Tech - Killer Using Stance Cancel Pressure Correctly

[KGA Prosaic]

Here's something.

Basically I'm using the hit advantage of the string 12 (Ha of 15) to allow me to gain some meter, close in the distance, and combo into 22. 22 having the start up of 8 so it jails into the string and has the block advantage of +2. If done correctly. The opponent is left having to block the 22, cannot be low profiled, back dashed, nor armored through.
First option is his 6f d3, cannot be out poked and is a low option with decent hit advantage.
Second option is the f12 7f start up and a great string to build meter and cause devastating damage.
Third option is to use the +2 advantage to bait out a reversal and then punish with devastating damage. I hope you enjoy, everyone. Credit goes out to the Killer thread mentioning that advantage of canceling 12 into berserker stance 4 and canceling afterwards.

 

[Raise-Your-Sword]

Nice!! Time to lab.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Won't it be faster to just do BS~3(the immediate cancel option)?

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

This pleases me immensely.

 

[Colest]

Won't it be faster to just do BS~3(the immediate cancel option)?

I think the idea is to condition them to be unsure if the unblockable is coming since the animation is very obvious. If they see the animation it could scare them into trying to poke out or punish since BS4 is full combo punishable. Keeping the option of any normal leading into the unblockable is a stressful pseudo mixup. I would think ideally you'd want to hold the unblockable animation as many frames as possible in respect to the HA to give them the least amount of time to react.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I think the idea is to condition them to be unsure if the unblockable is coming since the animation is very obvious. If they see the animation it could scare them into trying to poke out or punish since BS4 is full combo punishable. Keeping the option of any normal leading into the unblockable is a stressful pseudo mixup. I would think ideally you'd want to hold the unblockable animation as many frames as possible in respect to the HA to give them the least amount of time to react.

Makes sense

 

[Ghosty1981]

Won't it be faster to just do BS~3(the immediate cancel option)?

In addition to what others have said, BS4c is faster than BSc. The standard cancel goes through the whole animation.

 

[Invincible Salads]

so then how does his cancels work on block? is there any of them that are plus on block or anything?

 

[Ghosty1981]

so then how does his cancels work on block? is there any of them that are plus on block or anything?

Not quite sure what you mean. You cancel before contact, so there is no blockstun.

BS1 has really fast recovery on block though, can't remember the exact number but it's near neutral I think. F12xxBS1 on block just about lets you freely do F12xxBS1 again. Great for building meter.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Not quite sure what you mean. You cancel before contact, so there is no blockstun.

BS1 has really fast recovery on block though, can't remember the exact number but it's near neutral I think. F12xxBS1 on block just about lets you freely do F12xxBS1 again. Great for building meter.

i meant like doing a high cancel advantage move canceled into BS4 cancel that with 3 and perform another string, would u be at advantage at all?

 

[Ghosty1981]

i meant like doing a high cancel advantage move canceled into BS4 cancel that with 3 and perform another string, would u be at advantage at all?

In the Killer sticky thread there is a post about the frame data for canceling BS on hit. The best is F2, IIRC. The practical application is to end a combo with F2xxBS4, which you can then follow through for an extra 14% damage, or cancel into whatever you'd like. So a combo like F12 BS1ex njp rc 12 BD4 F2 BS4 gives you many options beyond just finishing out for pure damage.

With as fast as Leatherface can punish, this can set up a full reset.

 

[Invincible Salads]

In the Killer sticky thread there is a post about the frame data for canceling BS on hit. The best is F2, IIRC. The practical application is to end a combo with F2xxBS4, which you can then follow through for an extra 14% damage, or cancel into whatever you'd like. So a combo like F12 BS1ex njp rc 12 BD4 F2 BS4 gives you many options beyond just finishing out for pure damage.

With as fast as Leatherface can punish, this can set up a full reset.

imeant cancelling on block.

 

[dennycascade]

imeant cancelling on block.

They're all pretty negative (b1 being the safest at -4) but it's more about the mindgames and conditioning than traditional block pressure. You can condition people to try to poke you after f12 berserk stance by going into BS4 on block, then decide to go for f12 into BS1 (which is a true blockstring) or a delayed BS1 to catch them pressing buttons for full combo. Really that's just a simpler mindgame you can try but the possibilities are endless. I'm sure once he's been fully fleshed out his berserk stance shenanigans will be some of the nastiest stuff in the game.

