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Question - Kung Lao What Is His Best Variation Now?

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Oh my days i'm practicing that Instant Dive Kick, i can do it better now but still inconsistent especially when i compete to someone, i feel that the timing of Instant Dive Kick between B321 and B22 is different. Do you have any special tips to do it consistently?
@Boss Savage noticed that when his hat lights up blue on his head after he throws the straight hat, that's when you jump then dive kick. I don't use that method, I can just kinda tell when to jump
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Tempest has better meterless damage by about 5%ish across all combos, has better pressure with +7 EX hat, and has better oki with orbiting hat.

Buzzsaw has better neutral with his low hat zoning, up hat to anti air, and straight hat that you can run behind and convert with combos if the straight hat anti airs. Also better mixups, but with practice B2 low hat or B22 can be fuzzied.

It's hard to say which is better honestly, just depends on preference and also depends on what character you are fighting against. If you can't hit the hat spin 44 link consistently for that great meterless damage, then Buzzsaw is for sure better for you
 

xAnxiety

d4 low hat
In my honest opinion I think you need to be able to play both in order to do well. Buzz saw might be the better variation overall but Tempest really will save your ass in match ups buzz saw just doesn't deal with well. So if you're gonna play Lao I'd recommend learning both, even if you're gonna be mainly playing Buzzsaw
 

Tweedy

Champion
Tempest has better meterless damage by about 5%ish across all combos, has better pressure with +7 EX hat, and has better oki with orbiting hat.

Buzzsaw has better neutral with his low hat zoning, up hat to anti air, and straight hat that you can run behind and convert with combos if the straight hat anti airs. Also better mixups, but with practice B2 low hat or B22 can be fuzzied.

It's hard to say which is better honestly, just depends on preference and also depends on what character you are fighting against. If you can't hit the hat spin 44 link consistently for that great meterless damage, then Buzzsaw is for sure better for you
According to the frame data, both hits of B22 are 18 frames. Low hat is also 18 frames.

So is the frame data wrong?
 

honeybooboo

I speak truth, no lie
Why has kung lao been so difficult to learn... It literally took me twice as long to learn 112124, and the 44 link then it took me to learn a-list pressure. Not to mention i gave up on the instant dive kick combos for BS and the meterless HT combos eddy posted...
 

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
Yes, Kung Lao is sure hard to learn but i'm a big fan of his so i'm getting thru all of them. No pain no gain, in overal he's still a good character and u can see the fury when Foxy Grampa use him in many fights ;)
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
You seriously think people who can't link hat spin 44 will be able to link Buzz Saw's straight hat instant dive kick combo consistently? :DOGE
Yeah it's totally different. The dive kick you just have to do fast as possible, as long as you do it instant and fast then you're good. Hat spin 44 is more of a timing thing, if you do it too early then you drop the link and if you do it too late you drop the link.

Some people may be better at doing things instant or fast, and some people may be better at timing. They're two entirely different executions
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
According to the frame data, both hits of B22 are 18 frames. Low hat is also 18 frames.

So is the frame data wrong?
The frame data may or may not be wrong, I'm not sure. All I know is when I was playing PL at Combo Breaker (you can watch the match on Youtube) I was blocking hella mixups. I don't even fight vs Buzzsaw alot, and I never took it into training mode before to practice blocking against the mixup. It's hard to explain, but when I was playing in that match there was a natural fuzzy that I learned on the spot, and it was really tough for him to open me up. It felt like the low hat was faster than the 2nd B2
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I'm not understanding. I said I block it just fine. I never said "it's not a htb" did I? Lol
how the heck is it a HTB if. in your very words, people are "bad if they get hit by it because you can block it every time"

thats not a hard-to-block at all, the whole point of the word is that it means that its the closest thing to unblockable in the game


regardless, that's just terminology, and this is just getting more and more ridiculous every post you make

you can block a 1f overhead/low link, that might also be low/overhead and is a true 50/50, every single time? And anyone who can't do that is bad? with fuzzy skills like that, are you just impossible to mix-up? Do 50/50's even exist to you, I mean even Ermac's 50/50 has 3 frame's gap between it, that's a much easier fuzzy?

cmon man you gotta stop the HTB downplay nobody was even IMPLYING Buzz Saw is op
 
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ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
In my opinion Buzzsaw is the best variation. He covers the screen the best, he gets the mixing, he now gets meterless damage as you said, he can zone, he's just as safe as Tempest except he has less gaps, and I like the fact that you don't have to end his combos in 21. The way I play Buzzsaw is ending everything in F14. It's a hard knockdown, it gets more damage, and you get easy to time god like Oki off of it. Everyone getting 2 hits of armor hurt Tempest Oki. Also I like D4 into Low Hat with Buzzsaw. It's a good counterpoke and some characters actually have to hold that. The only thing Tempest has over Buzzsaw to me is meterless damage
F14 is actually not a hard knockdown. Your opponent can tech roll and quick stand up. It's not good to do F14 at the end of a long combo because of the scaling, your opponent could tech roll and quick stand and actually recover faster than Kung Lao or close to neutral
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
F14 is actually not a hard knockdown. Your opponent can tech roll and quick stand up. It's not good to do F14 at the end of a long combo because of the scaling, your opponent could tech roll and quick stand and actually recover faster than Kung Lao or close to neutral
You must be thinking of a different string. Not only did I double check it before I said it (cuz on tym if you get one thing wrong you know nothing about the game lol.) but I also checked it just now. Ai will not tech roll after F14. And actually it gets scaled the least. It's 2 hitting 12%. I'll give an easy example. 11212 xx spin, run S4 xx up hat, 21 is 25%. If you do that exact combo with F14 as the ender you get %27 into a hard knockdown
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
let me explain it

