Wednesday Night Fights 2013 #2.7 Results

[Pig Of The Hut]

Can I copyright my superman combos? I told everyone I would break that character and everyone laughed and said he sucked when he was even better before the game came out. Smh at all you people that think its so easy then go to tournaments and get bodied and.probably go 1-2 and say "oh yeah I won 1 proved my point supes is broke durp anyone could pick him up"

Pig Of The Hut EGP Wonder_Chef was this how it felt playing kenshi cause if yeah I'm sorry entirely man

No because everyone is successful w superman and it took 2 years for someone other than me to do something w kenshi

i thought about being coy but decided to go w the truth

 

[Red Reaper]

Can I copyright my superman combos? I told everyone I would break that character and everyone laughed and said he sucked when he was even better before the game came out. Smh at all you people that think its so easy then go to tournaments and get bodied and.probably go 1-2 and say "oh yeah I won 1 proved my point supes is broke durp anyone could pick him up"

Pig Of The Hut EGP Wonder_Chef was this how it felt playing kenshi cause if yeah I'm sorry entirely man

Who said he sucked? lol.. I know I said he was boring and generic (and he is)... But I told you he was good the first time we played.

Anyway.. Don't get emo about it... Embrace your brokenness!

 

[John Grizzly]

You've actually made me consider picking up Cyborg. I always liked him on Teen Titans, and I feel my current characters are a bit too blue-eyed.

Do you play him on stick? Any advice for IANB? You can't use the Kabal shortcut from MK9, and 8746 comes out a bit high unless I'm just doing it too slow?

Not sure if someone answered you, and I don't play Cyborg, but I can do the IANB. I messed with him in practice just to see what people were talking about with that move.

Anyway, I do it the following way and it works really well. The motion that works for me is:

U/B,B,D/B,D,D/F+1

So....it's a half circle forward motion, but starting at U/B and ending at D/F. The game recognizes the U/B as your B motion and the D/F as your forward. This is the easiest way for me, at least.

 

[John Grizzly]

Just like the character himself, Superman is fucking boring to watch.

I'm praying the patch coming Tuesday and the upcoming patches afterward fix this game because I'm already worn out on the streams of it just watching nothing but Supermans and Black Adams. I understand people wanting to win, it's just mad boring.

I don't want this game to die.

 

[VizNasty]

Yeah throwing 50 tds is boring. 300 yard games boring. Tom Brady (qb) is not boring

I was referring to a star athlete taking less money to ensure quality players around him. Look at his contract compared to Tony Romo, and the other monster contracts QBs get.

 

[jaym7018]

I was referring to a star athlete taking less money to ensure quality players around him. Look at his contract compared to Tony Romo, and the other monster contracts QBs get.

I realized that but thats not actually true he got a longer more secure deal with more guaranteed money. It isnt just about what the ESPN ticker says.

 

[jaym7018]

Just like the character himself, Superman is fucking boring to watch.

I'm praying the patch coming Tuesday and the upcoming patches afterward fix this game because I'm already worn out on the streams of it just watching nothing but Supermans and Black Adams. I understand people wanting to win, it's just mad boring.

I don't want this game to die.

My feelings exactly. Problem i see is while everyone has tools its the better characters that have more. The better players are coming to the logical decision of why play so and so when this character has their tools and more. And its boring as hell.

 

[Amadeous]

Even if you think Superman is boring to watch, he is very fun to play. (I'm picking him up).

Also a comment on WNF. I'm glad they did not ban the farris aircraft stage. Aris did beast on it.

 

[REDRUM]

U will see 3 death strokes that are better at UFGT

*fixed*

 

[funkdoc]

superman and black adam will not kill this game. MAYBE if superman was the only character on that level, that would do it, but definitely not when there are multiple others who can hang with him.

