Question - Fisticuffs What changes would you do to Fisticuffs?

[ismael4790]

As the next patch is probably very close, I ask all Johnny Cage players, and specially all Fisticuffs players:
What changes would you like to see in this variation?

Some ideas to start, from more realistic to less probable:

-Speedbag startup to -10 (down from -11).
-Fistbump improved in some way. More chip damage/ more time enabled/ less startup.
-Speedbag recovery from -3 to -2 or -1 for all hits.
-Speedbag odd hits are -3 on block and even hits are -2 or -1.
-Permanent double chip buff for this variation, while Fistbump would do triple chip.
-Speedbag pushback reduced.
- A new string.
- A new string with low starter.

 

[juicepouch]

a low starter with any cage would be too much imo

I like the permanent chip buff for fisticuffs to differentiate it from a list

 

[ASMA]

As the next patch is probably very close, I ask all Johnny Cage players, and specially all Fisticuffs players:
What changes would you like to see in this variation?

Some ideas, from more realistic to less probable:

-Speedbag startup to -10 (down from -11).
-Fistbump improved in some way. More chip damage/ more time enabled/ less startup.
- Speedbag recovery from -3 to -2 or -1 for all hits.
-Speedbag odd hits are -3 on block and even hits are -2 or -1.
-Permanent double chip buff for this variation, while Fistbump would do triple chip.
- A new string.
- A new string with low starter.

Woah woah permanent double chip and fistbump triple chip is crazy chill dawg lol. He doesn't need any buffs IMO the Fisticuff players need to just let the dream of B12ing all day go.. Now you have to think when you use the string instead of just going ham. I don't think he needs a low either he's fine as is

 

[Asodimazze]

Buffs :

Speedbag startup = 8 frames
Speedbag on block = -1 on both hits
Fistbump activates in 20 frames
EX Fistbump added, does triple chip damage.

+

General hitbox fixes for every variation

 

[n1kosh]

I wish d12 would have pushed less. But I think the problem he has only one, is the lack of normal lower strike

 

[ismael4790]

Woah woah permanent double chip and fistbump triple chip is crazy chill dawg lol. He doesn't need any buffs IMO the Fisticuff players need to just let the dream of B12ing all day go.. Now you have to think when you use the string instead of just going ham. I don't think he needs a low either he's fine as is

Lots of us don't see it that way. He is very limited after the last patch. His main tool offers no good pressure now.

Buffs :

Speedbag startup = 8 frames
Speedbag on block = -1 on both hits
Fistbump activates in 20 frames
EX Fistbump added, does triple chip damage.

+

General hitbox fixes for every variation

The EX Fistbump is a good idea!
I doubt they put Speedbag startup to 8, initially it was at 9.

 

[Bilbo11]

add permanent chip 1.5% or 2.0% take the bump fists away, no different from reptiles noxious.

or Ex Fistbump triple chip and be done with it

 

[Somea2V]

he's fine as is

You know, I can understand or agree with most of what you said. But that last line is exactly the reason we're going to have to keep playing a character whose mids whiff when they shouldn't. Cage is not fine, but it isn't necessarily a lacking low starter or a variation getting pinched that's the cause.

On topic: I doubt we can seriously hope for a change in Speed Bag. It's far more likely that we see, and should ask, for something with Fistbump. Now that Speed Bag is normalized, we could only hope for something like a constant 1.5 chip increase with Bump pushing it to 2.0 or maybe 2.5.

 

[Wigy]

Guys.

Lets not make the JC community look bad here.

Faster startup on the chip buff, fast enough to be still plus after a ballpunch.

9frame startup on b12 but keep it -3
That means the string would have some utility.

I feel he needs something on top of this but not sure what.

Maybe 15% grab with fisticuffs up

I see no buffs to fisticuffs specifically happening. He has a viable variation and SD is good in a few matchups. He needs bug fixes more than anything and some kind of universal buffs for an antiair as he doesn't have one without meter.

 

[ASMA]

Mid wiffing i

You know, I can understand or agree with most of what you said. But that last line is exactly the reason we're going to have to keep playing a character whose mids whiff when they shouldn't. Cage is not fine, but it isn't necessarily a lacking low starter or a variation getting pinched that's the cause.

