Universal MU-Chart and Mathematical Tierlist

This has got to be discussed right here:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777450635731869787

Thoughts???

 

This list and methodology is awesome. I've been really tired of recent tier list discussions where people just discuss "tools" and not matchups, and consistently list characters like Tanya way too low. I've been very confident that Kenshi was also being grossly overrated by many for a while now, so it feels good to see that reflected in both the data outcome tier list, and the comp players' perceptions on his matchups.

 

im calling the MU police on Kenshi players

 

I’m sorry there is no way kenshi is that low with the potential of sento. The rest is very agreeable imo

 

Frankly, I'm surprised that Sub-Zero is so damn high on the list. But then again, not really. His Klone buffs helped him more than people really know.

 

im calling the MU police on Kenshi players

Which MUs do you disagree with?

 

Which MUs do you disagree with?

There is no fucking way that he struggles in 7 matchups, one of which is SCORPION who is, in my opinion, one of the shittier characters on the roster.

 

There is no fucking way that he struggles in 7 matchups, one of which is SCORPION who is, in my opinion, one of the shittier characters on the roster.

I mean, its not like the MU numbers are a Kenshi player agenda - the whole point of the list is that every group of players on either side of the MU agrees with each MU number, so the Scorp players agree with the Kenshi players that Scorp wins. I play both Kenshi and Scorp, and I also agree that Scorp wins.

Kenshi is ridiculous but yeah he has a lot of bad MUs, people just can't see past their own nam flashbacks of getting robbed by sento.

 

I mean, its not like the MU numbers are a Kenshi player agenda - the whole point of the list is that every group of players on either side of the MU agrees with each MU number, so the Scorp players agree with the Kenshi players that Scorp wins. I play both Kenshi and Scorp, and I also agree that Scorp wins.

Kenshi is ridiculous but yeah he has a lot of bad MUs, people just can't see past their own nam flashbacks of getting robbed by sento.

The toolkit alone is laughable when you compare the two. A puppet stance with pseudo infinites vs what, some long ranging pokes? One leg above Scorpion? No fucking way haha even if Scorpion "does well" they are right next to each other in the middle of the road which is not even remotely accurate to their toolkits.

 

The toolkit alone is laughable when you compare the two. A puppet stance with pseudo infinites vs what, some long ranging pokes? One leg above Scorpion? No fucking way haha even if Scorpion "does well" they are right next to each other in the middle of the road which is not even remotely accurate to their toolkits.

I can't even tell what you're trying to say here to be honest - but looking at toolkits in a vacuum / out of context of a MU is a waste of time.

Without getting into too much detail since I doubt I'll convince you, Scorpion lames Kenshi out really well, especially with Khameleon or Stryker. Luckily I don't need to convince you - the current best Scorpion player in the world Javier seems to agree.

 

It’s a bummer to realize havik has no winning matchups damn. I do think he beats omni man 6-4 tho he can armor all the Lao htbs.

 

Hi everyone!

OP of the thread here. If anyone has any questions, I’ll do my best to answer them

 

Whats the opposite of havik master race
Havik slumlord?

 

I cannot for the life of me understand how Tanya is THAT high. Better matchups than Johnny, Sindel and Raiden? What?? Reiko is also surprisingly high imo. The rest I can more or less agree (even though I dont think Kenshi should be that low as well).

 

Peacemaker at the top... Sindle 3rd row, Kenshi 4th row, Gares 5th row, Nitara at the bottom with smoke and, Tanya at the top and , and ... well the rest of it?!

OP of the thread here. If anyone has any questions, I’ll do my best to answer them

yea... what drugs were you on when you made this, and do you have enough for the rest of the party?

 

Hi everyone!

OP of the thread here. If anyone has any questions, I’ll do my best to answer them

Yes thank you for coming thru happy to see you here

 

This has got to be discussed right here:

View attachment 21533

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777450635731869787

Thoughts???

i appreciate the effort but how does this even make a sense without including kameos?

 

Tanya is way better than people think, I can 100% believe she has that many winning matchups.

 

There is no fucking way that he struggles in 7 matchups, one of which is SCORPION who is, in my opinion, one of the shittier characters on the roster.

Just gonna say that you've been playing long enough and at a high enough level to understand that sometimes mid or bad characters have good MUs against better characters.

 

Just gonna say that you've been playing long enough and at a high enough level to understand that sometimes mid or bad characters have good MUs against better characters.

Yes but my issue is at a high level how the fuck did an entire community of players let Kenshi be labeled so mid when he has the ability to take one opening and turn it into a one player game, numerous times in a match? I know I can't win any argument here,as I don't play either character but I genuinely think scorpion is an unfinished character that has no dirt, where as Kenshi has an insane toolkit. I cannot believe the MU numbers. Even if scorpion does well in the MU, the overall opinion that Kenshi is in the middle of the road is laughable to me. 7 bad matchups? Do 7 characters have the ability to escape Sento sandwich pressure differently? I can see Cage being a 4-6 at a high level but I just don't see these others. Kenshi takes an inch and goes a mile, regardless of the matchup, and I have seen this over and over and over. I see only ONE scorpion cooking

 

Peacemaker at the top... Sindle 3rd row, Kenshi 4th row, Gares 5th row, Nitara at the bottom with smoke and, Tanya at the top and , and ... well the rest of it?!



yea... what drugs were you on when you made this, and do you have enough for the rest of the party?

Takes two to tango brother! In order to come to a conclusion, both parties had to agree on a match-up. Meaning, I can’t just say Tanya is Top 2 in game without getting approval from the other 25 character group representatives. Everyone agreed to each others winning, losing and even MU’s. May be difficult to understand at face value since a lot of the intricate details are only seen by their respective playerbase.

 

This is as close to an objective tier list that we'll get for the current state of the game. Its hilarious when people are met with the truth and outright reject it when it doesn't match their emotional reality.

i appreciate the effort but how does this even make a sense without including kameos?

Pretty sure was made considering each character using the kameo that will best serve them in every single respective MU.

 

Im inclined to believe Tanya is so high because of lack of match-up knowledge. What exactly does she bring to matchups that make them all so even? Her damage is decent, she has mediocre zoning, okay mobility and she covers her gaps with the relatively expensive Goro Kameo - Stryker as well, but Mileena is a hard counter for that. She has no setups and hard to blockables. Basically she is strike-throw into armored reversal, over and over.

 

This is as close to an objective tier list that we'll get for the current state of the game. Its hilarious when people are met with the truth and outright reject it when it doesn't match their emotional reality.



Pretty sure was made considering each character using the kameo that will best serve them in every single respective MU.

You’ve got the right idea

 

Peacemaker being far above the rest is not at all surprising. What an absolute busted character. Not only does he have the most favorable MU’s, he has an insane toolkit.