IIRC, 3rd Strike at Evo had 2 years with 5 or 6 Chuns in the top 8, and another year with 5 Yuns in top 8. the game didn't die because of that, it died for the exact same reason other older Capcom games died (read: SF4)

the strong characters who don't take much effort to learn will always dominate early in a game. they tend to remain the most popular even as a game develops, but if the game survives long enough they will start having less and less of a presence at the top 8 level. basically, even if this game continued with no further patching, i would at least expect some of the supermans & adams to get bumped from top 8 in favor of batmans and cyborgs 6 months from now.

 

[funkdoc]

WARNING: REALLY LONG POST AHEAD

Well, at the highest level of play, in a balanced game we should see at least 10-15 or more characters winning majors or even locals.

this is not even close to true for the majority of good 2D fighting games fyi, unless you count random scrub locals or Japan's 1-game single-elimination tournaments (which greatly benefit mid/low tier). the harsh reality is that for double-elimination majors, 4-7 winning characters once a game has evolved is *much* more common. MK9 & Injustice are not uniquely unbalanced by 2D standards, the way a lot of people on this site seem to think they are.

let me run down some of the biggest/most respected Capcom games and look at the characters that won majors...

SF2 Hyper Fighting (AKA Turbo): Ryu/Guile at the top, then Blanka/Sagat at the next level. that is actually impressive given the game only has 12 characters, i will say!

Super Turbo: this is a lot trickier since the American scene largely died once SF4 dropped; it's tough to say whether Damdai's T.Hawk would still win everything if people like Valle & Choi still played ST on the regular, though long-term Japanese results strongly suggest "no". i will say that the consistent tournament winners at the peak of the US scene were Vega, Balrog, Dhalsim, Old Sagat, Ryu, & Chun. Deejay has started winning big in Japan over the past couple years, but in the US Afrolegends almost always dropped him for Balrog against top players...it's more debatable but i'll count him since he's done well in more than a couple big JP tourneys.

SF Alpha 2: A game dominated by the original "Big 4" - Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rose.

3rd Strike: The Chun & Yun Show, with special guest appearances from Ken & Makoto!

Capcom vs. SNK 2: Definitely a lot more winning characters in this game, although a lot of that is because it has a huge cast and a "Groove" system that essentially multiplies the number of characters by 6. even then, big tournaments most often came down to battles of A-Groove top tier (Sakura, Bison, Blanka, Vega) and a few other teams/grooves represented by 1 or 2 top players (e.g. John Choi for C, Combofiend for K, Buktooth for N, Steve H for P). it was still a very small percentage of the cast, and people often joked that "SNK" should be removed from the game's title given how little their characters did!

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: Do i even need to explain this one? actually, i will say that the "Big 4" in this game is a bit of a myth - in its last couple years it became more of a Big 3 (Storm + Sentinel + Magneto), with Cable & Iron Man as occasional but not consistent threats. Cable really dropped off hard once people like Yipes came along and the game just got faster and faster...

SF4 & its iterations: Vanilla = Sagat/Akuma/Ryu/Rufus/maybe Balrog, though it may be a lot different if we went back and played it now. SSF4 by the end = Cammy/Akuma/Rufus/Viper, with some Adon thanks to Gamerbee. AE = the big 3 of Yun/Yang/Fei along with some Viper/Seth/Akuma. AE2012 = Cammy/Akuma/Fei, with a few others that show up in lesser degrees (e.g. Rufus, Guile, Adon, Seth, Gen)

so, only one of the games i just mentioned has 10+ characters who regularly won legitimate majors (and that's the FG with arguably the largest cast ever), and over half the cast could not consistently win at the top level in any of these games. and these were the biggest FGs in the US during their time, hands down!

tl;dr to MK people - the grass isn't really greener on the other side. learn to have realistic expectations of 2D games in general and don't worry TOO much about your games' issues - every game has huge problems somewhere!

