Guide - Venomous Venomous General Discussion Thread

[EtherealOmni]

But why end with a standing mix up when you can run in on their wake up. I would much rather do low combos with good unblockable chip. I end everything i can with f2,2xxqcb4 then run up to them after an force a instant 50/50. Am I going to poke with d4 for a slight bit more of poison or am I going to run in with f2,2xxqcb4 an do massive chip. My stamina bar is always empty with her. I play a very hit-and-run style of play on her because her range is insane. You can literally zone out the majority of the cast with just D4 and f2,2. So i don't see the sense in going for mixups at the end of combos when you can stack poison.

 

[CuteTricks]

You're clearly just splitting hairs here, so I'm done after this post, I already listed a number of reasons where df+1 could be useful over db+4, and also there is an existence of delayed wakeups that don't exist when you force people to stand into you. Also, you can stack poison from said mixups. You can't stack additional poison if you run away!

People burn meter to get standing wakeups, D'vorah doesn't have to do that, if you can't see the advantage of it, than that's on you to remain stagnant.

 

[G4S MinotaurLord]

Instead of arguing over which combo ender option is "more viable", we need to realize that this game is largely conditioning and options. The point of BOTH enders is that we have those options, and as long as we can keep putting the opponent in uncomfortable situations we're on top. Both standing resets and additional pressure have viability, and obviously which option to choose can be just as match-up dependent as it is anything else. Don't just pick one - let's learn all of her enders and pressure to maximize our game.

 

[chemist4hire]

But why end with a standing mix up when you can run in on their wake up. I would much rather do low combos with good unblockable chip. I end everything i can with f2,2xxqcb4 then run up to them after an force a instant 50/50. Am I going to poke with d4 for a slight bit more of poison or am I going to run in with f2,2xxqcb4 an do massive chip. My stamina bar is always empty with her. I play a very hit-and-run style of play on her because her range is insane. You can literally zone out the majority of the cast with just D4 and f2,2. So i don't see the sense in going for mixups at the end of combos when you can stack poison.

QCB4 does not lead to a hard knockdown. It can be tech rolled. So if you rush in and they tech roll followed by a back dash how are you forcing a 50/50?

 

[CuteTricks]

Instead of arguing over which combo ender option is "more viable", we need to realize that this game is largely conditioning and options. The point of BOTH enders is that we have those options, and as long as we can keep putting the opponent in uncomfortable situations we're on top. Both standing resets and additional pressure have viability, and obviously which option to choose can be just as match-up dependent as it is anything else. Don't just pick one - let's learn all of her enders and pressure to maximize our game.

I agree. My entire point was not saying one was better than the other, but that you should not write one off as not being viable because there are various circumstances where one can be used over the other. > . <

 

[TopTierHarley]

Posting just to keep up with thread.

 

[Mikotto]

I was looking at getting into D'vorah after seeing some of her ridiculous pokes. So naturally venomous caught my eye. I have a few questions for people who are more seasoned with the character. What are her punish combos like? What are some good ways to take advantage of the standing reset? It doesn't look like she has any low starting strings that lead to anything so the reset isn't a 50/50 (unless you jump in for a throw I guess). Do you use use it to get more poison in? What's her wake up game like? I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but that's it for now. I'll for sure keep an eye on this thread.

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

@Mikotto I'll hit you in like 30 with info if no one else does, just got home. And is anyone using D3 for her poke over D4? It's faster and looks like it has a longer range, haven't gotten a chance to check the frame data to see how safe it is comparatively

 

[EtherealOmni]

I never once said that your wrong. I'm was just asking why. Which you just stated. Not sure why your taking offense to it. I like to stack poison you like to force a standing mix up. As for the qcb4 not being a hard knockdown. I know that. Hence why I said I will chase them down. They can only backdash 2 times before they are out of stamina an since my normals will out range them most of the time they are forced to respect the run into d4/f2,2.

 

[Mikotto]

@Mikotto I'll hit you in like 30 with info if no one else does, just got home. And is anyone using D3 for her poke over D4? It's faster and looks like it has a longer range, haven't gotten a chance to check the frame data to see how safe it is comparatively

Thanks man. I've been using d4 over d3. Its got 2 frames faster startup (8 vs. 10) and slightly more range. However, it is not completely safe on block (-6) instead of d3's (-2). I don't think that anybody can punish it since the pushback puts you out of range of most fast attacks. I'm probably wrong though.

 

[CuteTricks]

Okay, just wanted to see some damage that D'vorah can offer through realistic corner situations. Let's pretend you make some really good reads and they don't block a single hit of this.


Corner Combo f+4,4, f+4,4, f+4,4 db+4,
On wake up d+4, into another d+4
f+2,2 EX db+4

Is around 75 percent in total.

> . < seems scary
(but that's also you teaching your opponent to respect your patience so that you can apply the mixup/and also reading properly.)

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

I was looking at getting into D'vorah after seeing some of her ridiculous pokes. So naturally venomous caught my eye. I have a few questions for people who are more seasoned with the character. What are her punish combos like? What are some good ways to take advantage of the standing reset? It doesn't look like she has any low starting strings that lead to anything so the reset isn't a 50/50 (unless you jump in for a throw I guess). Do you use use it to get more poison in? What's her wake up game like? I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but that's it for now. I'll for sure keep an eye on this thread.

Reasonably, you can punish for 30% meterless (with venom). She doesn't have any low starters, but a few pokes from her D3 or D4 can do the same amount of damage. I play to keep the poison up, but I can get carried away, so gonna have to modify my gameplay a bit. As her wakeups, her Ovipositor rush is fantastic, but I tend to just tech roll if I'm not in the corner.

