Question - Ancestral What is Ancestral lacking?

[YOMI_SLAYER]

My thoughts on ancestral is that he has the potential to be solid, but when he does not have a stun arrow out he has little resources and cannot get any damage. The only fix he needs is to be able to do like a 11 or 111 into stun arrow load and be able to combo off of it(they would have to scale his damage slightly though). If the stun arrow did not dissipate after only a few seconds that would be great. The only safe arrow load is off of f243 and the only plus string on hit into arrow load is 11. So if you don't have an arrow loaded and someone does something unsafe the optimal thing to do it 11 stun arrow load and then go for a mix up... Which is a garbage ass option. This is my favorite variation but it is in a dark place, I'm surprised all of you Ancestral players "Stick" around.

 

[Youphemism]

Yeah I don't get why his recovery is still he same, I would trade the damage in a heartbeat for quicker startup & recovery

Because the only thing NRS have seen of this variation is Chris G playing him once or twice and he manages to do fine so they don't see what needs changed. To be fair I only figured out the arrow load cancel data for one thing not too long ago and that's one thing wrong with Ancestral but they should've been able to figure out from the lack of Ancestral discussion in general that it was an underwhelming variation as it is. Are they scared of introducing more zoning variations in this game or something? Lol

My thoughts on ancestral is that he has the potential to be solid, but when he does not have a stun arrow out he has little resources and cannot get any damage. The only fix he needs is to be able to do like a 11 or 111 into stun arrow load and be able to combo off of it(they would have to scale his damage slightly though). If the stun arrow did not dissipate after only a few seconds that would be great. The only safe arrow load is off of f243 and the only plus string on hit into arrow load is 11. So if you don't have an arrow loaded and someone does something unsafe the optimal thing to do it 11 stun arrow load and then go for a mix up... Which is a garbage ass option. This is my favorite variation but it is in a dark place, I'm surprised all of you Ancestral players "Stick" around.

I guess you missed this which I spent two days calculating lol: http://testyourmight.com/threads/ancestral-load-arrow-cancel-frame-data.56030/ There's actually more safe cancels than F243 and 11, but not many Glad you're coming to bring in your info too, should help!

I think we all seem to agree being able to start a combo, cancel into load then be able to continue the combo is an important buff as well as removing the timer from stun arrow since we're only getting one or the other way round. I personally think removing recovery frames from arrows is the most important one though since it's supposed to be a zoning variation but we'll see what happens come KP2 I guess...

 

[7L]

But savage blast would make me feel at home @Youphemism q.q

I averaged a solid 27.34 savage blasts per match back in my day. He needs it, I need it, we need it.

 

[RM NoBrows]

F2D1~up arrow, 34~up arrow, D1~low arrow in the corner. It's in the OP of the Ancestral discussion thread I think.

...or that, which is better and I'm going to add to the OP of the thread now lol. That corner only I take it NoBrows?

Yep. Can't get more than one midscreen

 

[CoolChameleon]

He should get a string like kotals 114 that lets him setup a arrow right after it on block, and not get punished for it.

 

[Youphemism]

He should get a string like kotals 114 that lets him setup a arrow right after it on block, and not get punished for it.

He has two, three if you count the one that's -6: http://testyourmight.com/threads/ancestral-load-arrow-cancel-frame-data.56030/

 

[CoolChameleon]

He has two, three if you count the one that's -6: http://testyourmight.com/threads/ancestral-load-arrow-cancel-frame-data.56030/

Oh, i picked him up like a day ago so I'm a kung jin noob.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Why don't they just get rid of timers and just give him the green arrow effect.

-increase the load time of the arrows slightly.
-load 1 stun arrow
-load 2 meter drain arrows
-load 3 fire arrows


He should be good to go with that.

 

[Bomborge]

Why don't they just get rid of timers and just give him the green arrow effect.

-increase the load time of the arrows slightly.
-load 1 stun arrow
-load 2 meter drain arrows
-load 3 fire arrows


He should be good to go with that.

