What's new

What do YOU think defines a high level player at UMK3/MKT?

MKK hanzo

Moderator
What do YOU think defines a high level player at UMK3/MKT?

Personally this is MY OPINION, feel free to debate/discuss. I havent seen this kind of thread ever so here I go, sorry for my bad english!

1) Aside from the basic reflexes-reading your opp-execution one of the most importants skills to develop in these games is BLOCKING. If you dont know how to reaction-block, option select-block, etc you re going to be in a very hard time eating sweeps etc. Also know WHEN to block and when not to just walk back/foward to space yourself. I sometimes prefer to block at the last second (not recomendable, it has costed me so many matches) cause when you block you re stuck on the blocking frames animation for too long. I can write aton more here, its one of the aspects I love the most from MK games. Kara-jabbing.

2) Execution and a good knowledge on WHERE you are on the screen when punishing with a combo etc is very important. Is not the same when you are near the corner and you block a ninja Tlpt and punish it, lets say (you are homo smoke), 1 aaHP (no push from the corner), spear, then you lose an important pop up opportunity. The correct way should be aaHP x 2 to make the corner push you out and have the perfect way to pop up the opponent. thsi is kind of "spacing" or "zoning". i have seen so many players that can do all the combos they want but when presented with a chance like this they just drop the ball. READ: Im talking players here, not taking in account online matches and such.

3) Punishing blocked moves: A big part of my gameplay. I like to, when I know the opponent will LP rushe, to walk back a bit so if he try to knee start something, he should get the LK/HK animation, and that IS punishable with all characters. Again Homo Smoke, Ermac, Nw, Mileena, etc can do wonders with this. Also WHIFF PUNISHING is very important (and risky) for these moves.

4) Sweep punishing is a big factor too. Blocking a meaty sweep is very good. I sometimes run INTO a sweeping opponent to "false high block" the sweep and then punish with either a special or a Lk. Sure its VERY HARD on Kano, Jax and Sonya sweep´s.

5) Cross up punishing/avoiding is a very important part too. To know WHEN to run under someone and sweep at the end of the crossup is very frustrating on the jumping player cause (unles he is a ninja tlpter) he have just to block the sweep and eat chip dmge. You can bait the Tlpt too here hehe so there is your little mixup game.

6) Neutralizing jumping foes (AKA aa) is very important too. To know WHEN to aaHK, aa Uppercutt, aa special (if available), aa RH, aa Hp into combo etc. Also to know WHAT COMBO can be done on wich charcter depending on his hitboxes/position on the stage etc.

7) Maximizing damage into combos: Also VERY important, and a part of #2 and #6. Think of it as if you only were given ONE CHANCE to land a big combo in a round, what will you do? Of course land the one that does the most damage. Sometimes (me included) players drop the ball for trying cocky combos in a heated match, and I understand that LOL, I also love the "crowd pleasing" factor of landing a big, cocky combo in front of lots of ppl and get a "wooooow" reaction. Its just that its hard and sometimes we should go "for the kill" instead of looking to do flashy stuff. Again, Im NO ONE to speak about this cause I drop so many matches because of this lol.

8 ) Moves ranges and speed and Properties: This is self explanatory.

9) Throw game and shenanigans (love that word). There are several throw setups in this game, but not one is "guaranteed". Its important to know when to hold back when LP rush etc.

I like this match particulary:


Not because I win but cause you can see me trying cocky stuff on round 1 and I lose for that (ambigous throw off a up cannonball lol). Also that player (Ninja Spectre) is no slouch hehe. One mistake and I have 3 axes up my ass. He was nervous that day too haha. At the end of round 1 and then Round 2 and 3 I think I demostrate some aspects that I described. aaHK or Special when to. Sweep bait and punishing. Sweep blocking WHEN needed. Situational and character specific stuff (blocked Uppercutt punishing with up cannonball). Not jumping when no need to. Projectile spacing from AFAR. Gettin off LP pressure on the corner with a up kannonball (although that was risky cause if he had kara-jabbed I would have taken punish big time).

There are a lot of stuff that I left out. Im busy right now but I can update it with more stuff later. I hope you guys like this.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Good thread.

A good indication of a top player is their ability to deal with run jab and corner pressure. I know that I struggle with it and seem to take more damage than I need to, but I've played people who can get out of it nearly every time.

Part of it is reading your opponents habits. Like knocking them down with a jump kick or sweep, do they:

1. try to jump out alot?
- aahp or aahk them on wakeup

2. try to hit you with a c.lk or two, or uppercut?
- run up and knee lift combo will make them block next time

3. just duck and block?
- it's run jab to the corner time

Knowing your opponents habits and adapting to their game is paramount to being a top player.
 
I try to watch what the high skill players do as they beat me :) I would say blocking is right at #1. I notice they rarely use it and I hug to block way too much...been practicing on reducing this. The speed these players can do counter movers seems much higher, just from knowing when not to block I think.
 
Being able to play against your specific opponent.

