Variation system - Poll

[MagicMan357]

Variations are fun especially when you just play kustom with out acting like it doesnt exist

 

[THTB]

People will want custom until they get hit with some custom-only bullshit lol. It ain't worth it for MK11...not yet.

Tbh though, going forward, custom should be the focus for future installments.

 

[GLoRToR]

Are you comparing the end on Injustice’s life cycle to the beginning of MK11’s, though? Because this game is absolutely more balanced than Injustice 2 was a few months in.

There’s been no Black Adam, Deadshot, vanilla Aquaman etc. And there are characters that are strong, but no one tool that entirely dominates the field so far.

MK11 is the first game where I can honestly say that although some things were probably a bit too strong or annoying, there was nothing actually ‘broke’.

Also this may be the smallest ‘low tier’ we’ve had. It’s basically Shao and maybe 2 more characters.

Beginning to beginning, of course. As far as I'm concerned. Geras, Liu and Erron are Aquaman and Black Adam. I do play a character with horrible frame data, but the fact that I explicitly argued that her frame data is utter fucking trash since BETA and people on this very board were against me about it speaks volumes of this community's capacity for complete bullshit.

More balanced than injustice 2 was? I don't think so. Try playing some of the lopsided matchups and see for yourself. Jade is not the only one who doesn't win any matchups and loses more than she has even. There is Kano, Shao, Kotal and who knows who else suffers in matchups, still.
Same tools across the board have different properties just because the character behind the tool is one of the dearie munchkin fuckpies of NRS. Character favouritism is not any bit less high than it was in inj2 you just don't seem to perceive it because you likely never played Jade vs Erron, but I got you. I summon my brother from another mother, @Evantabes to tell you just how hard Erron shits on Jade once he gets in. And Jade is only + on her projectiles full screen and if meterburned.
But that's just one example of a shit matchup where one character has all the damage, the omnipotent mids (note plural) and the other gets lowprofiled, deals no punish damage in comparison and has to spend the entire match not making a single mistake or goodbye peace out.
There's no Deadshot? Cetrion anyone? Ask a Kano player, any Jade player or pretty much anyone that isn't completely deluded just how fun fighting this fucknugget is with a 56f glow and her vines going through it for free. A fullscreen low.

With all due respect, because I generally agree with most things you say:
Play the bottom 10. No.
LAB the bottom 10 and see for yourself what it's like to get fullscreen punished for defending correctly.
A luxury Jade was supposed to do because of how bad her frame data is, yet her projectiles are a breeze to get through and her underbelly is ticklish.
Especially with a cleaver.

@Espio how's that matchup chart coming along bruh

 

[HeavyNorse]

Custom Variations only.

 

[Evantabes]

I summon my brother from another mother, @Evantabes to tell you just how hard Erron shits on Jade once he gets in.

Big facts lol. I literally said something like "Seems like when I touch you it's over. So you just can't let me touch you at all"

 

[SwiftEagle]

Remember the tier gap and player usage between Cutthroat and Cybernetic Kano, Buzz saw and Hat trick Kung Lao, or Flame fist and Dualist Liu Kang? Variations and loadouts work well in COD, not fighting games. Complete characters with a single, unique moveset is clearly the best option.

 

[chrisisnice]

Definitely no variations next time. I think they have come to their used by date. Having a fully complete character with set tools is much more interesting.

It would also stop everyone saying "I wish X Variation had move Y from Z variation"

Oh... and most importantly... it would also stop Kitana from being a lame ass Jade or Mileena. If MK12 has variations, she will probably grow a couple more arms and become a second rate Sheeva).

 

[Vslayer]

I honestly prefer no presets, just give us a full character and don't advertise for customization when it's not legal. I didn't like variations even in MKX, I always felt like I was giving up something to get something else and I hate that. No character feels complete whether they're strong or not.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

MK9.

Remap the inputs and give everyone all of their moves at the same time.

Release the meteor and start over.

 

[Geshwinne]

Nah, double down. 3 variations, different strings and specials for each, and extra execution for meter burning specials, not a button press...less KB damage and extra execution on those also. FBs are one time use only...

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Mk9 alot of characters were OP broken so what did they do add more moves to balance lol.

We don't have broken characters like mk9 so I could have hope that if they focus on a characters 1 moveset they would be fine.

At first I wanted custom moves but started playing player match and realize that some characters become broken AF and others it changes nothing gameplan wise.

 

[spidey300]

fucking none. characters had usable variety of moves before the variation system. mkx's was kind of fun it worked in some way but they took it too far with inj2 and mk11. every other fighting game can make their characters just fine without this. just padding casual content in there

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Personally I want Customs where I can build my character the way I want to play them not how someone else thought they should be.
It can be balanced by adjusting the moves after they are found broke.

Variations is ok but I feel its kind of limiting. The fact that I want to use different moves on nearly every character is what draws me away from variations. But if they added 3-5 variations maybe I'd feel the character is my style? Shit like Kabal Spin move is what makes me cringe at the idea of Preset variations.