Probably because it'd be unoriginal. I still remember the backlash when they announced ancestral as a variation and people were bitching about it being green arrow 2.0. They do that and itll be even worse.

 

[RM Truth]

I'm not an Ancestral player by any means. Reading some of his issues from you guys, maybe this could be ideal.

-Double all quiver timers and remove autoblock when loading
-Reduce recovery on arrows when loaded by 5 frames
-Fire quiver now adds blowback property on block

Majin Boo?

 

[Enexemander]

Probably because it'd be unoriginal. I still remember the backlash when they announced ancestral as a variation and people were bitching about it being green arrow 2.0. They do that and itll be even worse.

This doesn't make much sense to me. It's the same design but not (as?) effective with the very short timer. Extending the timer or making it permanent doesn't change the fact that it has similar functionality to Green Arrow.

 

[Bomborge]

This doesn't make much sense to me. It's the same design but not (as?) effective with the very short timer. Extending the timer or making it permanent doesn't change the fact that it has similar functionality to Green Arrow.

I wish they would do either. What I'm saying is that if NRS made loading arrows work just like green arrow's, there would be a lot of backlash for "lazy" design.

 

[iMileena]

Turn that 6 second off, should be able to keep my stun arrow until i throw it instead of it wareing out smh.

 

[Karnage]

Why don't they just get rid of timers and just give him the green arrow effect.

-increase the load time of the arrows slightly.
-load 1 stun arrow
-load 2 meter drain arrows
-load 3 fire arrows


He should be good to go with that.

Yes!! Completely agree with this. I am also going to be pretty controversial.

LET HIM BE ABLE TO CANCEL ARROWS - not for block adv or combos, purely for the mixup capabilities.

Might be able to do some of the GA cheese again...ahhh the memories.

 

[GreatKungLao]

I think that Ancestral needs one major buff in coming patches:

Remove timer from all arrows and made quantity instead:

• 1 stun arrow;
• 5-10 fire arrow;
• 5-10 meter taking arrows.

 

[HappyPow]

Lol thread back from the dead :
IMO the only thing he needs is the low arrow becoming -6 no matter what I would love it.

 

[Youphemism]

Lol thread back from the dead :
IMO the only thing he needs is the low arrow becoming -6 no matter what I would love it.

Nah he doesn't need that, most of his strings aren't really unsafe anyway and even when cancelled into reload most of his important strings aren't unsafe. Reduced recovery on his variation specific arrows and the timer removed from stun arrow is all he needs tbh.

 

[HappyPow]

Nah he doesn't need that, most of his strings aren't really unsafe anyway and even when cancelled into reload most of his important strings aren't unsafe. Reduced recovery on his variation specific arrows and the timer removed from stun arrow is all he needs tbh.

I don't know... I mean I played him a lot lately and I feel that he is fine the way he is except for that low arrow.
The fact is : Yeah, he is safe on all of his important strings but you drop the pressure too quickly NO MATTER WHAT.
I'm ok a 50/50 into a 50/50 is kinda unfair : Except when you do 3%on block, give the pressure to your opponent and that guy can do + than 5% and even do an Ex Armored launcher after a few negative string (almost every characters) then IMO you need a safe option even if you have already 4 other options (Only one good but need a meter then the 3 other aren't good).
Reduce recovery? You can instant dive, read a high and poke, EX DB4 or BF3. Also his range is awesome so you can still use it, take arrows and Start 11 (anti-airs + quick move ~8 frames?)... I mean, it is a fighting game, right? The point is not to keep talking, let your opponent do something xD (This is not training mode).
No timer on the stun? Could be cool but it is an open too free mindgames so in my opinion it would be broke.... BROKE!!!! Lol

 

[Youphemism]

