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Question - Kung Lao What Is His Best Variation Now?

HoangS-Z

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
Invincible Salads said:
Feast your eyes on this, and this is just one option he has off of ex low hat in the corner.

Click to expand...
I love it, it's seem useful and somehow similar to Sub-Zero's Klone trap style but Lao have to waste 2 bar of meter on the other hand Sub-Zero doesn't have to use MB, but Lao gains more damage
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
HoangS-Z said:
I love it, it's seem useful and somehow similar to Sub-Zero's Klone trap style but Lao have to waste 2 bar of meter on the other hand Sub-Zero doesn't have to use MB, but Lao gains more damage
Click to expand...
no different than lao's using ex teleport throw for a combo :), lao's are used to spending 2 bars for easy damage xP.

but its only one option, he's got plenty, from attempting a htb to just going back into pressure.
 
HoangS-Z

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
Invincible Salads said:
no different than lao's using ex teleport throw for a combo :), lao's are used to spending 2 bars for easy damage xP.

but its only one option, he's got plenty, from attempting a htb to just going back into pressure.
Click to expand...
Do you know how to do F3D3 after setting up the EX Upward Buzz Saw? I can't find any ways to press X while still holding Triangle at the same time in order to execute his hard to blockable combo
 
HoangS-Z

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
It's so unreal =))))) i don't even know how the hell could it works with those 2 buttons were pressed down at the same time, Triangle and X.... seriously? @@
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
honeybooboo said:
Why has kung lao been so difficult to learn... It literally took me twice as long to learn 112124, and the 44 link then it took me to learn a-list pressure. Not to mention i gave up on the instant dive kick combos for BS and the meterless HT combos eddy posted...
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he has a high execution barrier, which is why he is fun, if Lao was potato as any other potato character out there, you would see a lot of him.

I Like Lao because of this particular thing, he doesn't excel at anything else but damage, the rest is just fundamentals and execution game, and even at this, he is still weak considering his walkspeed back dash and terrible pressure.
 
HoangS-Z

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
Still. even though Buzz Saw is considered to be the better variation now but I see people are more relying on Tempest over Buzz Saw in the real match
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
HoangS-Z said:
Still. even though Buzz Saw is considered to be the better variation now but I see people are more relying on Tempest over Buzz Saw in the real match
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I think Buzzsaw is the best and has better answer vs zoners, Tempest is more versatile though.
And Hat Trick is not as bad as it used to be AT ALL.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
ismael4790 said:
I think Buzzsaw is the best and has better answer vs zoners, Tempest is more versatile though.
And Hat Trick is not as bad as it used to be AT ALL.
Click to expand...
Not as bad as it used to be at all, but still pretty bad, if this was the previous meta where everyone had armored launchers and his ex call back and ex spin had armor he would have been very good character.


The solely reason for you to lose to a hat trick player is lacking a 11f mid and being predictable as hell, Tempest and Buzzsaw have tools that keep any other character at bay because it puts KL at -5 at the very least with a push back, hat trick doesn't have this so he can't mask his neutral with hat spin or low hat.

Hat trick has no reliable dodges, horrible pressure and neutral setups, dive kick super risky to challenge pokes, ex TP or teleport into immediate 3 or 2 won't hit neutral crouch characters, every time you block any pressure he is forced to cancel into hat trap which is his safest option, but his safest option kills him, he becomes free to 11f mids, throws and d1s all the time.

Backdash won't escape 11f mids or 9f highs, tp armor will switch sides with the char and the position you will be set in you won't catch crouching character and neither you will get a combo conversion from it because it doesn't frame trap this way and of course if it hits, you're hatless, your only solution is to block and pray they don't start to throw you, because if they do you will start to get opened with mids.


The buffs NRS gave KL only helped him to get consistent damage off his bad options and that was it, hence why ex TP links from strings, B1 becomes 7f so it links from dive kicks, and call back juggle height was changed so he could convert easier, this surely helped him, but they killed him right away too.