 

[Red Reaper]

WARNING: REALLY LONG POST AHEAD



this is not even close to true for the majority of good 2D fighting games fyi, unless you count random scrub locals or Japan's 1-game single-elimination tournaments (which greatly benefit mid/low tier). the harsh reality is that for double-elimination majors, 4-7 winning characters once a game has evolved is *much* more common. MK9 & Injustice are not uniquely unbalanced by 2D standards, the way a lot of people on this site seem to think they are.

let me run down some of the biggest/most respected Capcom games and look at the characters that won majors...

SF2 Hyper Fighting (AKA Turbo): Ryu/Guile at the top, then Blanka/Sagat at the next level. that is actually impressive given the game only has 12 characters, i will say!

Super Turbo: this is a lot trickier since the American scene largely died once SF4 dropped; it's tough to say whether Damdai's T.Hawk would still win everything if people like Valle & Choi still played ST on the regular, though long-term Japanese results strongly suggest "no". i will say that the consistent tournament winners at the peak of the US scene were Vega, Balrog, Dhalsim, Old Sagat, Ryu, & Chun. Deejay has started winning big in Japan over the past couple years, but in the US Afrolegends almost always dropped him for Balrog against top players...it's more debatable but i'll count him since he's done well in more than a couple big JP tourneys.

SF Alpha 2: A game dominated by the original "Big 4" - Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rose.

3rd Strike: The Chun & Yun Show, with special guest appearances from Ken & Makoto!

Capcom vs. SNK 2: Definitely a lot more winning characters in this game, although a lot of that is because it has a huge cast and a "Groove" system that essentially multiplies the number of characters by 6. even then, big tournaments most often came down to battles of A-Groove top tier (Sakura, Bison, Blanka, Vega) and a few other teams/grooves represented by 1 or 2 top players (e.g. John Choi for C, Combofiend for K, Buktooth for N, Steve H for P). it was still a very small percentage of the cast, and people often joked that "SNK" should be removed from the game's title given how little their characters did!

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: Do i even need to explain this one? actually, i will say that the "Big 4" in this game is a bit of a myth - in its last couple years it became more of a Big 3 (Storm + Sentinel + Magneto), with Cable & Iron Man as occasional but not consistent threats. Cable really dropped off hard once people like Yipes came along and the game just got faster and faster...

SF4 & its iterations: Vanilla = Sagat/Akuma/Ryu/Rufus/maybe Balrog, though it may be a lot different if we went back and played it now. SSF4 by the end = Cammy/Akuma/Rufus/Viper, with some Adon thanks to Gamerbee. AE = the big 3 of Yun/Yang/Fei along with some Viper/Seth/Akuma. AE2012 = Cammy/Akuma/Fei, with a few others that show up in lesser degrees (e.g. Rufus, Guile, Adon, Seth, Gen)

so, only one of the games i just mentioned has 10+ characters who regularly won legitimate majors (and that's the FG with arguably the largest cast ever), and over half the cast could not consistently win at the top level in any of these games. and these were the biggest FGs in the US during their time, hands down!

tl;dr to MK people - the grass isn't really greener on the other side. learn to have realistic expectations of 2D games in general and don't worry TOO much about your games' issues - every game has huge problems somewhere!

I agree.

I still don't like the Balance in this game though. I personally feel it isn't as balanced as MK. That's why I tier whore in this game unlike MK (that and because I kan learn to like characters since I don't have a personal favorite)...

Trait Superman gives characters like Arrow no options to get out of F2 3 Breath into F2 3 Breath. Just framing a D1 makes Arrow lose the trade and back dashing (which needs to be timed and isn't brain dead) forces you to block the 3.

I use Arrow-Superman as an example because it's easiest to explain, but there are plenty of other examples.

 

[Tim Static]

WARNING: REALLY LONG POST AHEAD



this is not even close to true for the majority of good 2D fighting games fyi, unless you count random scrub locals or Japan's 1-game single-elimination tournaments (which greatly benefit mid/low tier). the harsh reality is that for double-elimination majors, 4-7 winning characters once a game has evolved is *much* more common. MK9 & Injustice are not uniquely unbalanced by 2D standards, the way a lot of people on this site seem to think they are.

let me run down some of the biggest/most respected Capcom games and look at the characters that won majors...