I don't know... I mean I played him a lot lately and I feel that he is fine the way he is except for that low arrow.
The fact is : Yeah, he is safe on all of his important strings but you drop the pressure too quickly NO MATTER WHAT.
I'm ok a 50/50 into a 50/50 is kinda unfair : Except when you do 3%on block, give the pressure to your opponent and that guy can do + than 5% and even do an Ex Armored launcher after a few negative string (almost every characters) then IMO you need a safe option even if you have already 4 other options (Only one good but need a meter then the 3 other aren't good).
Reduce recovery? You can instant dive, read a high and poke, EX DB4 or BF3. Also his range is awesome so you can still use it, take arrows and Start 11 (anti-airs + quick move ~8 frames?)... I mean, it is a fighting game, right? The point is not to keep talking, let your opponent do something xD (This is not training mode).
No timer on the stun? Could be cool but it is an open too free mindgames so in my opinion it would be broke.... BROKE!!!! Lol

If low arrow was -6 you'd still lose your pressure in the exact same way so I don't see why cancelling into a safe arrow load is the same as that lol.
He does have safe options, he doesn't need low arrow to be safe as well.
Yes, reduce the recovery on the variation-specific arrows. Divekicks, pokes and his kick specials have nothing to do with that...I don't understand what your point is in that part.
An open to free mindgames? And how would that be broke?! It would give him a way to consistently get his damage instead of doing something like a 12% combo into reload all the time. What would be broke is having no timer on the stun arrow and a safe low arrow.
Having a safe low arrow makes no sense because he already has multiple safe options, giving him another safe option doesn't fix his problems. It's like giving Goro another safe armoured move, it doesn't make any sense to give him it because having safe armoured moves is not a problem for him since he already has punchwalk.

 

[Parasurama]

I don't know... I mean I played him a lot lately and I feel that he is fine the way he is except for that low arrow.
The fact is : Yeah, he is safe on all of his important strings but you drop the pressure too quickly NO MATTER WHAT.
I'm ok a 50/50 into a 50/50 is kinda unfair : Except when you do 3%on block, give the pressure to your opponent and that guy can do + than 5% and even do an Ex Armored launcher after a few negative string (almost every characters) then IMO you need a safe option even if you have already 4 other options (Only one good but need a meter then the 3 other aren't good).
Reduce recovery? You can instant dive, read a high and poke, EX DB4 or BF3. Also his range is awesome so you can still use it, take arrows and Start 11 (anti-airs + quick move ~8 frames?)... I mean, it is a fighting game, right? The point is not to keep talking, let your opponent do something xD (This is not training mode).
No timer on the stun? Could be cool but it is an open too free mindgames so in my opinion it would be broke.... BROKE!!!! Lol

I would be happy if there was no arrow timer or if it was very easy or safer to just buff arrows like how blood god is able summon totems on different block strings. The totems are much better though especially the defensive totem since you can just block and reap the rewards.

 

[HappyPow]

If low arrow was -6 you'd still lose your pressure in the exact same way so I don't see why cancelling into a safe arrow load is the same as that lol.
He does have safe options, he doesn't need low arrow to be safe as well.
Yes, reduce the recovery on the variation-specific arrows. Divekicks, pokes and his kick specials have nothing to do with that...I don't understand what your point is in that part.
An open to free mindgames? And how would that be broke?! It would give him a way to consistently get his damage instead of doing something like a 12% combo into reload all the time. What would be broke is having no timer on the stun arrow and a safe low arrow.
Having a safe low arrow makes no sense because he already has multiple safe options, giving him another safe option doesn't fix his problems. It's like giving Goro another safe armoured move, it doesn't make any sense to give him it because having safe armoured moves is not a problem for him since he already has punchwalk.

Even if you lose the pressure from a -6 you could at least have the meter build of the cancel and of the hit on block. Also you would be able to do an Ex Armor.
No timer Arrow? Yeah broke, the character can do B21 overhead (or B214 into sp overhead) or cancel ANYTHING into special overhead + the fact it would be really easy for whiff punishes and in react to use it. Once the blue arrows are out... Who blocks Overhead?
Reduce recovery? In order to do what? Almost everything is safe and even more if you play the footsies right... (Maybe I haven't understood that part).

