Question What makes MK9 stand out?

[haketh]

Still waiting on evidence of anyone that's actually been CONSISTENTLY carried by their character in MKX

I could care less who plays it. That's not my goal.

I'm just trying to understand the disconnect between people who like MK9 as NRS' best fighter and the fact that no one plays it today.

Logistically, there's no reason why they can't.

I've had setups & asked people for games in MK9 the past two NWMs, no one ever bothers to play but then five minutes later they'll say MK9 is the God. Meanwhile I could spit and find people playing Def Jam FFNY, Melty, KoF98, ST, VSAV & ETC

Because there's no reason to

Competitors play for medals and money

Uuuuuuh theirs plenty of competitors in FGs that keep games going for the love of compeition & the game without the money. Look at the VSAV scene which is starting to grow again, the ST Community, the anime community for the longest time ETC

 

[virtiqaL]

NRS captured lightning in a bottle with MK9.

I sadly don't believe they or anyone else will ever release a fighting game that will hook me nearly as much as that game did.

 

[NSR]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I swear I remember hearing somewhere that nrs couldn't fix a lot of the shit in mk9 because of how the game was coded and it would have been a pain in the ass for them to fix. Again I don't know what my source is so if anyone who knows better wants to correct me feel free.

Nope, you are not wrong. MK9 was evidently the very first fighting game NRS did with a patch system in mind. And by this I mean, it's very, VERY, amateur like at parts, and downright idiotic at others.
Good example of broken coding?
Ok, Cyrax's net speed (this is not projectile velocity, this is the speed of Cyrax firing the net) is divided into SEVEN tweak variables (this is what NRS mostly used to incorporate the balance changes in the Komplete Edition, but these vars WERE present in vanilla, the way the old patch system worked was an mko file that had bytes here and there that override specific variables)
Now, out of these seven variables, guess how many work.
...only 2.
Yep. 5 variables that do fuck all.
First one is a general multiplier and affects all instances (Regular and EX, net available and unavailable). Third one controls the speed (Regular and EX) of the "net unavailable" animation (should be mentioned that you can't make it as fast as you could with the general multiplier, my guess is that some of the other variables would do something, but strangely, they do nothing) 2,4,5,6,7 do nothing.
Noob's Ghostball breakframe (internal name for recovery frames) has two variables, labelled as twkvar_noob_ghostball_breakframe and twkvar_ghostball_breakframe.
NEITHER OF THEM DO ANYTHING. I had to alter the speed (which thankfully had a part dedicated to the recovery) in order to upgrade his recovery.
I remember someone stating that during Injustice's development, Paulo said MK9's coding was a mess.
He wasn't lying, that's for sure.

 

[Baconlord]

Nope, you are not wrong. MK9 was evidently the very first fighting game NRS did with a patch system in mind. And by this I mean, it's very, VERY, amateur like at parts, and downright idiotic at others.
Good example of broken coding?
Ok, Cyrax's net speed (this is not projectile velocity, this is the speed of Cyrax firing the net) is divided into SEVEN tweak variables (this is what NRS mostly used to incorporate the balance changes in the Komplete Edition, but these vars WERE present in vanilla, the way the old patch system worked was an mko file that had bytes here and there that override specific variables)
Now, out of these seven variables, guess how many work.
...only 2.
Yep. 5 variables that do fuck all.
First one is a general multiplier and affects all instances (Regular and EX, net available and unavailable). Third one controls the speed (Regular and EX) of the "net unavailable" animation (should be mentioned that you can't make it as fast as you could with the general multiplier, my guess is that some of the other variables would do something, but strangely, they do nothing) 2,4,5,6,7 do nothing.
Noob's Ghostball breakframe (internal name for recovery frames) has two variables, labelled as twkvar_noob_ghostball_breakframe and twkvar_ghostball_breakframe.
NEITHER OF THEM DO ANYTHING. I had to alter the speed (which thankfully had a part dedicated to the recovery) in order to upgrade his recovery.
I remember someone stating that during Injustice's development, Paulo said MK9's coding was a mess.
He wasn't lying, that's for sure.

oh god I'm gonna have nightmares tonight after reading that. that sounds like a fucking mess

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Still waiting on evidence of anyone that's actually been CONSISTENTLY carried by their character in MKX


I've had setups & asked people for games in MK9 the past two NWMs, no one ever bothers to play but then five minutes later they'll say MK9 is the God. Meanwhile I could spit and find people playing Def Jam FFNY, Melty, KoF98, ST, VSAV & ETC