SF2 Hyper Fighting (AKA Turbo): Ryu/Guile at the top, then Blanka/Sagat at the next level. that is actually impressive given the game only has 12 characters, i will say!

Super Turbo: this is a lot trickier since the American scene largely died once SF4 dropped; it's tough to say whether Damdai's T.Hawk would still win everything if people like Valle & Choi still played ST on the regular, though long-term Japanese results strongly suggest "no". i will say that the consistent tournament winners at the peak of the US scene were Vega, Balrog, Dhalsim, Old Sagat, Ryu, & Chun. Deejay has started winning big in Japan over the past couple years, but in the US Afrolegends almost always dropped him for Balrog against top players...it's more debatable but i'll count him since he's done well in more than a couple big JP tourneys.

SF Alpha 2: A game dominated by the original "Big 4" - Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rose.

3rd Strike: The Chun & Yun Show, with special guest appearances from Ken & Makoto!

Capcom vs. SNK 2: Definitely a lot more winning characters in this game, although a lot of that is because it has a huge cast and a "Groove" system that essentially multiplies the number of characters by 6. even then, big tournaments most often came down to battles of A-Groove top tier (Sakura, Bison, Blanka, Vega) and a few other teams/grooves represented by 1 or 2 top players (e.g. John Choi for C, Combofiend for K, Buktooth for N, Steve H for P). it was still a very small percentage of the cast, and people often joked that "SNK" should be removed from the game's title given how little their characters did!

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: Do i even need to explain this one? actually, i will say that the "Big 4" in this game is a bit of a myth - in its last couple years it became more of a Big 3 (Storm + Sentinel + Magneto), with Cable & Iron Man as occasional but not consistent threats. Cable really dropped off hard once people like Yipes came along and the game just got faster and faster...

SF4 & its iterations: Vanilla = Sagat/Akuma/Ryu/Rufus/maybe Balrog, though it may be a lot different if we went back and played it now. SSF4 by the end = Cammy/Akuma/Rufus/Viper, with some Adon thanks to Gamerbee. AE = the big 3 of Yun/Yang/Fei along with some Viper/Seth/Akuma. AE2012 = Cammy/Akuma/Fei, with a few others that show up in lesser degrees (e.g. Rufus, Guile, Adon, Seth, Gen)

so, only one of the games i just mentioned has 10+ characters who regularly won legitimate majors (and that's the FG with arguably the largest cast ever), and over half the cast could not consistently win at the top level in any of these games. and these were the biggest FGs in the US during their time, hands down!

tl;dr to MK people - the grass isn't really greener on the other side. learn to have realistic expectations of 2D games in general and don't worry TOO much about your games' issues - every game has huge problems somewhere!

Good shit, Josh. You really should make this into a thread of its own, so more people will see it, and learn from it.

 

[King Roosta]

WARNING: REALLY LONG POST AHEAD



this is not even close to true for the majority of good 2D fighting games fyi, unless you count random scrub locals or Japan's 1-game single-elimination tournaments (which greatly benefit mid/low tier). the harsh reality is that for double-elimination majors, 4-7 winning characters once a game has evolved is *much* more common. MK9 & Injustice are not uniquely unbalanced by 2D standards, the way a lot of people on this site seem to think they are.

let me run down some of the biggest/most respected Capcom games and look at the characters that won majors...

SF2 Hyper Fighting (AKA Turbo): Ryu/Guile at the top, then Blanka/Sagat at the next level. that is actually impressive given the game only has 12 characters, i will say!

Super Turbo: this is a lot trickier since the American scene largely died once SF4 dropped; it's tough to say whether Damdai's T.Hawk would still win everything if people like Valle & Choi still played ST on the regular, though long-term Japanese results strongly suggest "no". i will say that the consistent tournament winners at the peak of the US scene were Vega, Balrog, Dhalsim, Old Sagat, Ryu, & Chun. Deejay has started winning big in Japan over the past couple years, but in the US Afrolegends almost always dropped him for Balrog against top players...it's more debatable but i'll count him since he's done well in more than a couple big JP tourneys.

