What is the current state of Bane?

[Undergroundepict]

Make his normals better and give him better strings



done

I think his normals and strings are pretty damn good, with the exception of his lack of a viable mid.

I think what he needs most is a faster s2 and a buff to his plus frames to make the traps real. This would allow him to have some offense that isn't entirely dependent on trait from time to time, as well as a counter-poke meta that isn't entirely reliant on a -24 DP.

His biggest problem is that in order to sustain any offense he basically has to use his trait, which inevitably incurs a huge debuff penalty.

I would also reduce the penalty debuff has on his damage output and defense, particularly at higher levels.

And Clash resetting his 9 second debuff timer is ridiculous, and not balanced. I can live with how this narrows his potential offensive capabilities, due to the unclashable damage he is capable of, but the larger issue is that it essentially locks him out of using Clash for himself. All clashes during venom resetting his debuff to that of level 2 trait would be a tradeoff I can live with.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

I think his normals and strings are pretty damn good, with the exception of his lack of a viable mid.

I think what he needs most is a faster s2 and a buff to his plus frames to make the traps real. This would allow him to have some offense that isn't entirely dependent on trait from time to time, as well as a counter-poke meta that isn't entirely reliant on a -24 DP.

His biggest problem is that in order to sustain any offense he basically has to use his trait, which inevitably incurs a huge debuff penalty.

I would also reduce the penalty debuff has on his damage output and defense, particularly at higher levels.

And Clash resetting his 9 second debuff timer is ridiculous, and not balanced. I can live with how this narrows his potential offensive capabilities, due to the unclashable damage he is capable of, but the larger issue is that it essentially locks him out of using Clash for himself. All clashes during venom resetting his debuff to that of level 2 trait would be a tradeoff I can live with.

I bet you could fix a lot of problems with him by reworking trait like so:

• When Venom runs out, there's two separate periods: debuff (red bar, drains) and refill (white bar, fills up)
• Debuff state is only in effect during the first period, but Venom isn't reusable until the refill completes.
• This allows us to have a single, consistent debuff time that lasts for X seconds, regardless of how many tanks are used, but a longer amount of time to fill back up (using all 3 tanks means a long fill up time).

 

[Cursa]

I have the biggest love/hate relationship with this character.

 

[Cursa]

Committing to a -24 DP with no pushback in order to couterpoke is really fucking annoying now. I was alright with it when people weren't used to the matchup but it's a massive read for not much at all.

And like yeah he does probably the most damage in the whole game, but I think a lot of people fail to understand the actual consequences of going for said damage. He does the most in the game, in level 3 he takes the most in the game. Some characters have actual 100% combos against him when he's on debuff, and he can't 100% anyone in one combo AND is on level 3 debuff for MUCH longer than he's on level 3 buff.

I'd be very hesitant about changing anything about venom since it could ruin the game so easily just due to how it works, but I'm just gonna say that being on debuff as an already slow character with bad footsies, no fullscreen presence, the slowest buttons in the game, a big body, KIND OF SUCKS.

I seriously think he needs a 7-9 frame mid that is safe but it's whole string is unsafe on block i.e.S2 and 223. If S2 was faster he could counterpoke with little reward other than just making it his turn which isn't that scary when you're standing up, especially since backdashes are a thing, neutral and back jumps, and Bane has pretty trash footsies anyway so yeah. And 223 is unsafe on block at -8 which is possible to get away with but still pretty easy to consistently punish.

I wouldn't even mind if they made it even less safe but pls give him a mid. He has trash neutral, trash counter zoning, no zoning of his own, a terrible counter poking game, is unsafe on nearly all his mix, gets punished for using his character power, and everyone justifies it with "Armour and damage". Which are, again, both massively unsafe, his damage is the highest in the game but he gets massively punished if he doesn't get the right read. I've already explained debuff, but it's how many characters get like a free full combo punish on a good read of a tick throw, like MB B3 or some characters can get some of neutral jump I believe.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Okay, screw it, I’m gonna learn Bane. What characters do you guys feel Bane does well against? Like even or winning MUs

 

[thlityoursloat]

Okay, screw it, I’m gonna learn Bane. What characters do you guys feel Bane does well against? Like even or winning MUs

Fellow rushdown characters mostly. Bane's biggest weakness are characters who are very good at playing the lame game.