The armored launcher nerf left KL a character with a bad neutral with NO WAKEUP, this has hurt KL like a LOT in hat trick, which made his pressure game even more less respectable


But all these look like nothing from this point of view, the real struggle begins when you pick the controller to use the variation and you will start to see where the game works against you to add to the bad things, like:
  • The character is very inconsistent to begin with, spin whiffs on B321 juggles if not frame perfect on heights.
  • Spin loses to certain jump attacks which are not even priority normals
  • F21 which is also his safe hit confirm string doesn't connect spin when it hits midscreen.
  • He is forced to use F23 which HAS A GAP and horrible frame data on block or cancel and his only midscreen string for mid hit punishes
  • B32 is hella slow although there is no special moves attached to it to buffer other specials moves
  • F2 buffers from Back and Down for stupid periods of time, if you block a low move instead of F2 you will get hat trap, playing footsies to whiff punish opponents makes you get hat toss instead of F2.
  • Canceling F23 with any hat trap to stay safe its still i10 punishable at the very least
  • hat traps can be option select with d1+block d1 only comes you of fake out, but if you try to frametrap ppl with call backs or hatarangs on scenarios that would be a gap, the poke will NOT come out, waste of time trying to open option select players with your only options to stay safe.
  • NO WAKEUP
  • J2 has nearly no hitbox, very hard to hit people with it now, hatless J2 is just as bad, most ppl neutral crouch J2 because they know it won't even hit
  • Lots of recovery on hat traps to begin with, safest setup is -6 which doesn't help KL with anything, its basically free to anything.
And then you have Perfect Legend challenging Sonic Fox into a 1st of 13 with Kung Lao, LOL.

But that's okay, you get a few damage and consistent fixes, and suddenly "he is not as bad as he used to be", i will say this once again, BEFORE THE XL Patch Hat Trick was much better than this, he didn't had dive kick combos or guaranteed ex tp combos but at least he had pressure, very good meter build, his comeback factor wasn't bind into a stamina bar, hatarang game had armor break setups to beat wakeups, s1 was more floaty and convertible, you could hat trap out of hatarang to keep your threats relevant, J2 worked hat or not hat, ex spin had armor which made meterless call back a respectable threat.

Paulo took all these away and the only thing he got in return in the final patch of the game was juggle height fix which he should have ages ago, a 7f high to punish things he could ex spin to punish on reversals, he having armor on ex spin justified his walkspeed because you could challenge people with it out of meterless call back so it posed as a mental plus threat, but then it was gone and Lao is now everybodys bitch unless is tempest or buzzsaw who got to keep their shit and with the buffs only got better at some aspects while their most reliable armor was gone.

There is a reason why F0xyGrampa and PL don't use Hat Trick, F0xy spotted this ages ago and decided to not main the variation even tho with the spin threat back then.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Eddy Wang said:
Not as bad as it used to be at all, but still pretty bad, if this was the previous meta where everyone had armored launchers and his ex call back and ex spin had armor he would have been very good character.


The solely reason for you to lose to a hat trick player is lacking a 11f mid and being predictable as hell, Tempest and Buzzsaw have tools that keep any other character at bay because it puts KL at -5 at the very least with a push back, hat trick doesn't have this so he can't mask his neutral with hat spin or low hat.

Hat trick has no reliable dodges, horrible pressure and neutral setups, dive kick super risky to challenge pokes, ex TP or teleport into immediate 3 or 2 won't hit neutral crouch characters, every time you block any pressure he is forced to cancel into hat trap which is his safest option, but his safest option kills him, he becomes free to 11f mids, throws and d1s all the time.

Backdash won't escape 11f mids or 9f highs, tp armor will switch sides with the char and the position you will be set in you won't catch crouching character and neither you will get a combo conversion from it because it doesn't frame trap this way and of course if it hits, you're hatless, your only solution is to block and pray they don't start to throw you, because if they do you will start to get opened with mids.


The buffs NRS gave KL only helped him to get consistent damage off his bad options and that was it, hence why ex TP links from strings, B1 becomes 7f so it links from dive kicks, and call back juggle height was changed so he could convert easier, this surely helped him, but they killed him right away too.

