General/Other - Unbreakable Unbreakable aura got a "nerf".

[Lokheit]

Just wanted to warn everyone about "kind of a nerf" suffered by Unbreakable.

Because of the new "aura can keep the combo" buff, using the aura during a combo applies a damage penalty of 0.85 (in other words, the following damage is reduced to 85% of the original damage, for reference, regular iceball reduces following damage to 75%). This is a very rare case of a move that applies a penalty without hitting (other exceptions are special move cancels that apply a 0.9 penalty) and for example Grand Master f4 into Ex Clone into fast combo won't apply a penalty while it's basically the same (a special fast enough to keep you with enough frames to continue the combo).

I know this is done just for balance, and up to that point it's ok... but the regular aura also got the damage penalty of 0.85 even if it isn't fast enough to keep a combo going.

This means that if you're used to do stater -> iceball -> aura up -> continue the combo, now in addition to the 0.75 penalty of the iceball you have another 0.85 penalty (combined this means you're only getting 63.75% of following combo damage).

So just wanted to share this and advice all Unbreakable players to armor up after the knockdown instead of in the middle of combos unless you're using the EX Aura to extend the combo. It's tempting to use the aura after a freeze because it looks like the perfect moment with no pressure, but you're ruining your combo damage by doing that.

 

[Braindead]

Good catch.

I never use a naked Aura after freeze, I prefer to activate it after a knockdown.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

the only time i used aura after a freeze was if i was going to end the combo with a shatter for more damage. slide into ice aura is completely safe
edit: nevermind you get less damage even if you hit the break in a combo lmao

 

[Lokheit]

Good catch.

I never use a naked Aura after freeze, I prefer to activate it after a knockdown.

Yeah I also prefer to activate after a knock down, but today I was toying with the improved bomb on meterless combos and found this.

You better have the aura up when you start the combo if you want the extra damage of the bomb because activating it after the freeze won't help.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Unbreakable breaks my heart...

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Meanwhile the Kenshi forums are collectively shitting out of one big, blind tuckus.

 

[STRYKIE]

Was to be expected. This is a fairly universal mechanic that applies to all specials that leave enough frame advantage for 2-in-1 combos though. The aggregated damage all depends on how much damage you did before going into the special.

Liu Kang is a good example of this with FBRC, EX Flame Buff, and Metamorphosis in their respective variations.

 

[Braindead]

Was to be expected. This is a fairly universal mechanic that applies to all specials that leave enough frame advantage for 2-in-1 combos though. The aggregated damage all depends on how much damage you did before going into the special.

Liu Kang is a good example of this with FBRC, EX Flame Buff, and Metamorphosis in their respective variations.

Yeah but he isn't talking about cancels though.

Some unbreakable players usually activate the aura when they catch someone with an ice ball then continue the combo. OP is talking about doing that. If you do that your combo will scale, even though it's not used as a link.

 

[STRYKIE]

Yeah but he isn't talking about cancels though.

Some unbreakable players usually activate the aura when they catch someone with an ice ball then continue the combo. OP is talking about doing that. If you do that your combo will scale, even though it's not used as a link.

I wouldn't really consider Dualist's Metamorphosis to be a cancel either.

Ultimately it's hard to explain but with the way scaling works it does make sense, and I doubt NRS directly adjusted this when they buffed the Ice Aura.

 

[omooba]

Just wanted to warn everyone about "kind of a nerf" suffered by Unbreakable.

Because of the new "aura can keep the combo" buff, using the aura during a combo applies a damage penalty of 0.85 (in other words, the following damage is reduced to 85% of the original damage, for reference, regular iceball reduces following damage to 75%). This is a very rare case of a move that applies a penalty without hitting (other exceptions are special move cancels that apply a 0.9 penalty) and for example Grand Master f4 into Ex Clone into fast combo won't apply a penalty while it's basically the same (a special fast enough to keep you with enough frames to continue the combo).

I know this is done just for balance, and up to that point it's ok... but the regular aura also got the damage penalty of 0.85 even if it isn't fast enough to keep a combo going.

This means that if you're used to do stater -> iceball -> aura up -> continue the combo, now in addition to the 0.75 penalty of the iceball you have another 0.85 penalty (combined this means you're only getting 63.75% of following combo damage).

So just wanted to share this and advice all Unbreakable players to armor up after the knockdown instead of in the middle of combos unless you're using the EX Aura to extend the combo. It's tempting to use the aura after a freeze because it looks like the perfect moment with no pressure, but you're ruining your combo damage by doing that.

Same things happens everytime you run cancel

 

[Lokheit]

Same things happens everytime you run cancel

That's already mentioned in the post you quoted

 

[I GOT HANDS]

the only time i used aura after a freeze was if i was going to end the combo with a shatter for more damage. slide into ice aura is completely safe
edit: nevermind you get less damage even if you hit the break in a combo lmao

But you lose advantage tho

 

[Prinz]

What?! No crying and bitching?! Stay classy Sub-Zero community.

 

[loogie]

if something like this was caught for Kitana in the Kitana community, we wouldn't see the end of it + walls of comments, screaming and kicking. I actually feel threatened every time I go there

about the OP, it's a good observation. and thanks for sharing.