 

[Undergroundepict]

I have the biggest love/hate relationship with this character.

He's fun as hell to play. The raw power you feel when you make the right reads and steamroll your opponent on knockdown over and over again, responding to their backdash on wakeup with a dash forward b23 for a full combo and ending the game with 550+ unclashable damage into a command grab on trait level 3 is a rush unparalleled by anything any other character can offer you in this game.

That said, at least one of his options should be less risky than playing Russian Roulette with a double barrell shotgun.

Okay, screw it, I’m gonna learn Bane. What characters do you guys feel Bane does well against? Like even or winning MUs

Green Lantern is quite possibly his best MU.

He 5-5's Supergirl, Catwoman, and Black Adam, which does give him some value as a potential counterpick if your main happens to be weak against any of those top tiers.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

Fellow rushdown characters mostly. Bane's biggest weakness are characters who are very good at playing the lame game.

Faster rushdown characters and strong zoners.

 

[Cursa]

I don't see him winning the Black Adam Matchup either. BA has like 2 gaps in all his strings, zones and outfootsies the shit out of Bane. BA having a bad wakeup doesn't really count as a point for Bane for me since nearly every wakeup is pointless against Bane.

 

[Barrogh]

Faster rushdown characters

Ugh, are there any rushdowns slower than Bane?

BA having a bad wakeup doesn't really count as a point for Bane for me since nearly every wakeup is pointless against Bane.

But at least bad wake-ups make non-armored options, some of which are more rewarding, less risky.

 

[Cursa]

Ugh, are there any rushdowns slower than Bane?


But at least bad wake-ups make non-armored options, some of which are more rewarding, less risky.

True dat about the wakeups I guess but it's still a bad matchup for him. Don't orbs also count as a hit for armour?

Rushdown characters slower than Bane? Maybe Grodd? Grodd has a pretty average forward dash and a floaty jump, but armoured stampede and leap (although slow) is better than what Bane has in terms of mobility.

 

[sranc]

Bane has a great walk speed and dash, I wouldn’t say he has poor mobility

 

[Cursa]

Bane has a great walk speed and dash, I wouldn’t say he has poor mobility

His dash goes really far but it has quite a lot of recovery. He can't do the "Duck n dash" strategy against some zoners like others can.

 

[Wetdoba]

I think his normals and strings are pretty damn good, with the exception of his lack of a viable mid.

I think what he needs most is a faster s2 and a buff to his plus frames to make the traps real. This would allow him to have some offense that isn't entirely dependent on trait from time to time, as well as a counter-poke meta that isn't entirely reliant on a -24 DP.

His biggest problem is that in order to sustain any offense he basically has to use his trait, which inevitably incurs a huge debuff penalty.

I would also reduce the penalty debuff has on his damage output and defense, particularly at higher levels.

And Clash resetting his 9 second debuff timer is ridiculous, and not balanced. I can live with how this narrows his potential offensive capabilities, due to the unclashable damage he is capable of, but the larger issue is that it essentially locks him out of using Clash for himself. All clashes during venom resetting his debuff to that of level 2 trait would be a tradeoff I can live with.

Just make it like it was in IGAU:

If you are in venom when you clash you come out on that level of debuff. If you are in debuff when you clash you always come out at level 1 debuff

 

[Wetdoba]

I don't see him winning the Black Adam Matchup either. BA has like 2 gaps in all his strings, zones and outfootsies the shit out of Bane. BA having a bad wakeup doesn't really count as a point for Bane for me since nearly every wakeup is pointless against Bane.

There are so many wake ups in this game that are very good against bane. Since bane does not have the same knockdown advantage he has from igau anymore he cant do the whole d2 xx armor os whenever he wants. There are a shit ton of wake ups that are grab immune or multi hitting in this game which makes bane have to make some silly reads against certain characters when he knocks them down like WW or red hood or green arrow. Black adam having to literally sit there and eat whatever we want on just about any knockdown is huuuge in for this version of bane

 

[Cursa]

There are so many wake ups in this game that are very good against bane. Since bane does not have the same knockdown advantage he has from igau anymore he cant do the whole d2 xx armor os whenever he wants. There are a shit ton of wake ups that are grab immune or multi hitting in this game which makes bane have to make some silly reads against certain characters when he knocks them down like WW or red hood or green arrow. Black adam having to literally sit there and eat whatever we want on just about any knockdown is huuuge in for this version of bane

That's still like one thing for that matchup, I don/t think he's winning it still. Being free on knockdown is something that is available to every character against BA and he still wins a shitload of matchups despite that reason.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Iv started messing around with Bane a bit, I’m still trash with him and don’t consider myself particularly knowledgeable with him at all, but he has been a blast so far.