Uuuuuuh theirs plenty of competitors in FGs that keep games going for the love of compeition & the game without the money. Look at the VSAV scene which is starting to grow again, the ST Community, the anime community for the longest time ETC

Yea the people you speak of are either kids or casuals

If the best argument for this is vampire stalkers then I'm out

People that are seriously competing and spending time practicing Vampire stalkers worry me for their future

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Nope, you are not wrong. MK9 was evidently the very first fighting game NRS did with a patch system in mind. And by this I mean, it's very, VERY, amateur like at parts, and downright idiotic at others.
Good example of broken coding?
Ok, Cyrax's net speed (this is not projectile velocity, this is the speed of Cyrax firing the net) is divided into SEVEN tweak variables (this is what NRS mostly used to incorporate the balance changes in the Komplete Edition, but these vars WERE present in vanilla, the way the old patch system worked was an mko file that had bytes here and there that override specific variables)
Now, out of these seven variables, guess how many work.
...only 2.
Yep. 5 variables that do fuck all.
First one is a general multiplier and affects all instances (Regular and EX, net available and unavailable). Third one controls the speed (Regular and EX) of the "net unavailable" animation (should be mentioned that you can't make it as fast as you could with the general multiplier, my guess is that some of the other variables would do something, but strangely, they do nothing) 2,4,5,6,7 do nothing.
Noob's Ghostball breakframe (internal name for recovery frames) has two variables, labelled as twkvar_noob_ghostball_breakframe and twkvar_ghostball_breakframe.
NEITHER OF THEM DO ANYTHING. I had to alter the speed (which thankfully had a part dedicated to the recovery) in order to upgrade his recovery.
I remember someone stating that during Injustice's development, Paulo said MK9's coding was a mess.
He wasn't lying, that's for sure.

Fav post in this entire thread

I learned something

 

[Rude]

Yea the people you speak of are either kids or casuals

If the best argument for this is vampire stalkers then I'm out

People that are seriously competing and spending time practicing Vampire stalkers worry me for their future

You mean the game that's run solely by its community, that recently had its top 8 streamed live at Combo Breaker?

Playing for e-sports chump change(relative to the real gaming money in stuff like League, etc) doesn't mean you want to win any more than someone playing to be the best at their favorite game.

Your standards are hella narrow. When MK9 pot prizes barely covered your costs to travel to the event(like the SCR 16 Bit won, for example), it's obvious people weren't playing just for money.

MK9 is the best NRS game that no one plays.

 

[haketh]

Yea the people you speak of are either kids or casuals

If the best argument for this is vampire stalkers then I'm out

People that are seriously competing and spending time practicing Vampire stalkers worry me for their future

That's not even the biggest example, just the first one. You got the various KOF scenes in Mexico, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, the VF scene, DOA, Yadda Yadda. Hell we had people travel out here from Japan just to compete in ST with the American scene from Japan. Money aint the only factor for a lot of people in competing in FGs. If it was most of the Japanese scene would not be competing in anything seeing how cash payouts are low. No one is expecting huge money or extravagant ceremonies for MK9, just bizarre people talk about how much they love it but it's completely dropped off the planet.

Like you still got the huge East vs West Wars going on in 3S for the love of the game & people wanna still compete. Shit is anything but casual for people.

You got the Vampire Savior DCC & Super Turbo X-Mania still going on with huge number of teams including people travelling out. It's biz

 

[Rip Torn]

Yea the people you speak of are either kids or casuals

If the best argument for this is vampire stalkers then I'm out

People that are seriously competing and spending time practicing Vampire stalkers worry me for their future

What's Vampire Stalkers? Never heard of it...

But seriously, if a game is good, people will play it for a long time. People still play Super Turbo and they take it pretty seriously. There are some really old competitive scenes for games released ages ago. I'm sorry that you think everything is about money. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

What's Vampire Stalkers? Never heard of it...

But seriously, if a game is good, people will play it for a long time. People still play Super Turbo and they take it pretty seriously. There are some really old competitive scenes for games released ages ago. I'm sorry that you think everything is about money. You couldn't be more wrong.

By this logic the past 2 NRS games weren't good since no one plays them anymore. And lbsh not many ppl would play MKX right now if NRS stopped supporting. That means that none of these are good games?

 

[Rip Torn]

By this logic the past 2 NRS games weren't good since no one plays them anymore. And lbsh not many ppl would play MKX right now if NRS stopped supporting. That means that none of these are good games?

