, the obvious example to me is that sub's ice clone equivalent is a "sometimes this is useful" option rather than playstyle defining.

Really kills the distinction between characters when they almost all feel like they're playing the same game with little variation.
 
Gooberking

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
They could easily put a WiFi filter in this game and haven't. The only lesson to learn on that is likely us learning they don't want a WiFi filter in ranked. Allowing a large chunk of your more dedicated player base to wall themselves off inside their own bubble probably invalidates ranking to a large degree, and they can't make the world quit WiFi.

And how do you say to one group they have to play whomever the game picks, and to another they get to skip out on the majority of fights? I can say I skipped the fight because of WiFi, but maybe I'm glad to avoid the match because I'm sweating that Lao player card or the ping wasn't 80ms.

It's not impossible they might cave or come up with some compromise, but I kind of doubt they think it's a good idea.
 
PlusFrames

PlusFrames

Noob
Obly said:
they really should have been working from day one to get rid of forced loadouts.
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I have a feeling they planned to go to custom variations all along, but they kept the tournament variations for this long to extend the life cycle by breathing new life into the game when custom variations get released down the road.
 
PlusFrames

PlusFrames

Noob
I agree with the variation system, single player grind, and KL (wifi filter/decline option, no points reset, etc) comments so far.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet. NRS, please stop relying on mocap for everything. Some of these moves look like they were performed by someone getting into an odd position and posing in a kick motion over the span of 10 seconds, but it looks very unnatural when you speed it up to less than 1 second (low kicks seem to be the worst offenders). Maybe use mocap for ideas and certain things, but please feel free to animate some moves or get martial artists to perform them near the same speed that they will be shown at.

Also, while I get the desire to make single player a grind, not everyone has the time or wants this. Some people just want to buy the game and be able to hop online right away (or have a fun local multiplayer game in the house), and they want to make their favourite characters look great from the start. I have friends that haven’t bought the game because they dont want to grind towers for hours and i dont blame them... if you’re going to keep this grind stuff up, either allow us to start the game with more stuff (and allow the default stuff to actually look good), or give us like 10 free credits to buy any gear/skin we want.

Finally, delete tower modifiers forever, and stop retconning everything.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Kiss the Missile said:
I think thats the biggest issue. They tried to put balance above fun and it really shows. Almost every fucking Kombast Kast mentioned a character being "Super simple to use, not a huge combo character"
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I think people don't seem to understand that this was done to make the game more like MK2 and more focused on fundamentals. Like, not everyone has to like that style of game -- but it was an intentional choice, not an accident, and one that's skill in keeping with the MK lineage.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
623HS said:
yeah i don't get people's obsession over footsies at all, I think this site said it best, an fg can have plenty of neutral without having any footsies plus it's mostly just sf thing anyway https://sleepmodeblog.wordpress.com/2019/06/13/the-footsies-problem-misunderstanding-samurai-shodown/
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Footsies definitely aren't just a 'SF thing'. There are very few games that I'd describe as not having 'any footsies'.

And footsies are most definitely a part of MK9, IGAU, INJ2, and MK11.
 
Nephrite

Nephrite

#Fujin4MK12BaseRoster
Go back to displaying damage as percentage and not pts (this is trademark MK, why did you change it in the first place).

Get rid of the variation system.

Obliterate Special Forces (so sick of their guns, gadgets and similar looking uniforms).

Less new characters, more 3D era characters instead.

Give Sub-Zero his ice clone back and Sonya her leg grab if she's gonna be playable. Why on Earth are you removing trademark moves from characters?!

Fujin should be base roster in every game from now on. He's way too stylish, fun and sexy to leave out. It's only thanks to him that I still bother to check out MK11 streams and gameplay footage.

Thank you!
 
DarkSado

DarkSado

Noob
CrimsonShadow said:
Footsies definitely aren't just a 'SF thing'. There are very few games that I'd describe as not having 'any footsies'.

And they are most definitely a part of MK9, IGAU, INJ2, and MK11.
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IGAU Footsie you cant even walk in that game, even though I like the game but let us not Cap here LMAO.
 
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