Many times I've seen others as well as myself, fall into patterns. These patterns earn us the victory the quickest. These patterns are usually used against weaker players. But when good players come along, I still see the pattern being used. It's not until a few games have passed where I see the pattern playing player start changing his game up to fit his opponent. If you're playing a lot of players who aren't on your level, it will bring your level down if you continue to play according to a pattern. The best players are the ones who always plays against their opponent, never falling into useless patterns.

As a high level player, you have to be able to categorize your opponent. Is he a rusher, with high risk high reward? Is he a turtler, who waits for an opening and usually never takes risks? Does he try and bait a lot, or does he not bait at all? Is he a counter player, and just reacts to what I do? These questions may not be able to be answered in the first match, but if you actually practice categorizing players, it will become easier down the road. By doing this, I have found it is MUCH easier to adapt to my opponent. It doesn't matter what character he uses, I already have TONS of experience vs all of the characters. I have to play my opponent, not his character selection.

This doesn't mean character selection isn't important. Match-ups play a big role in any fighter. But once you've played so many matches, and have played against the entire cast for awhile, you will already know the match-ups and what you basically can and can't do based on who your opponent chooses. Knowing the match-ups is not a high level attribute, it's a basic one in my opinion. Before you become a high level player, you should already know the match-ups like they're engraved in your brain.
 

AC1984

Kaballin!
For me high level player= someone one who can play his best game most of the time,adapts fast to unknown patterns, uses at least 85% of the roster and play with or against every character in a solid way. Hope I get there some day.

P.S. Good job Hanzo and Spectre for the nice match. Kano's sweep and cannonball punishes are awesome.
 

X820

Noob
To me a high level player is someone who is ALL styles at any given time, adapting/responding to the situation at hand (wich can change a lot in a match).

If you are "just" a rusher, turtler or baiter, you're not high level. If you are a little bit of all, to me.. you're not high level either.

I'm lucky to play a few individuals from this site that are the whole package and can switch on you faster then you can throw stuff at them, by nature.
 
AC1984 said:
For me high level player= someone one who can play his best game most of the time,adapts fast to unknown patterns, uses at least 85% of the roster and play with or against every character in a solid way. Hope I get there some day.

I disagree with the playing 85% of the roster part.
P.S. Good job Hanzo and Spectre for the nice match. Kano's sweep and cannonball punishes are awesome.

I disagree with the playing 85% of the roster part.
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
THX EVERYONE FOR THE FEEDBACK!! =)


Part 2!!

As most of you have pointed out (and I forgot lol I suck) READING YOUR OPPONENT is an importan part of the high level play.

In fact, I think its one of the most importants. You can win a match with only normal attacks if you can read your opp. well. Yes, no combos and specials lol. If you are accustomed to play ALWAYS with someone that will hurt you unless that someone is far better than you. Cause you will get acustomed to his faults. There are several ppl that jump foward when they get hit by a sweep/special etc. This can be easily exploited. As Konqrr pointed, you can wake up catch them with lots of stuff. Some players Tlpt out at certain "signs" you do so oyu can fake them, etc.

NEVER GIVE UP!: Neverr but NEVER give up! Even if your foe has a big life lead, and the timer is running low you can turn the tide... IF YOU KNOW how to and this leads to this point:

If yur character HAVE the tools for turning it up. Sadly tier lists means a lot in this game, sure every char CAN win in this game but there are certain cases in wich some battles can be uphill battles.

This vid demonstrates that particulary well:


2 well landed combos and thats it. Capitalize on your opp. mistakes and punish them with your best and most damaging combo. If he is nervous thats better too. he WILL make the mistake you are waiting for.

Gettin out of of LP pressure is hard if you op. knows what he is doing.

Remember to keep "half an eye" for the run bar. Its not more than 5 or 6 Lps in a row to deplete it. You can mash HP whil holding DB+Blk so casually an uppercutt can come out. If you find a "breach" that could be a double LP or a knee starter into onfinished combo, you can mash "glitch-LP" while holding DB still. this (depending on the player priority) can do a lot of damage to your opp. if he runs blindly. he can eat a throw, eat like 2 LP (this is good cause if he get this, he will be on the defensive holding block so you can go into offense).

In the beggining of the round 2 of that match it happens. The opp gets too nervous and run blindly, tapping the combo and eats like 20% of life only in Lp´s.

I will post more soon. Busy ATM.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Hmm, well if you have two competitive players and close/back and forth matches, I'd say that's good enough since chances are both players will know how to play the game well enough to compete(with all those gameplay elements mastered to the point of competiting already mentioned such as running, attacking, countering, relaunching, cancelling into moves, playing good defense, finesse etc) but doing all of these isn't necessary to win. You have to have your own solid game with all of the tools offered to you used at the most advanced level to win against other good players. Plus, you learn a lot from losing tough matches over time and become better.

Also, if someone is versatile enough with most characters to compete with most of them if not all that's also a sign to me that they're a high level player or if someone can manage against higher tiers with a lower character(which is not easy to do) I consider that.