Tremor can end a combo in the corner in 123~exUprock

he can then oki with B3[rock hits]~Overhead Punch

OR

he can not press B3 on immediate, and oki with B3 hitting immediately after the rock hits, like

[rock hits]B3~Overhead Punch


both give you the exact same combo, and you make the overhead or low come first and both times within a frame of each other

this is Tremor's HTB, the 50/50 part is largely irrelevant. if ur blocking it everytime your opponent is mistiming it
Have you tested this post patch? I thought got this removed a while ago.

Off topic i know but if he still has this theres no doubt in my mind Tremors top tier.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Have you tested this post patch? I thought got this removed a while ago.

Off topic i know but if he still has this theres no doubt in my mind Tremors top tier.
yeah triple tested before i made the post, because the way he was saying you can't do it made me do a double take, and you definitely can
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
For starters, good htb's there's a tight link and you don't know whether you're gonna get hit by the overhead or the low first (Summoner as one example). If you get hit by Tremors htb for instance, youre bad. That link is tight af and I block it every time. Ask @Marinjuana . And bringing up F4 is pointless lol. If you're tryna end the game against someone with 14-15% or less then sure. Also none of his setups are real
Please post footage of your gameplay. I'd rather see you do what you're claiming in an actual match rather than ask one of your friends about it.

Actual evidence > Anecdotal evidence.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
It wouldn't really take long. Run a match, hit the "share" button, upload it somewhere. Literally anyone could do it, so I don't think there's any reason not to @TheGangstaFace
 

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
Don't ever end combos with that in the corner! It is punishable on hit!
Even in the midscreen, i watched FT10 match between Foxy Grampa and Sonic Fox. I saw him use B122+4 a lot in the midscreen as a combo ender. Whenever he does it he loses his turn. Sonic Fox can tech roll fast as hell and can move around on the ground easily like nothing has happened, Sonic can throw the ice ball instantly or jump forward to avoid Foxy's Low Grinder. That's why i really don't think that string is a good combo ender, i'd rather use B12 Spin to end the combo for a hard knockdown and build meter.
 

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
the only good ender is 21 imo
In some BnB combo you cannot link 21 as a combo ender, for example F24 - S4 Straight Hat- Instant Dive Kick - B21 Spin, you cannot link 21 after that Dive Kick, it will whiff. If you want to use 21 u have to connect J3 - Dive Kick but it's extremely hard to do and even some good Buzz Saw's players can't link it consistently during a match
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
What exactly are you doing? I don't see anything where you go overhead then low htb for a full combo. Ex Upward hat doesn't combo unless it catches someone in the air. If you do a jump attack that's not even a htb and it's reactable. And if you do 44 before the low hat, you can't combo
bruh, have you even seen takeda players do the same exact shit with ex kunai ? its legit, you have no idea what your talking about, also its actually much easier to switch from ji3 to ji1 if you want to make the over head hit first. yes armoring is an option, but when isnt it? its almost always an option on these sort of things....and if they have no meter they have to hold it.

i havent fully explored everything yet, it may be possible to get a combo in the corner off of ex throw and releasing ex low hat. quan chi can do something similar with his bat in the corner.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
You must be thinking of a different string. Not only did I double check it before I said it (cuz on tym if you get one thing wrong you know nothing about the game lol.) but I also checked it just now. Ai will not tech roll after F14. And actually it gets scaled the least. It's 2 hitting 12%. I'll give an easy example. 11212 xx spin, run S4 xx up hat, 21 is 25%. If you do that exact combo with F14 as the ender you get %27 into a hard knockdown
I might have been thinking of a different string actually. Is F14 when he does the downward punch into the low kick? I never use that string lol
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
I might have been thinking of a different string actually. Is F14 when he does the downward punch into the low kick? I never use that string lol
Yeah. I'm telling you it's a good ender. Check it out. It's especially good against characters that typically do raw wakeups like Cassie, Lao, Jax, Sub, etc. cuz it's easy as hell to stuff them with B3. So if they attempt a raw wakeup, bam 32% combo into another hard knockdown
 

WiseM0nkey

welcome to the ButtSlam
In some BnB combo you cannot link 21 as a combo ender, for example F24 - S4 Straight Hat- Instant Dive Kick - B21 Spin, you cannot link 21 after that Dive Kick, it will whiff. If you want to use 21 u have to connect J3 - Dive Kick but it's extremely hard to do and even some good Buzz Saw's players can't link it consistently during a match
i mean generally. there are some situations where you cant convert 21 due to the added gravity, but yeh, you wanna end with 21. in the corner it's mandatory.