It's not logic, it's based on reality. People still play UMK3/MKTrilogy. I can't speculate on why people don't play Injustice or MK9 more, but that's up to the community as a whole to keep the game alive.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

It's not logic, it's based on reality. People still play UMK3/MKTrilogy. I can't speculate on why people don't play Injustice or MK9 more, but that's up to the community as a whole to keep the game alive.

You said if a game is good people will play it for a long time. The past NRS games haven't been played for that long.

 

[M2Dave]

Sonya was like an MKX character almost. D4 had long reach that initiated pressure and dumb EH Cartwheel was a safe armored launcher. Just missing the 50/50 element. And Kenshi was busted for that game. Worse than Kabal to me. Kabal didn't really lose to anybody but had many even matches. Kenshi might've had one or two (memory?) losing match-ups... but he obliterated outside of that.

The best zoning characters in Mortal Kombat 9 could at least zone Sonya. In Mortal Kombat X, she tosses a grenade, runs, and does safe 50/50 mix ups. When running and offense are so powerful, no zoning can save you.

By the way, Kabal had no even match ups at the highest level. Players who fought REO when he won two consecutive MLG tournaments know what I mean. I played Kabal for a living and still lost 10:4. The character is unbeatable. He has an answer for every situation. You either get zoned out if you are a rush down character or you get smothered if you are zoning character. I believe pre-patch Kung Lao had the equation to go even or beat Kabal, but he ended up being normalized.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

You mean the game that's run solely by its community, that recently had its top 8 streamed live at Combo Breaker?

Playing for e-sports chump change(relative to the real gaming money in stuff like League, etc) doesn't mean you want to win any more than someone playing to be the best at their favorite game.

Your standards are hella narrow. When MK9 pot prizes barely covered your costs to travel to the event(like the SCR 16 Bit won, for example), it's obvious people weren't playing just for money.

MK9 is the best NRS game that no one plays.

No we were playing and caring at that time because of evo

When evo went away ALL OF US WENT AWAY

I said money, Esl, evo, MLG .

When it all went away E V E R Y O N E - W E N T - A W A Y

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

That's not even the biggest example, just the first one. You got the various KOF scenes in Mexico, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, the VF scene, DOA, Yadda Yadda. Hell we had people travel out here from Japan just to compete in ST with the American scene from Japan. Money aint the only factor for a lot of people in competing in FGs. If it was most of the Japanese scene would not be competing in anything seeing how cash payouts are low. No one is expecting huge money or extravagant ceremonies for MK9, just bizarre people talk about how much they love it but it's completely dropped off the planet.

Like you still got the huge East vs West Wars going on in 3S for the love of the game & people wanna still compete. Shit is anything but casual for people.

You got the Vampire Savior DCC & Super Turbo X-Mania still going on with huge number of teams including people travelling out. It's biz

I'm not even defending mk9 as better

Just pointed why it died

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

What's Vampire Stalkers? Never heard of it...

But seriously, if a game is good, people will play it for a long time. People still play Super Turbo and they take it pretty seriously. There are some really old competitive scenes for games released ages ago. I'm sorry that you think everything is about money. You couldn't be more wrong.

Why is everyone focusing on $ when I clearly listed

$
Evo
Esl
MLG

Things that are bigger than local and majors

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

It's not logic, it's based on reality. People still play UMK3/MKTrilogy. I can't speculate on why people don't play Injustice or MK9 more, but that's up to the community as a whole to keep the game alive.

Like 14 people signed up for umk3 world finals last year

I can tell u why all the top players quit

See my previous 20 posts

@Rip Torn im in a private player group w over 50 players and everyone is currently saying "Mkx............because doesn't look like Esl and evo are coming back"

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

That's not even the biggest example, just the first one. You got the various KOF scenes in Mexico, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, the VF scene, DOA, Yadda Yadda. Hell we had people travel out here from Japan just to compete in ST with the American scene from Japan. Money aint the only factor for a lot of people in competing in FGs. If it was most of the Japanese scene would not be competing in anything seeing how cash payouts are low. No one is expecting huge money or extravagant ceremonies for MK9, just bizarre people talk about how much they love it but it's completely dropped off the planet.

Like you still got the huge East vs West Wars going on in 3S for the love of the game & people wanna still compete. Shit is anything but casual for people.

You got the Vampire Savior DCC & Super Turbo X-Mania still going on with huge number of teams including people travelling out. It's biz

What event did they travel to compete w ST

 

[Rude]

No we were playing and caring at that time because of evo

When evo went away ALL OF US WENT AWAY

I said money, Esl, evo, MLG .

When it all went away E V E R Y O N E - W E N T - A W A Y

Right, but we're saying it doesn't have to be that way. I understood you the first time.