 

[omooba]

That's already mentioned in the post you quoted

Something kept telling me to read the entire post first lol

 

[ColdSpine]

damage reduction in this variation really saddens me since it isnt high in the first place. getting a good read on opponent for 27%-30 damage is weird and not rewarding to take the risk.

and if you whif your shield enjoy that 40%-43% combo your gonna eat.

im not complaining, but i was so interested in this variation only to be left disappointed in a way i guess.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Yeah I really don't think the damage reduction is necessary. What are NRS scared of? This variation was well agreed on as one of the worst in the game. He got such mild buffs.

 

[Ryncage]

Imo damage needs to be based off highest damage that can be done on any character off 1-2 bars. Characters regardless of kit shouldnt be gimped on damage regardless of combo complexity. Making a charatcer overwhelming stronger just because "muh inputs are harder" os stupid. And that isnt even the case in nrs's case. (Lookin at you pred)

The fact that unbreakable has to catch a mistake 3-4 times to take a round is really killing it when you only need to get caught twice by more than half the cast.

Not sure why nrs is so afraid of giving sub damage, Especially when his only overheads are reactable. Prolly personal bias on their end. Cuz they sure as shit dont seem to understand balance or, how math works.

 

[loogie]

Imo damage needs to be based off highest damage that can be done on any character off 1-2 bars.

The fact that unbreakable has to catch a mistake 3-4 times to take a round is really killing it when you only need to get caught twice by more than half the cast.

Not sure why nrs is so afraid of giving sub damage, Especially when his only overheads are reactable. Prolly personal bias on their end. Cuz they sure as shit dont seem to understand balance or, how math works.

b2 is not only reactable, it is also punishable ... and that's what 99% of the community don't know or don't do in a match vs Sub.

 

[Braindead]

Imo damage needs to be based off highest damage that can be done on any character off 1-2 bars. Characters regardless of kit shouldnt be gimped on damage regardless of combo complexity. Making a charatcer overwhelming stronger just because "muh inputs are harder" os stupid. And that isnt even the case in nrs's case. (Lookin at you pred)

The fact that unbreakable has to catch a mistake 3-4 times to take a round is really killing it when you only need to get caught twice by more than half the cast.

Not sure why nrs is so afraid of giving sub damage, Especially when his only overheads are reactable. Prolly personal bias on their end. Cuz they sure as shit dont seem to understand balance or, how math works.

Unbreakable can have up to about 150% health though, so it can take your opponent 4 to 5 combos as well to kill you not 2, just like how much it would take unbreakable to kill the opponent. I'm pretty sure this is NRS' reasoning behind his damage.

Eitherway, his corner damage is fine. He can easily get 40% with one bar and mid 30%s meterless. And you can corner carry your opponent from anywhere on the screen.

I think his offense is fine, but I'm emo because I wanted him to get defensive buffs and he didn't. They gave him a sort of offensive buff which doesn't really do much.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Unbreakable can have up to about 150% health though, so it can take your opponent 4 to 5 combos as well to kill you not 2, just like how much it would take unbreakable to kill the opponent. I'm pretty sure this is NRS' reasoning behind his damage.

That's bad reasoning by NRS tho, because assuming you dedicate your entire bar all game you are still unlikely to have it up for every hit. And then you are playing with no meter.

However if I breaker once on the start of a 40-50% combo im already at like 140% health


EX-Aura sucks donkey balls

 

[Lokheit]

Honestly, I don't think Unbreakable aura needed to apply a damage penalty, I wouldn't demand a change, but I don't think it was necessary. Grand Master can do the exact same thing (harder execution, granted) with an EX Clone and it doesn't have a penalty. I guess they went this route with UB and Deceptive Reptile (have to check it but I guess he has it too) with their new "auras into combos".

0.85 might be a bit high considering that some EX stuns in the game are 0.95 (like any regular jab), but I guess there is justification and they didn't want to buff it too much.

Now, what doesn't have any logical explanation is giving it to the normal one too, as you can't use it to keep a combo going and it nullifies the damage buff it gives to the ice bomb that was introduced on the same patch (in fact you deal less damage even with the improved bomb if you activate the aura during a combo to benefit from the increased damage... which doesn't make much sense).

IMO Unbreakable right now suffers an identity crisis, it's supposed to be defensive, but the aura is now used to extend combos and you can consume it to deal more damage... but the point of the aura is to keep it on to defend yourself... and if you keep it on you can't cast it again to extend a combo... so you have to consume it... but you have low damage because the aura will protect you, so you need it active... (etc)

 

[Braindead]

IMO Unbreakable right now suffers an identity crisis, it's supposed to be defensive, but the aura is now used to extend combos and you can consume it to deal more damage... but the point of the aura is to keep it on to defend yourself... and if you keep it on you can't cast it again to extend a combo... so you have to consume it... but you have low damage because the aura will protect you, so you need it active... (etc)

This 10000000%

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

But you lose advantage tho

Its not like Unbreakable has a great oki game anyway

 

[crosshair271]

Now, what doesn't have any logical explanation is giving it to the normal one too, as you can't use it to keep a combo going and it nullifies the damage buff it gives to the ice bomb that was introduced on the same patch (in fact you deal less damage even with the improved bomb if you activate the aura during a combo to benefit from the increased damage... which doesn't make much sense).

You can link a combo off the regular Aura just like Reptiles Noxious gas. Try B12xxAura, 11/F42/B12/242. They all link. I just omit the freeze and do B12xxAura, 242, Run, 1, B12xxAura Ice Burst. Because of this link capability off regular Aura I think that's why they added damage protection.