For her quickstand, I forget she has it like 90% of the time, but so it only comes up to stuff wakeups. I'm sure someone else can give more details on that

 

[RunwayMafia]

ok, now that I'm sober and in the lab:

new 1 meter b'nb: 212 EXdb1, njp, forward jp, slight run cancel, f22 db4 does like INSANE venom damage and pretty good normal damage. (and looks swag). Both jump punches are done with 2.

meterless useful tech?: 11b2, f44 df1 does 24%ish with a standing reset when you hold the last move. Got to run to work, will do more later. Let's bust this hotness wide open and show how powerful Venomous can be.

OK so I've been labbing D and I find this variation to be my favorite. Why on earth do people not see how deadly this variation is? Do they not counterpoke? Lol

Coming from Kitana, Dvorah's pokes are godlike. Can OP make a list of her bnbs and setups? Doesn't this variation have the standing reset?

Educate me.

 

[G4S MinotaurLord]

OK so I've been labbing D and I find this variation to be my favorite. Why on earth do people not see how deadly this variation is? Do they not counterpoke? Lol

Coming from Kitana, Dvorah's pokes are godlike. Can OP make a list of her bnbs and setups? Doesn't this variation have the standing reset?

Educate me.

Runway, you know you my homeboy. Trust me, those strings I listed are gonna be useful. And yeah, her pokes are godly. The standing reset is ANY combo ending with df1 (hold) - there are dozens upon dozens of ways to combo into that move as an ender. In terms of long range pokes, d3 is 10 frames with only -2 on block and like hits full screen, so that's an amazing low check (I often start matches with it for first hit bonus). D4 is a little faster but worse and the angle is weird - it's 8 frames but -6 on block.

For overheads, 212 seems to be one of her main combo starters and overheads, and f22 also has amazing range (and puts on venom). One of the biggest tricks to this variation is utilizing the needle pokes to stack on venom ticks. f34 overheads but is too slow to really use outside of combos (but is pretty good in them). F1 is a decent advancing poke, but most of the time I'm throwing out the d3/f2 pokes.

I find I spend most of my meter in combos - spending the time to meter burn db1 for extended pop-up stuff is REALLY crucial, not just for combo damage, but to make sure you're hitting them with a ton more needle moves.

Speaking of her db1, it's a really good low and her only "real" projectile in this variation. I like using it when I'm being zoned, but it can be run'd out of and punished, so use it as a check, not a zoning tool. That being said, I find it covers 212 well; 212 into non-ex db1 usually will knock opponents out of their "punish" for setting up the move to begin with, so it kinda forces a weird ass situation. I like it because after they're knocked down I can resume my poke game.

This character is a LOT of footsies and spacing, so learn the range of the normals. I'm busy all day today, but Tuesday and Thursday I'll be labbing a bit more and post more when I have more details for you.

 

[Scrotie79]

I have nothing relevant to add to this thread as I do not get as much time with the game as I would like to. I just wanted to mention that there is one more fan of Venomous D'vorah here. I am definitely absorbing all the data the rest of you guys/gals are providing though.

 

[TheSpore]

I read all these post and not 1 mention of her D2 being godlike, if you wanna play footsies and spacing with her u can nearly anti-air anything with her D2.

Her DB1 and her poison spray are best used in combos, juggles mainly. You DO NOT have to EX DB1 to continue a juggle, timing is tricky but u can land a F112, xxDB4 or even a F22, DB4. 212 is ur go to string IMO, keep in mind also for those folks that like to say throw lows and low projectiles holing the U3 will ignore all lows and its basically 1 frame to get up and 1 to cancel.

 

[CuteTricks]

How do you deal with zoning in venomous? seems pretty difficult. I'd like to hear everyone's input, as in tekken, I didn't have to deal with projectiles at all.

 

[chemist4hire]

How do you deal with zoning in venomous? seems pretty difficult. I'd like to hear everyone's input, as in tekken, I didn't have to deal with projectiles at all.

I think Down 3 and Down 4 lower her hitbox so you can use those to go under instead of block and then dash cancel run into block or poke to close the distance while they are in recovery frames.

 

[Scrotie79]

I think Down 3 and Down 4 lower her hitbox so you can use those to go under instead of block and then dash cancel run into block or poke to close the distance while they are in recovery frames.

I was about to suggest the same thing! This might not work against Kano's Knives and a few other low hitting projectiles though.

 

[CuteTricks]

Yeah, the low projectiles, along with tracking missiles and projectiles are the ones that are really giving me a hard time. I don't have much problem from Kitana zone, but people like kang and sonya are getting to me.

 

[TheSpore]

A lot of projectiles will go over your head when ducking but if u duck and block it will hit you (dumb but its true), such as Kitana's fans, Jaky's machine gun, and Cassie's gunshots. For low projectiles you will can try getting use to using U3 and holding it, if u hold the 3 she will stand on her mandibles and all lows will go underneath her. 1 frame to stand and 1 frame to cancel.

 

[CuteTricks]

I'll attempt to use that vs low projectiles, see if I can gain any success from it, thanks for the suggestion.

but That definitely won't solve Sonya's tracking missles. >.< Such a pain to deal with.

 

[chemist4hire]

I'll attempt to use that vs low projectiles, see if I can gain any success from it, thanks for the suggestion.

but That definitely won't solve Sonya's tracking missles. >.< Such a pain to deal with.

Have you tried f4,2. The crawl is pretty low to the ground and fast.

 

[Mennarch]

FYI DB4 can beat some (all?) armored wakeup moves if done correctly. Also if they wakeup EX and you block that's -1 meter for them. So i say that's a win And if they techroll into backdash they are just pushing themselves into the corner. D'vorah is so scary in the corner xD

 

[Zoidberg747]

So apparently Bug Burst is actually not plus at all and is in fact more than -10 on block. This kind kills my boner for sure. Still like this variation the best.