 

[Invincible Salads]

They're all pretty negative (b1 being the safest at -4) but it's more about the mindgames and conditioning than traditional block pressure. You can condition people to try to poke you after f12 berserk stance by going into BS4 on block, then decide to go for f12 into BS1 (which is a true blockstring) or a delayed BS1 to catch them pressing buttons for full combo. Really that's just a simpler mindgame you can try but the possibilities are endless. I'm sure once he's been fully fleshed out his berserk stance shenanigans will be some of the nastiest stuff in the game.

so he doesnt have anything that gives him advantage by cancelling on block then, like doing 4~BS4~3~12 or anything like that?

 

[dennycascade]

so he doesnt have anything that gives him advantage by cancelling on block then, like doing 4~BS4~3~12 or anything like that?

Nope, nothing like that at all.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Nope, nothing like that at all.

alright, but does something l ike that still work as a mind game then or nah not really? ITs still confusing to me. lol

 

[KGA Prosaic]

so then how does his cancels work on block? is there any of them that are plus on block or anything?

I actually named the post of this like this because of how people are using the berserker stance cancels as a tool to pressure. Any pokes or strings canceled into stance switch cancel is far from positive. Half of them are even safe. I have a screen cap of the frame data but can't seem to figure out how to upload the picture without going through a picture sharing site.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I actually named the post of this like this because of how people are using the berserker stance cancels as a tool to pressure. Any pokes or strings canceled into stance switch cancel is far from positive. Half of them are even safe. I have a screen cap of the frame data but can't seem to figure out how to upload the picture without going through a picture sharing site.

alright, cuz i'd really like to know how killer works.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

Killer seems almost gimmicky but does have guaranteed set ups like above. Youre using this variation because it's the easiest to convert into high damage and hard to punish.

 

[Ghosty1981]

Killer seems almost gimmicky but does have guaranteed set ups like above. Youre using this variation because it's the easiest to convert into high damage and hard to punish.

This is my view. The cancels are a great feature, but they are icing on the cake.

The fact that Killer has extremely fast (and safe) punishes that can do up to 50% damage with one meter is the main appeal. If your opponent slips up just twice in the match it's an easy win. The cancels are simply a way to encourage such mistakes.

The fact that BS1 is so fast and safe on block is a great feature. F12 delayed BS1 is a nice counter-punish, for example. I need to practice it, but I've also caught people with BS4c BS1 as they try to poke the BS4 that never comes.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Nope, nothing like that at all.

False.

If you end a combo in sparks f2 BS4c you are at least +15. Doesnt quite grant you a free 50/50 but does grant you free pressure afterwards.

@KGA Prosaic would you mind adding this to the OP? This is good info to know.

An example of this would be:

F12 BS1ex NJP run 12 bd4 f2 BS4c f12 bs1

The above is a true blockstring.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

False.

If you end a combo in sparks f2 BS4c you are at least +15. Doesnt quite grant you a free 50/50 but does grant you free pressure afterwards.

@KGA Prosaic would you mind adding this to the OP? This is good info to know.

An example of this would be:

F12 BS1ex NJP run 12 bd4 f2 BS4c f12 bs1

The above is a true blockstring.

Like F12 can't be ducked under? sweet

 

[dennycascade]

False.

If you end a combo in sparks f2 BS4c you are at least +15. Doesnt quite grant you a free 50/50 but does grant you free pressure afterwards.

@KGA Prosaic would you mind adding this to the OP? This is good info to know.

An example of this would be:

F12 BS1ex NJP run 12 bd4 f2 BS4c f12 bs1

The above is a true blockstring.

He's talking about on block, like if you could do f12 BS4 cancel and be plus on block. F2 into BS4 canceled is way more than +15 on hit btw.

 

[Zoidberg747]

He's talking about on block, like if you could do f12 BS4 cancel and be plus on block. F2 into BS4 canceled is way more than +15 on hit btw.

Oh I see, I thought he meant in general.

I figured it must be more than +15 but got tired of testing lol.

Like F12 can't be ducked under? sweet

Edit: You're talking about after F2 BS4c? No, you can't duck the f1 followup.

 

[KGA Prosaic]

12, 22, f2 it doesn't exactly matter which you use since they're all 15 frames of Hit. I would recommend 12 or 22 over f2 since youll build more meter on block from the other two.