The armored launcher nerf left KL a character with a bad neutral with NO WAKEUP, this has hurt KL like a LOT in hat trick, which made his pressure game even more less respectable


But all these look like nothing from this point of view, the real struggle begins when you pick the controller to use the variation and you will start to see where the game works against you to add to the bad things, like:
  • The character is very inconsistent to begin with, spin whiffs on B321 juggles if not frame perfect on heights.
  • Spin loses to certain jump attacks which are not even priority normals
  • F21 which is also his safe hit confirm string doesn't connect spin when it hits midscreen.
  • He is forced to use F23 which HAS A GAP and horrible frame data on block or cancel and his only midscreen string for mid hit punishes
  • B32 is hella slow although there is no special moves attached to it to buffer other specials moves
  • F2 buffers from Back and Down for stupid periods of time, if you block a low move instead of F2 you will get hat trap, playing footsies to whiff punish opponents makes you get hat toss instead of F2.
  • Canceling F23 with any hat trap to stay safe its still i10 punishable at the very least
  • hat traps can be option select with d1+block d1 only comes you of fake out, but if you try to frametrap ppl with call backs or hatarangs on scenarios that would be a gap, the poke will NOT come out, waste of time trying to open option select players with your only options to stay safe.
  • NO WAKEUP
  • J2 has nearly no hitbox, very hard to hit people with it now, hatless J2 is just as bad, most ppl neutral crouch J2 because they know it won't even hit
  • Lots of recovery on hat traps to begin with, safest setup is -6 which doesn't help KL with anything, its basically free to anything.
And then you have Perfect Legend challenging Sonic Fox into a 1st of 13 with Kung Lao, LOL.

But that's okay, you get a few damage and consistent fixes, and suddenly "he is not as bad as he used to be", i will say this once again, BEFORE THE XL Patch Hat Trick was much better than this, he didn't had dive kick combos or guaranteed ex tp combos but at least he had pressure, very good meter build, his comeback factor wasn't bind into a stamina bar, hatarang game had armor break setups to beat wakeups, s1 was more floaty and convertible, you could hat trap out of hatarang to keep your threats relevant, J2 worked hat or not hat, ex spin had armor which made meterless call back a respectable threat.

Paulo took all these away and the only thing he got in return in the final patch of the game was juggle height fix which he should have ages ago, a 7f high to punish things he could ex spin to punish on reversals, he having armor on ex spin justified his walkspeed because you could challenge people with it out of meterless call back so it posed as a mental plus threat, but then it was gone and Lao is now everybodys bitch unless is tempest or buzzsaw who got to keep their shit and with the buffs only got better at some aspects while their most reliable armor was gone.

There is a reason why F0xyGrampa and PL don't use Hat Trick, F0xy spotted this ages ago and decided to not main the variation even tho with the spin threat back then.
Click to expand...
What if I told you that you just got baited...?:cool:

Nice essay though.
 
Captain l2ed

Captain l2ed

White wolf
I'll keep it short and sweet. Imo buzzsaw is overall the best but tempest is maybe a smidge below it and Hattrick is Hella fun but bad.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Eddy Wang said:
The truth needs to be spoken, NRS screwed up KL pretty bad in MKX, even Tweedy kept it real about where the character true placement after the final patch shootouts.
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Anyway, mkx talk is just for fun at the moment. Even myself have lost hope for another patch happening now lol. Nothing will change.
 
llabslb

llabslb

R1D1_998
Tempest is still the best. You just have a reason to choose Buzz Saw in a MU over tempest now, doesn't mean Buzz saw > Tempest. Eddy the issues you mentioned don't really affect me much other than his wakeup tbh. Even then I feel like you can work with it.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
llabslb said:
Tempest is still the best. You just have a reason to choose Buzz Saw in a MU over tempest now, doesn't mean Buzz saw > Tempest. Eddy the issues you mentioned don't really affect me much other than his wakeup tbh. Even then I feel like you can work with it.
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u guys don't play hat trick, and if you do, play me or @Immortal for instance, i can show you why this variation is the most affected by the lack of safeness you can't do much while being at -6, is either you block throws or get bodied by 11f mids.
 
llabslb

llabslb

R1D1_998
Eddy Wang said:
u guys don't play hat trick, and if you do, play me or @Immortal for instance, i can show you why this variation is the most affected by the lack of safeness you can't do much while being at -6, is either you block throws or get bodied by 11f mids.
Click to expand...
Notice how I didn't mention hat trick. I don't even want to waste time talking about it and btw, I play some hat trick I've been playing it for a while now.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
llabslb said:
Notice how I didn't mention hat trick. I don't even want to waste time talking about it and btw, I play some hat trick I've been playing it for a while now.
Click to expand...
And as i said before, these changes affect hat trick more, the other two variations not really because they can mask either with hat spin or low hat.
 
HoangS-Z

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
Does anyone notice that Upward Buzz Saw is +22 on hit? Has anyone try some new stuff with it? Maybe some pressure, not that HTB set-up because it's impractical in real match
 
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