Variation system - Poll

[Tertian]

I think only having presets is my choice. having moves people can't use in tournament seems to be quite a pain point.

 

[xenogorgeous]

MK9 type, make full characters, with a good amount of standard/default special moves , with full access since the beggining, and that's it .... this variation move system was a good attempt, but it's shown to not work well when :

1. You have unbalanced variations, that make people always pick one of them over the others, making the others variations useless and never used (MKX)
2. You have limitations on using all moves, restricting full potential of moves and techs exploration, making the game less creative (MK11)

 

[ErmacMKX]

None. The variation system has gotten worse. I have no idea why they would even have it in this game when 80% of the moves we can't use. Makes the game much more stale. Then they have the audacity to stretch 6 months worth of DLC to a year and act like they're supporting the game longer. Let's not forget where are those additional tournament variations they were suppose to add.

 

[Tony at Home]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1165019630680850433

I like how it's done here I just wish they started with 3 off the bat like in MKX. Excited to get that third though.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

I disagree with the notion that every character has a useless variation that some people seem to believe. Last patch made it a lot better.
I like the system we have for MK11, on paper. They have a lot of freedom to tinker with variations and make new ones. MKX's system felt a lot more constricted.

 

[Hellbringer]

voted mk9 cause i rather have one finished character, mkx was ok but mk11 is just meh, never understand the concept behind it, its not an rpg its a fightinggame.

 

[Vhozite]

I voted for MKX presets only.

When you get rid of the divide between tournament and casual players in terms of kit i feel like it forces NRS to put a bit more effort and thought into making the variations fun and balanced.

In MK11 a lot of variations feel more like lazy presets meant to limit a characters options in the name of balance instead of a meaningful changes built on top of a strong base kit. But since you can play customs in casual they can sort of drag their feet making the variations good since for the majority of the playerbase this "problem" doesn't exist.

Basically variations need to be all or nothing because the current system splits the playerbase in an idiotic way.

 

[Peter Quill]

If NRS is going to completely handcuff the system like they did in MK11 then it’s run it’s course and it’s a failed experiment.


Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

 

[stokedAF]

I’d like to see all the best moves in 1 variation and use the customizations for cosmetics.

 

[GLoRToR]

It already seems to be too difficult to balance out the basic moves and normals of characters.
I'd go for no variations at all.

 

[Searsy82]

No Variations, no dress up mode, more characters.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

What surprises me is that you see people complaining that there aren't enough ways to play characters. So you’d think people would be in favor of variations for diversity’s sake. It adds different flavors into the gameplay.

This is (so far) the most balanced game we’ve had yet, so something seems to be working if we’re honest.

I think it just shows that it’s tough to please everyone at once.

 

[GLoRToR]

What surprises me is that you see people complaining that there aren't enough ways to play characters. So you’d think people would be in favor of variations for diversity’s sake. It adds different flavors into the gameplay.

This is (so far) the most balanced game we’ve had yet, so something seems to be working if we’re honest.

I think it just shows that it’s tough to please everyone at once.

I'm not sure it's more balanced than injustice 2 tbh. Remains to be seen.
Fighting Geras, Erron, or Liu with Jade feels like mk9 matchups, too.
Or tbh a bit worse because Jade in mk9 had the ability to deal 30% punish damage. In mk11 right now her win condition is "chip them out 5% damage at a time before they get you in the blender and hit you for 30-50%

 

[DixieFlatline78]

MK9 with some modularity. I'd rather have 25 thought out characters instead of 30 decent characters and 20 half baked ones. Something like the V-Trigger system where you have one thing to choose from would be a good way to contribute depth

That said I think this patch was the biggest success of the variation system to date. Weak characters who were just doing a worse version of another characters gameplan had their bad variations buffed so that they now fill a specific niche. Like how Kotal went from being a struggling defensive grappler to an E Honda/Elena style turtle or how Kano went from a high risk/low reward grappling, turn stealer to a DOT setup character who creates really difficult situations

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'm not sure it's more balanced than injustice 2 tbh. Remains to be seen.
Fighting Geras, Erron, or Liu with Jade feels like mk9 matchups, too.
Or tbh a bit worse because Jade in mk9 had the ability to deal 30% punish damage. In mk11 right now her win condition is "chip them out 5% damage at a time before they get you in the blender and hit you for 30-50%

Are you comparing the end on Injustice’s life cycle to the beginning of MK11’s, though? Because this game is absolutely more balanced than Injustice 2 was a few months in.

There’s been no Black Adam, Deadshot, vanilla Aquaman etc. And there are characters that are strong, but no one tool that entirely dominates the field so far.

MK11 is the first game where I can honestly say that although some things were probably a bit too strong or annoying, there was nothing actually ‘broke’.

Also this may be the smallest ‘low tier’ we’ve had. It’s basically Shao and maybe 2 more characters.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

I gotta say the idea that MK9 characters are 'full' characters because there are no variation moves is laughable. MK9 Liu Kang had Fireball, Low Fireball, Flying Kick, Bicycle Kick and Parry. MK11 Liu Kang (Luohan Quan) has Fireball, Low Fireball, Flying Kick, Bicycle Kick, Parry...and Shaolin Stance. You can do a similar comparison between # of special moves in an MK11 variation with most characters.

The notion that without variations, characters would have more or even all of their custom moves in a single character is complete fiction and also would be ridiculous. Take MK11, remove a variation from each character, and there, that's your MK9.