Full Characters would be great honestly, if we had all of the abilities added to the character as base moves. Then I'd feel they where more to each character but I'm completely fine with Custom Variations and prefer that method but if it wasn't possible I'd choose the more variations in hopes they picked one variation that fit my style with all the characters.

 

[Kanalratte]

no variations. better for balancing.

 

[Bagman]

I gotta say the idea that MK9 characters are 'full' characters because there are no variation moves is laughable. MK9 Liu Kang had Fireball, Low Fireball, Flying Kick, Bicycle Kick and Parry. MK11 Liu Kang (Luohan Quan) has Fireball, Low Fireball, Flying Kick, Bicycle Kick, Parry...and Shaolin Stance. You can do a similar comparison between # of special moves in an MK11 variation with most characters.

The notion that without variations, characters would have more or even all of their custom moves in a single character is complete fiction and also would be ridiculous. Take MK11, remove a variation from each character, and there, that's your MK9.

As of the patch, most characters have two viable variations with distinct playstyles. How is that not better than a single character with a single playstyle? Again I must stress that removing variations would not mean all the moves would get dumped into a single character. That wouldn't even be a good thing. Combining two different playstyles into one character would actually result in less diversity, because the more things each character can excel at the less diversity there actually is.

You should see some of the moves left in casual...some look really good but are never used cause casual defeats the purpose of labbing the game. Also an MK9 variation system would give the devs time to create good experiences with the characters. If you open SF move list you'd be surprised when your having so much fun with the game.

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

I say presets. MKX ended up being pretty balanced between variations among most characters and I enjoyed the variety.

Though I am open to going MK9 style again IF the roster is big and the character choices are good.(No special forces bullshit)

 

[Pizza]

None. I want each character to have a unique moveset and that's it. Experimentation was fine in MKX, but it became trash just one game later.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Either full custom or MK9. Those are the only choices to me. I hate having moves restricted and I hate having moves that I will literally never use.

Both of the options I listed allow all moves to be used either at the players discretion or as one full character.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

If we can't have customs then I would choose presets merely for the fact that putting man hours into creating all these extra attacks, embedding them into a system-wide feature that is clearly meant to permeate throughout every game mode, and then locking them out of the one mode that many players will hoist onto a pedestal resulting in the former being completely ignored is a massive fucking waste. NRS has decided to do this, twice.

I gotta say the idea that MK9 characters are 'full' characters because there are no variation moves is laughable. MK9 Liu Kang had Fireball, Low Fireball, Flying Kick, Bicycle Kick and Parry. MK11 Liu Kang (Luohan Quan) has Fireball, Low Fireball, Flying Kick, Bicycle Kick, Parry...and Shaolin Stance. You can do a similar comparison between # of special moves in an MK11 variation with most characters.

The notion that without variations, characters would have more or even all of their custom moves in a single character is complete fiction and also would be ridiculous. Take MK11, remove a variation from each character, and there, that's your MK9.

As of the patch, most characters have two viable variations with distinct playstyles. How is that not better than a single character with a single playstyle? Again I must stress that removing variations would not mean all the moves would get dumped into a single character. That wouldn't even be a good thing. Combining two different playstyles into one character would actually result in less diversity, because the more things each character can excel at the less diversity there actually is.

Thank you for this post, and to the other posters who also recognize this massively overlooked aspect. It's extremely easy to just demand that every extra move just be crammed into one loadout and call it a day, but not a single person who makes this claim considers what the designer behind that character's loadout has to think about when creating it.

Again I must stress that removing variations would not mean all the moves would get dumped into a single character. That wouldn't even be a good thing.

I'll even further highlight this part because it's so important. Ironically, a lot of the people I see making the argument that characters are "incomplete" and should just be stuffed with all the moves at once are also parroting that opening customs to ranked would be too chaotic and difficult to balance.

That, and it seems we're all perfectly content to argue variations promote ignoring moves that are considered lesser than others while also pretending there has never been dead moves in MK9 or most other fighting games.

 

[caseyMFjones]

No variations in the future, por favor. I was initially intrigued about them when they were revealed in MKX, but then we got ones like Unbreakable Sub-Zero (lol) that just clearly weren't viable. I liked the idea of what they were going for with the variation system, but I personally don't think they've been implemented very well.

Fast forward to now with MK11, where we now have only 2 variations (for the moment) to work with. Some of the variations in this game seem very haphazardly slapped together, in my opinion. Examples: pre-patch Seeing Double (Noob), New Era (Geras), Dead Of Winter (Sub), Spellmaster (Shang), and Showstopper (Johnny).

Having said that, I have been and will continue playing Kustoms until Kabal gets Hook Grab and Kano gets Snake Bite in their future 3rd variations.


EDIT: Originally said Thin Ice instead of Dead Of Winter