SF Alpha 2: A game dominated by the original "Big 4" - Ryu, Ken, Chun, Rose.

3rd Strike: The Chun & Yun Show, with special guest appearances from Ken & Makoto!

Capcom vs. SNK 2: Definitely a lot more winning characters in this game, although a lot of that is because it has a huge cast and a "Groove" system that essentially multiplies the number of characters by 6. even then, big tournaments most often came down to battles of A-Groove top tier (Sakura, Bison, Blanka, Vega) and a few other teams/grooves represented by 1 or 2 top players (e.g. John Choi for C, Combofiend for K, Buktooth for N, Steve H for P). it was still a very small percentage of the cast, and people often joked that "SNK" should be removed from the game's title given how little their characters did!

Marvel vs. Capcom 2: Do i even need to explain this one? actually, i will say that the "Big 4" in this game is a bit of a myth - in its last couple years it became more of a Big 3 (Storm + Sentinel + Magneto), with Cable & Iron Man as occasional but not consistent threats. Cable really dropped off hard once people like Yipes came along and the game just got faster and faster...

SF4 & its iterations: Vanilla = Sagat/Akuma/Ryu/Rufus/maybe Balrog, though it may be a lot different if we went back and played it now. SSF4 by the end = Cammy/Akuma/Rufus/Viper, with some Adon thanks to Gamerbee. AE = the big 3 of Yun/Yang/Fei along with some Viper/Seth/Akuma. AE2012 = Cammy/Akuma/Fei, with a few others that show up in lesser degrees (e.g. Rufus, Guile, Adon, Seth, Gen)

so, only one of the games i just mentioned has 10+ characters who regularly won legitimate majors (and that's the FG with arguably the largest cast ever), and over half the cast could not consistently win at the top level in any of these games. and these were the biggest FGs in the US during their time, hands down!

tl;dr to MK people - the grass isn't really greener on the other side. learn to have realistic expectations of 2D games in general and don't worry TOO much about your games' issues - every game has huge problems somewhere!

This is just a post about how unbalanced Capcom games are.

 

[ABACABB]

someone need to make a gif @ 6:10:26 -6:10:33 PLS

 

[Raidenwins]

Haha, this guy RIP is clueless about MK. He doesn't know what MK6 and MK7 were. Rip, dude, just for your edification:

1. MK
2. MKII
3. MK3 (includes Ultimate MK3 and MK Trilogy)
4. MK4 (includes MK Gold)
5. MK Deadly Alliance
6. MK Deception
7. MK Armageddon
8. MK vs. DC Universe
9. MK (2011), a.k.a. MK9

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

You guys realize the only reason anyone is "tier whoring" right now is because the game has only been out for a month right? People didn't find out how godlike Gen was in street fighter until Xian started using him like last year, and the game's been out for forever. Before that you never saw Gens in tournament.

 

[cyke_out]

You guys realize the only reason anyone is "tier whoring" right now is because the game has only been out for a month right? People didn't find out how godlike Gen was in street fighter until Xian started using him like last year, and the game's been out for forever. Before that you never saw Gens in tournament.

I agree

How many times does it have to be said. The easier to use characters shine in the early days, but as the game matures and the technical characters finally get discovered, the balance of the game shifts.

This game is one month old! Stop acting like the game should be handed out to you on a silver platter. Get in their and learn the game and figure shit out.

 

[Crathen]

Shots fired?

And while i disagree with a few things , those guys nailed it , coming from a Tekken background i'm surprized at this whole top tier hunting in the first month of the game.

Yes i understand that easy to use / effective characters help winning tourneys but that shouldn't be the priority in the first months , everyone should focus more on learning the game and counters to certain moves / strats instead of constantly pointing at how you need an high tier character in order to win.