As of the patch, most characters have two viable variations with distinct playstyles. How is that not better than a single character with a single playstyle? Again I must stress that removing variations would not mean all the moves would get dumped into a single character. That wouldn't even be a good thing. Combining two different playstyles into one character would actually result in less diversity, because the more things each character can excel at the less diversity there actually is.

 

[Slymind]

It's wierd that some people complain about variations as if the characters would get all the moves otherwise. The whole idea of variations as explained by Boon himself back at pre-release MKX, is to find an answer within your own character to a particular matchup. Naturally it's a system that requires time to be improved upon, but last patch proved that they are getting there.

As a Kotal Kahn main, Totemic is really helping me to deal with some matchups.

Those asking for MK9 style, in the scenario, you would get one of the current variations' kit and call it a day. How is that better than actually having more gameplay options?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It's wierd that some people complain about variations as if the characters would get all the moves otherwise. The whole idea of variations as explained by Boon himself back at pre-release MKX, is to find an answer within your own character to a particular matchup. Naturally it's a system that requires time to be improved upon, but last patch proved that they are getting there.

As a Kotal Kahn main, Totemic is really helping me to deal with some matchups.

Those asking for MK9 style, in the scenario, you would get one of the current variations' kit and call it a day. How is that better than actually having more gameplay options?

This is the thing that bugged me about the comments from both Injustice 2 and MK11. It’s like, do people not realize that in a typical game you might not have even seen these moves? They would have just picked some of them, and left the rest on the cutting room floor.

That’s how development normally works — there are a bunch of options early on, and then stuff gets trimmed/focused, and you get what you get in the final version.

They then found a way to give people the extra stuff, even if it wasn’t balanced (some of the INJ2 gear moves especially were extremely wacky), and people somehow interpreted that as taking something away, rather than getting something extra for fun. And it seems like they’re not capable of looking at the balance in an objective way any longer.

 

[Sutter Pain]

Mk9 style 1 variation but with bigger roster.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

This is the thing that bugged me about the comments from both Injustice 2 and MK11. It’s like, do people not realize that in a typical game you might not have even seen these moves? They would have just picked some of them, and left the rest on the cutting room floor.

That’s how development normally works — there are a bunch of options early on, and then stuff gets trimmed/focused, and you get what you get in the final version.

They then found a way to give people the extra stuff, even if it wasn’t balanced (some of the INJ2 moves especially were extremely wacky), and people somehow interpreted that as taking something away, rather than getting something extra for fun. And it seems like they’re not capable of looking at the balance in an objective way any longer.

TBH "I prefer complete characters" just seems like a standard, copy-and-paste response people use when they didn't put enough thought into the subject and just dislike variations for other reasons.
The only way I'd prefer a game without variations would be with a bigger base roster. There's absolutely no way we'd get characters more loaded than their individual variations, especially taking MK9 as an example.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

How is it hard to see that the variation system promotes homogeneity in the gameplay rather than mitigating it?

Take a game where you have a grappler character whose entire kit from the ground up was designed around getting in and hitting hard with the threat of command grabs. Or maybe a dedicated zoner whose every single normal and special was designed around the theme of keeping the enemies out.

Now take a game where even Liu Kang has a fucking teleport and a command grab.

Which one actually has more gameplay diversity? The one where every character does a little of everything or the one with clear-cut and fleshed out styles of play to choose between?

 

[Tony at Home]

KOMPLETE MK9 (the best balanced, most awesome netcode, Mortal Kombat game ever) CHARACTER



BASIC BITCH CUT INTO TINY PIECES MK11 CHARACTER


(Listed only one variation and cut out fatal blow / replaced specials to be fair. You get the idea. Going from character to character I can't see a significant trend in +/- the number of total special moves for characters. We aren't getting "Chopped into pieces" characters in favor of "Whole, complete characters". The only exception I think I'd see in the overall pattern is the MK9 DLC characters which really represented NRS just not giving a fuck anymore about how much they stuff into a character)

Honestly I've long suspected the variation/attachable moves system was a result of a bunch of kewl moves being made for characters in development, but come balancing time they'd have to otherwise scrap them out of the game entirely

 

[NothingPersonal]

People who want a game with one complete character, can you tell me what's wrong with variations? Choose one and play your damn character. MKX had viable variations for almost all characters. What I was expecting and wanted from MK11 was a completely custom character system, but NRS felt they weren't ready for some reason. Balancing the game around single moves is so much easier than around a character/variation. I voted variations+customs, but I'd voted only customs if the option was there. But there is little hope for custom variations to be viable now since they're balancing moves around the variations they made. Still, I hope they thonk of the customs too.

 

[Afk Skinny]

Camp no variation. Not a fan of them. More often than not if a variation I'm playing has a bad match up, I'm gonna completely switch characters than to ride it out with the same character but 2 different moves. Also I dont feel a character is whole if I have to outweigh what I feel like playing, "I really love delaying Cetrions rock throw, but having her teleport sure would be nice. Noobs shadow slide sure would be nice, but I have to use that slow af Spirit ball and give up a juggle after a teleport." Just make a character with the tools you feel would compliment the best for what you're going for instead of all these moveset gimmicks (Kitana). Less is more

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I think the variation system is a perfect thing for fighting games in general.
Making moves "contend" with each other removes a variable.

I just think NRS hasn't quite hit the sweet spot of how to use it. I would be pitching that EVERY special be a slot move, and as such you can balance around that.

Allow the player to dictate how they want to play. Give everyone every archetype so to speak..... and balance that way.

If i was in the rooms... that is what i'd pitch.

The development cycle for characters woudl be super long... but I also think you create a game that has longevity.

The dream.