If the majority of the NRS scene prefers MK9, there's nothing stopping a revival except people being unwilling to actually play it. That's been my point the whole time. If Smash, Vampire Savior, 3rd Strike, Super Turbo, etc players do it, there's no reason NRS scene can't, if that's the game they prefer.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Right, but we're saying it doesn't have to be that way. I understood you the first time.

If the majority of the NRS scene prefers MK9, there's nothing stopping a revival except people being unwilling to actually play it. That's been my point the whole time. If Smash, Vampire Savior, 3rd Strike, Super Turbo, etc players do it, there's no reason NRS scene can't, if that's the game they prefer.

Ok good luck to them

 

[Soul Bound X]

MK9 was fun and all, but people on TYM seem to be forgetting that Sonya existed. I can confidently say she has carried many people. You generally don't have to think much when you play her. I still like MK9 more than MKX. Sonya and Kenshi are my picks for characters that require little to no effort and can easily carry people...
@xKhaoTik
@RM AtK!

Sonya didn't win shit. Cage, kabal, lao, jax, kenshi, kitana, all have more tournament wins than her. Actually, back in mk9's prime, I seriously can't remember her winning anything. I'm not saying she is a bad character but she never proved that she was THAT good in tournament so complaining about her before the characters I mentioned doesn't make much sense to me. I was a cage player and I never had problems with sonya. And everyone kept saying she was suppose to be a bad mu for cage. Well I wasn't seeing it.

 

[Soul Bound X]

People stopped playing for the simple reasons I pointed out in my original post

No evo
No Esl
No $
Therefor no merit

Deep down this matters to competitors unless you play smash

You don't think people would keep playing if we had gotten one more patch?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Also, Who else aside from Skarlet had super plus block cancels? Another lie, and Skarlet needed because it was part of her meta to force people to block low to avoid it, so they could get opened up with a overhead. So the ex dagger canceling being +21 ensured her to link the 19f execution string which was her best string, it was a 2f link.

Kenshi ex spirit charge was +8 if not mistaken with the exact same startup frame, which is why it became dumb in the corner

Other than that, the one i recall having super plus hit advantage were Quan with his rune traps and Cyrax command throw that was +35 on hit granting a free jump in and the throw itself could tick from a jump in, 3 of these 4 characters were top 10.

This kabal super plus block advantage was another lie, aside from 2ndc which was +9, very dificult to jail consistently and only jailed because he had an 8f jab that was high, REO has proved that it was nearly impossible to jail people forever, aside from that all his NDC options were +1 and +2 on block, tops. and there were always gaps in between followups going from 5 to 12 frames of gap.

B12~NDC was +2 with a gap in between b1 and 2. F32~hooks and B12~hooks had a gap
People didn't explored much but the saw at point blank range was -14 or -15 sadly this was discovered later in the end of the lifspan of the game, character with 13 frames moves or under could punish the saw for days at point blank.


And he was the best character in the game.

 

[coolwhip]

No he's dead serious. Kabal Kenshi and cyrax didn't carry anyone. If you picked them up and expected them to do the work for you, you got embarrassed.


This game isn't MKX when you can just pick up alien and turn your brain off

Wait, who's being carried by Alien in MKX though? Like who wouldn't be good at the game but is making top 8's because of Alien?

Alien in the hands of players who are already super good at the game is super broke, but how is that different to REO virtually not losing a match in the second half of 2012 with Kabal (a character who's more broke, somehow)? When REO picked Lao and Kenshi, he wasn't nearly as successful. And yeah, you can claim he only did it for a little while before going back to Kabal, but then again, there's a pretty good reason for that...

 

[coolwhip]

Can we be real here? Kabal is just like Kang in Mkx. All be it the zoning is toned down some, the pressure is very similar. That said, Kabul would only be A or A+ tier in MKX.

It's just a different game where the meta doesn't revolve around pressure, footsies or zoning...it simply revolves around pressure into 50/50 for full combo.

Such a shitty design overall

Mike, I love you and all but this is insane. Wondering what Kabal would be like in MKX if you just teleported him into the game without making him suitable for it is a moot point and proves nothing. What matters is what he was like in the game he was in... As an overall character, he was no doubt more OP/broke than anything in MKX. Yes, maybe not as straightforward, required more execution/reads, and was more fun to watch/play (until everyone picked him up and it got tedious), but that character didn't even have a single 5/5 match-up.

I really think people are talking about this with some serious revisionist history. That wasn't the narrative in 2012/2013 at all. Kabal was fucked up and almost ruined the game.