Mids wiffing is a universal problem that needs to be addressed. For example Erron Black's 21122 completely wiffs on certain characters if the character is crouch blocking

 

[Somea2V]

Mid wiffing i

Mids wiffing is a universal problem that needs to be addressed. For example Erron Black's 21122 completely wiff on certain characters in the character when they block ducking

While I agree it's a universal issue, you can't possibly argue it affects Erron's overall play significantly, much less compared to Cage.

 

[Asodimazze]

Mid wiffing i

Mids wiffing is a universal problem that needs to be addressed. For example Erron Black's 21122 completely wiffs on certain characters if the character is crouch blocking

I don't think you understand how badly this affects Cage. 3/4 of his moves whiffs against ducking opponents...let me show you

Rip 1, 11, 113, 114, 2, 21, 3, 4, EX forceball, and from some distances b3, b34

 

[ASMA]

While I agree it's a universal issue, you can't possibly argue it affects Erron's overall play significantly, much less compared to Cage.

No it's definitely not as significant but i'm saying when this bug is fixed I think Fisticuffs will be fine. And sorry for the spell errors in the last message .. Don't know what happened lol

 

[ismael4790]

Guys.

I see no buffs to fisticuffs specifically happening. He has a viable variation and SD is good in a few matchups. He needs bug fixes more than anything and some kind of universal buffs for an antiair as he doesn't have one without meter.

Good ideas, specially the grab one and the fistbump being positive after nutpunch, would add a lot of fear to the opponent.

But I think the fact that a character has a viable variation should not be a justification for one of the variations being unviable. Some variations can be better than others, but all should be viable.
None of us expect fisticuffs to be at the level of A-List or Stunt-double. But right now the variation needs a hand.

 

[The_Tile]

Buffs :

Speedbag startup = 8 frames
Speedbag on block = -1 on both hits
Fistbump activates in 20 frames
EX Fistbump added, does triple chip damage.

+

General hitbox fixes for every variation

Every hit should be -2 at least, or -3, to prevent silly semi-block infinites in the corner on Quan and Ronin Takeda. Otherwise I agree, fisticuffs definitely needs a little bit of help, not a lot, just a frame or 2 shaved off a couple of things.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

He was just fine before his unwarranted nerf. They could just roll his patching back and id be okay with that

 

[ASMA]

I don't think you understand how badly this affects Cage. 3/4 of his moves whiffs against ducking opponents...let me show you

Rip 1, 11, 113, 114, 2, 21, 3, 4, EX forceball, and from some distances b3, b34

Jesus ... Did not know it was that bad

 

[Bilbo11]

I don't think you understand how badly this affects Cage. 3/4 of his moves whiffs against ducking opponents...let me show you

Rip 1, 11, 113, 114, 2, 21, 3, 4, EX forceball, and from some distances b3, b34

WOW!

how many of these are "MID" ?
...wow

 

[ismael4790]

He was just fine before his unwarranted nerf. They could just roll his patching back and id be okay with that

I agree with the nerf being too heavy, yes. But I doub Nrs rolls completelly back assuming their mistake xD

 

[ASMA]

I agree with the nerf being too heavy, yes. But I doub Nrs rolls completelly back assuming their mistake xD

Ey Dvorah got a roll back .. You never know

 

[GAV]

Change it back to the way it was back when it was hype!!!

 

[Somea2V]

Jesus ... Did not know it was that bad

Now you do, and probably understand our general frustration a little bit more when people say Johnny's "fine".

 

[Asodimazze]

WOW!

how many of these are "MID" ?
...wow

114, 21, 11, b3, b34 and EX Forceball are mids but it's just half the problem...all his highs should connect against a duck blocking opponent but they are totally unreliable. Against small characters they whiff all the time, and S1 doesn't connect on any duck blocking character in the game except Predator, Goro and Jason

 

[Wigy]

Good ideas, especially the grab one and the fistbump being positive after nutpunch, would add a lot of fear to the opponent.

But I think the fact that a character has a viable variation should not be a justification for one of the variations being unviable. Some variations can be better than others, but all should be viable.
None of us expect fisticuffs to be at the level of A-List or Stunt-double. But right now the variation needs a hand.

Im just being realistic. Its NRS they are unbelievably lazy, unless you're the kitana or kenshi community and cry 24/7

 

[ASMA]

Now you do, and probably understand our general frustration a little bit more when people say Johnny's "fine".

I definitely feel you now but I still say its a general game fix not Johnny himself