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Question Vanilla Sub Zero tier position?

hey dudes. so, where does Sub Zero stand in the tier list before you install patches? i assume he's pretty high up there with his resets.

also, does he have 2 resets or one?

thanks
 
cooly. i was inspired by that vanilla smoke combo vid from a while back and i wanna make one for vanilla sub, showin off all his resets and whatnot. thinkin bout callin it "vanilla ice".(and featuring a bunch of vanilla ice songs) dont have a capture card setup right now so feel free to steal this idea(just do a good job of it).
 
SZ would be better but not too much. He'd destroy low tier characters whereas now he just beats them. He'd do better vs jax, noob, reptile and maybe sonya (armor was weird then). No kenshi or freddy. JC would without a doubt be a good MU whereas now it's debatable (would still be 6-4 cuz no armor and +11 sweep). MUs where sz (arguably) loses to now would likely stay the same though. Examples: sindel, kit, lao, shang, cyrax, smoke, raiden, kabal, etc.

212 iceball, ex ice puddle, b2 reset was a lot more difficult to escape than 22 iceball, b2 reset. Anyone without armor was pretty much fucked. So with one bar, sz's come back ability was a lot better against characters like kit and cyrax.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
SZ would be better but not too much. He'd destroy low tier characters whereas now he just beats them. He'd do better vs jax, noob, reptile and maybe sonya (armor was weird then). No kenshi or freddy. JC would without a doubt be a good MU whereas now it's debatable (would still be 6-4 cuz no armor and +11 sweep). MUs where sz (arguably) loses to now would likely stay the same though. Examples: sindel, kit, lao, shang, cyrax, smoke, raiden, kabal, etc.

212 iceball, ex ice puddle, b2 reset was a lot more difficult to escape than 22 iceball, b2 reset. Anyone without armor was pretty much fucked. So with one bar, sz's come back ability was a lot better against characters like kit and cyrax.
the reset was inescapable when done correctly

some of the MU's you think are losing... aren't....

needless to say.... being able to dole out 60% and huge wall carry is a big deal. Smoke players know whats up.
 
If vanilla Kung Lao was just installed into this game as another character, what would his position be on the tier list? Would he be S+ tier with Kabal? Or would he be even way higher?
He'd be tied with kabal for number 1 probably. Insane damage output plus better low hat versus a kabal with more damage and I'm guessing more frame advantage off ndc.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
He'd be tied with kabal for number 1 probably. Insane damage output plus better low hat versus a kabal with more damage and I'm guessing more frame advantage off ndc.
Kabal had block infinites with f32 lol. Broken as fuck lol. But Kung Lao literally had an infinite combo so that is probably better
 

Johnny Joestar

REMOVE KUHBAWL
He has the ice puddle reset. 212 freeze ex ice puddle or something like that.

This game has come a long way since 2011 so even if you play unpatched against a skilled player, it will probably be a different matchup.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I like how this debate started out with intense declaration of changes that everyone had to deal with and boiled down to.."okay yeah, it's because people didn't know how to deal with B2 shenanigans back then" lol.

better low hat
You do realize Sektor (oddly enough) could punish it in vanilla right? And that he can still get the frame advantage from the EX version? When are people ever gonna get over pre-patch low hat lol..

(that's rhetorical by the way, I say this amongst a community that expects spirit charge to be full combo punishable after all..)
 
You do realize Sektor (oddly enough) could punish it in vanilla right? And that he can still get the frame advantage from the EX version? When are people ever gonna get over pre-patch low hat lol..

(that's rhetorical by the way, I say this amongst a community that expects spirit charge to be full combo punishable after all..)
Sektor punishing low hat is practically a just frame. The fact that low hat is -7 helps with poking. Doing dumbass shit like 24 low hat is obviously a bad idea. Midscreen low hats would be better than midscreen low hats now, and d4 low hat would be a lot better vs sonya, cage and pretty much everyone. f3 low hat would also be safe.
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
He'd be tied with kabal for number 1 probably. Insane damage output plus better low hat versus a kabal with more damage and I'm guessing more frame advantage off ndc.
Low hat was always punishable on block, the only difference was it gave plus 20 on hit which was enough for Kung Lao to get a guaranteed standing 21 or 24 follow up. Anyway who cares about low hat when Spin was safe on block?
 
Low hat was always punishable on block, the only difference was it gave plus 20 on hit which was enough for Kung Lao to get a guaranteed standing 21 or 24 follow up. Anyway who cares about low hat when Spin was safe on block?
Low hat was -7 pre-patch.
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
Low hat was -7 pre-patch.
I thought it was always -12? Either way it still meant Kung Lao had to stop his pressure if it was blocked and it was pretty much always to be expected after 24 since the overhead finisher was VERY unsafe back then.
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
JC would without a doubt be a good MU whereas now it's debatable (would still be 6-4 cuz no armor and +11 sweep).
I don't know about that, armor makes a huge difference in that matchup. No armored red kick meant all sub zero had to do was stand back and react to anything Cage tried to do.