Not everyone uses just Kabal and Smoke, but a lot do in UMK3 when it comes to serious matches I've noticed.
 

NoDoubt

nasty
MKF30 said:
Hmm, well if you have two competitive players and close/back and forth matches, I'd say that's good enough since chances are both players will know how to play the game well enough to compete(with all those gameplay elements mastered to the point of competiting already mentioned such as running, attacking, countering, relaunching, cancelling into moves, playing good defense, finesse etc) but doing all of these isn't necessary to win. You have to have your own solid game with all of the tools offered to you used at the most advanced level to win against other good players. Plus, you learn a lot from losing tough matches over time and become better.

Also, if someone is versatile enough with most characters to compete with most of them if not all that's also a sign to me that they're a high level player or if someone can manage against higher tiers with a lower character(which is not easy to do) I consider that.

Not everyone uses just Kabal and Smoke, but a lot do in UMK3 when it comes to serious matches I've noticed.
completely agree..I deff appreciate those who use low tier characters against high tiers and use them well. I really do think it sometimes takes more strategy and planning to win the right way with characters like Cyrax, Shang, Lui kang....ect.

I genuinely enjoy the lower tiers just cuz I think a lot of em are fun to use if your winning lol. Sheeva's my b1tch : )
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
NoDoubtArion said:
completely agree..I deff appreciate those who use low tier characters against high tiers and use them well. I really do think it sometimes takes more strategy and planning to win the right way with characters like Cyrax, Shang, Lui kang....ect.

I genuinely enjoy the lower tiers just cuz I think a lot of em are fun to use if your winning lol. Sheeva's my b1tch : )
Yep I hear ya, I use Sektor, Cyrax half the time and enjoy giving higher tiered character a rough time lol I definitely think it's more challenging in a way to win with a lower tier then higher, playing with Kabal is fun and all but typical. So when I see a Sheeva player or another low tier that's respect and skill right there.

BTW, who is that in your sig dancing? She's hot.
 

FatalTragedy

Jesus Fucking Christ
I still like to see Sektor kicking the shit out of Robo Smoke. That's always entertaining. I love Konqrr's playing. He tends to pick low tier characters and he fucking slays with them.
 

NoDoubt

nasty
OJuggernaut0 said:
Picking low tiers has no bearing on being "high level".
Didnt say it did, allz I said wuz I personally appreciate those who use them...and use them well. Especially against high tiered opponents. lol




and MKF30...itz the one and only Gwen Stefani dancin' : ) Glad u lYKE IT! And im really sad I never got to play u yet this summer : (( I guess we can try again next year when college is done kickin my ass
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Nobody said picking low tiers =means you're a high level player, but if someone competes or wins often with them vs. higher tiers at a competitive level, that can't be ignored...for any fighting game with tier layouts.

@Nodoubt, I agree and ahh I thought that was her but wasn't entirely sure lol. I was thinking, Gwen, Madonna or Lady Gaga in my head but was't sure lol. Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
FatalTragedy said:
I still like to see Sektor kicking the shit out of Robo Smoke. That's always entertaining. I love Konqrr's playing. He tends to pick low tier characters and he fucking slays with them.
^_^

People underestimate low tier characters. He's not really low tier, but when I pick uSub people think that it's going to be "one of those matches" and I throw them for a loop. Freeze into 50% corner combo changes their mind real quick lol ...and I don't know why, but I love playing Liu Kang, 'the fuck is wrong with me?

Sorry for going off-topic.
 
Konqrr said:
^_^

People underestimate low tier characters. He's not really low tier, but when I pick uSub people think that it's going to be "one of those matches" and I throw them for a loop. Freeze into 50% corner combo changes their mind real quick lol ...and I don't know why, but I love playing Liu Kang, 'the fuck is wrong with me?

Sorry for going off-topic.
Same here man. I love playing with Liu Kang too. I find his high pitched screams and attack noises funny and I seem to catch people with his bicycle kick more often than I thought I would.
 

FatalTragedy

Jesus Fucking Christ
OUIJA WARRIOR said:
I seem to catch people with his bicycle kick more often than I thought I would.
Yeah you do...fucking Liu Kang. If his air fireball had a quicker recovery and his ground start juggles actually did damage he'd probably be my favorite character.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
OJuggernaut0 said:
Then you guys are posting in the wrong topic.
Eh? lol you can be a high level player despite low/high tier man, as long as you're good with whoever you're using and can be able to compete.



Konqrr said:
^_^People underestimate low tier characters.
Tell me about it lol
 

X820

Noob
Presonally I think it''s shitty that this is yet another thread that gets sidetracked due to ignorance and useless offtopic discussion.

When someone like Hanzo takes the time and effort to open a thread like this, pay attention and stay as on-topic as you possibly can. Good info and tactics could be heavily discussed, wich is also part of beeing or becoming a high level player.

Stay on topic.