Iv changed my mind about him in one so far in that I definitely don’t see Bane as a bottom 5 character.

 

[Cursa]

Iv started messing around with Bane a bit, I’m still trash with him and don’t consider myself particularly knowledgeable with him at all, but he has been a blast so far.

Iv changed my mind about him in one so far in that I definitely don’t see Bane as a bottom 5 character.

I find that weird because since I started playing Bane I've begin to think he's closer to Bottom 5 than ever. Maybe not because he's inherently bad but more so because there are just better characters.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I find that weird because since I started playing Bane I've begin to think he's closer to Bottom 5 than ever. Maybe not because he's inherently bad but more so because there are just better characters.

He’s pretty dang close and I could be wrong. I think the character is good but not AS good as others. I’d put him over Cold, Grodd, Raiden, Green Lantern, Black Canary, Deadshot, Ivy, and maybe Joker.

 

[Cursa]

He’s pretty dang close and I could be wrong. I think the character is good but not AS good as others. I’d put him over Cold, Grodd, Raiden, Green Lantern, Black Canary, Deadshot, Ivy, and maybe Joker.

I'd probably put Cold, Raiden, and GL under him but I'm unsure about the others. I think Canary and Grodd are alright due to their mixups. I think the rest have pretty good tools but they're average and all they really got going for them. At least those three (Joker, Deadshot, Ivy) have some zoning tools to compensate.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I'd probably put Cold, Raiden, and GL under him but I'm unsure about the others. I think Canary and Grodd are alright due to their mixups. I think the rest have pretty good tools but they're average and all they really got going for them. At least those three (Joker, Deadshot, Ivy) have some zoning tools to compensate.

I think Grodd is trash and only has damage, Canary loses so many matchups and only wins a few, Deadshot can’t zone anymore and has the worst damage in the game, Joker’s footies are garbage and gunshot is his only real neutral tool, and Ivy can’t AA. Bane also suffers in the neutral but I think he can melt a life bar a lot faster when he DOES get going.

 

[Cursa]

Bane's major problem is that yes, once he does get going he melts life bars, but if you make a bad read there is a good chance you are getting full combo punished in debuff, and if you aren't in debuff then you will pretty much be by the end of the combo unless you're willing to keep it up and boost to higher levels while getting combo'd, but then you're sacrificing your venom time in the hope that you'll get something going.

His other MASSIVE problem is literally no good mids. His fastest mid is 12 frames. His D1 is 11 frames. If you're out of venom a lot of characters have like serious block pressure that they normally wouldn't have.How do you stop Robin from poking out of D12 on block without venom? D12 is -3 and Robin is crouching when he does it so S1 whiffs and gets punished, Bane has to commit to an armoured special which doesn't launch but is full combo punishable on block. It's just situations like that which I find make him bottom 5.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Bane's major problem is that yes, once he does get going he melts life bars, but if you make a bad read there is a good chance you are getting full combo punished in debuff, and if you aren't in debuff then you will pretty much be by the end of the combo unless you're willing to keep it up and boost to higher levels while getting combo'd, but then you're sacrificing your venom time in the hope that you'll get something going.

His other MASSIVE problem is literally no good mids. His fastest mid is 12 frames. His D1 is 11 frames. If you're out of venom a lot of characters have like serious block pressure that they normally wouldn't have.How do you stop Robin from poking out of D12 on block without venom? D12 is -3 and Robin is crouching when he does it so S1 whiffs and gets punished, Bane has to commit to an armoured special which doesn't launch but is full combo punishable on block. It's just situations like that which I find make him bottom 5.

That’s all fair and accurate and I can’t argue it

 

[Cursa]

That’s all fair and accurate and I can’t argue it

I just wish S2 or something was like 8 or 9 frames so you don't get literally block infinitied in debuff until you guess a mixup wrong.

 

[Wetdoba]

1. S2 8-9 frames

2. BF2 plus 20 on hit

3. Nerf Wonder woman

Character is good to go for the rest of the game