 

[RM NoBrows]

Even if you lose the pressure from a -6 you could at least have the meter build of the cancel and of the hit on block. Also you would be able to do an Ex Armor.
No timer Arrow? Yeah broke, the character can do B21 overhead (or B214 into sp overhead) or cancel ANYTHING into special overhead + the fact it would be really easy for whiff punishes and in react to use it. Once the blue arrows are out... Who blocks Overhead?
Reduce recovery? In order to do what? Almost everything is safe and even more if you play the footsies right... (Maybe I haven't understood that part).

Are you being sarcastic about no timer on stun arrow being broke?

 

[Youphemism]

Even if you lose the pressure from a -6 you could at least have the meter build of the cancel and of the hit on block. Also you would be able to do an Ex Armor.
No timer Arrow? Yeah broke, the character can do B21 overhead (or B214 into sp overhead) or cancel ANYTHING into special overhead + the fact it would be really easy for whiff punishes and in react to use it. Once the blue arrows are out... Who blocks Overhead?
Reduce recovery? In order to do what? Almost everything is safe and even more if you play the footsies right... (Maybe I haven't understood that part).

Meter building isn't a problem for Ancestral though so him building a tiny bit more meter from the arrow is pretty much useless. Cancelling into arrow load does literally almost everything safe low arrow would do but better in most cases. The only things different are that low arrow would build a tiny amount more of meter but you would lose your arrow, but the cancel is safer and gives you your arrow that you need.
How is it broke though? So what if there's the mixup between the overhead flip and low arrow? Are you trying to tell me that one overhead special that knocks down is as much of a threat as an arrow that leads to 35%+? Anyway B21's followups are all fuzziable. What does B21 mixups have to do with stun arrow being broke anyway? You're not making any points that show why it would be broke.
Reduce the recovery so that he has a decent zoning/counterzoning game obviously. I'm not talking about using them up close, I mean the air arrows which you could use from a distance for some semblance of a decent full screen game.

 

[HappyPow]

Meter building isn't a problem for Ancestral though so him building a tiny bit more meter from the arrow is pretty much useless. Cancelling into arrow load does literally almost everything safe low arrow would do but better in most cases. The only things different are that low arrow would build a tiny amount more of meter but you would lose your arrow, but the cancel is safer and gives you your arrow that you need.
How is it broke though? So what if there's the mixup between the overhead flip and low arrow? Are you trying to tell me that one overhead special that knocks down is as much of a threat as an arrow that leads to 35%+? Anyway B21's followups are all fuzziable. What does B21 mixups have to do with stun arrow being broke anyway? You're not making any points that show why it would be broke.
Reduce the recovery so that he has a decent zoning/counterzoning game obviously. I'm not talking about using them up close, I mean the air arrows which you could use from a distance for some semblance of a decent full screen game.

It would be broke because, you could spend the entire games going for overheads instead of the low stun Arrow that leads to a 36% min and that is the real threat . Use your Head a bit and make the logical links on your own.
Oh recovery on shooting the arrows? Even here I don't know... It would lead to epic combos, I think, like ia1 air Arrow ia1 air arrow 34 dive kick (in the corner) or maybe even 221 DF2 34 etc... Or Maybe not.
On the other hand, increasing the startup is not a bad idea. At least for the Arrow going straight when you Jump (Jump DF2) in order to hit (like Piercing Mileena) a guy standing up (Is it possible? I've never hit that). You could get a better zoning this way and won't have broken damages.
By the way, doesn't need to build bars? He is maybe one of the characters that need bars the most so yeah I take even a bit more if it is possible.

 

[HappyPow]

Are you being sarcastic about no timer on stun arrow being broke?

No xD I mean : I'm already use to that so I'm playing the character the way I can play it and when I think about a no time stun Arrow, I'm like :
"I could get it on every punishes, combos, knowing that I do have 50/50 into 50/50 then it means that I could get a reset plus another stun Arrow and go for overheads untill I see that I hit the guy and boom stun Arrow plus reset etc..."