Tech - Tremor Tremors EX Punch Cancels

[podizzler3000]

the armor is retained during the dash, it is not transferred to the next attack.

just thinking about tremors forward dash is making me uneasy

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

A little late there

This can be countered by Ex nutpunch

 

[D. R.]

Here people. This is what Fox is talking about with the plus frames. It's only applicable after f121 and f3 run cancelled.

As for retaining armor on the first hit of a string, @SonicFox5000 you'd have to show me that since I've only seem him retain it through the dash, not the next attack.

 

[TemperingMoon]

Where's M2Dave? I want to see what he has to say about this tech that SonicFox is telling us about. I'm curious as to know what his refute would be.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

if you do a a FRAME perfect string off of f121 into another f121 it is a true block string. if you are any later you get no armor at all on the next hit, if it is slightly delayed you can counter 7 frame ex moves but thats about it from my research. D1/D3 into Ex dashpunch is very good to blow up counter pokes though

 

[D. R.]

if you do a a FRAME perfect string off of f121 into another f121 it is a true block string. if you are any later you get no armor at all on the next hit, if it is slightly delayed you can counter 7 frame ex moves but thats about it from my research. D1/D3 into Ex dashpunch is very good to blow up counter pokes though

It doesn't have to be truly perfect off f121. Seems you get an extra frame or two due to the strings plus frames on block. Something like 21d4u4 or b1d4u4 EN dash cancelled into f121 is a frame perfect block string but that ain't happening in a real match. Basically, I can loop f121 EN dash cancel into itself much easier than I can another string EN dash cancelled into f121. Final thought, keeping in mind meter and stamina, the most chip I've gotten in one block string was this:

*SSC = ENdb2~run cancel

21d4u4(ENdd1 goes off) xx SSC, 21d4u4 xx SSC, f121 xx db1u = 14.5% chip, builds just shy of one meter but cost 3.

That's not that scary but someone start crying nerf already since this is TYM and block strings scare the masses here.

 

[SHAOLIN]

There are definitely multiple posts on this as well as videos

Nevermind then.

 

[Knoterror]

Wouldn't f121 followup just be downpoke countered since f1 is a high? I understand about the armor, but I'm not sure if the 2 in f12 would come out fast enough to punish.

 

[infamy23]

Here people. This is what Fox is talking about with the plus frames. It's only applicable after f121 and f3 run cancelled.

As for retaining armor on the first hit of a string, @SonicFox5000 you'd have to show me that since I've only seem him retain it through the dash, not the next attack.

As I already explained, you retain the armor for 30 frames after the special cancel starts to animate.

In this screenshot, Cassie is making contact with Tremor on the 24th frame after the special cancel.

Tremor is already on the 8th frame of his f1, and he is absorbing the hit from the flip.

 

[M2Dave]

Where's M2Dave? I want to see what he has to say about this tech that SonicFox is telling us about. I'm curious as to know what his refute would be.

As D. R. stated, this tech is more or less two weeks old. I have said my final piece on Tremor in this post.

 

[infamy23]

Wouldn't f121 followup just be downpoke countered since f1 is a high? I understand about the armor, but I'm not sure if the 2 in f12 would come out fast enough to punish.

No you can't downpoke because it jails, so the next f1 will make contact with you before you can come out of your blocking animation.

This is different from KL's EXdb1 11212 because Lao's f1 doesn't make contact with you when you're crouch blocking which is why you can get out of that one.

As for the armor, there is no armor with f121 EXdb2 rc f121 because that string has so much blockstun that by the time you do the 2nd f121, the 30 frames of armor have already expired.

 

[D. R.]

As I already explained, you retain the armor for 30 frames after the special cancel starts to animate.

In this screenshot, Cassie is making contact with Tremor on the 24th frame after the special cancel.

Tremor is already on the 8th frame of his f1, and he is absorbing the hit from the flip.

What are you using to count the frames and off what moves are you canceling the ENdb2? My results are not conclusive to what you posted.

f121 armor cancel f121 gets blown up by Cassie's EN flip.
d3 armor cancel f121 does not, as shown in you picture.

Basically it seems the less advantage Tremor is at, the better the armor works. Does that make sense? If you can disprove this I'll gladly try to apply it into something broken. lol

Edit: Refresh shows your post above mine but the blockstun explanation doesn't make sense.

 

[infamy23]

What are you using to count the frames and off what moves are you canceling the ENdb2? My results are not conclusive to what you posted.

f121 armor cancel f121 gets blown up by Cassie's EN flip.
d3 armor cancel f121 does not, as shown in you picture.

Basically it seems the less advantage Tremor is at, the better the armor works. Does that make sense? If you can disprove this I'll gladly try to apply it into something broken. lol

You have to take cancel advantage and block advantage into account.

f121 armor cancel f121 does not work because by the time Cassie comes out of blockstun, the 30 frames of armor have already expired, so she hits you.

In my screenshot I'm using 12 EXdb2 rc f1 which allows Cassie to come out of blockstun 24 frames after the 12 has been cancelled into the EXdb2.

I use a 60fps elgato and adobe premiere to count frames.

 

[D. R.]

You have to take cancel advantage and block advantage into account.

f121 armor cancel f121 does not work because by the time Cassie comes out of blockstun, the 30 frames of armor have already expired, so she hits you.

In my screenshot I'm using 12 EXdb2 rc f1 which allows Cassie to come out of blockstun 24 frames after the 12 has been cancelled into the EXdb2.

I use a 60fps elgato and adobe premiere to count frames.

So do this for me, f121 EN dash cancel, but just let him keep running versus Cassie's EN flip on reversal. I'll make it easy on you; he retains the armor. By your logic, he should not. Do you see where I'm getting at or no? Not trying to be a smartass btw, just trying to test all possibilities on something that seems to have potential if I'm thinking it works the way I want it to work.

 

[SonicFox5000]

I think this is very bullshit because its most applied in counterpokes.
You will NOT counterpoke tremor lol

 

[infamy23]

So do this for me, f121 EN dash cancel, but just let him keep running versus Cassie's EN flip on reversal. I'll make it easy on you; he retains the armor. By your logic, he should not. Do you see where I'm getting at or no? Not trying to be a smartass btw, just trying to test all possibilities on something that seems to have potential if I'm thinking it works the way I want it to work.

Why should he not?

I'll break it down.

f121 causes 31 frames of blockstun.

f121 cancels into EXdb2 on the 8th frame of recovery. At this point, 8 out of 31 frames of blockstun have passed. Cassie is still in blockstun for 23 more frames.

That means when her blockstun ends, she has 7 frames to make contact with you before the 30 frames of armor expires. Power flip is a 6 frame reversal.

She ends up making contact on the last possible frame before your armor expires, which is why f121 EXdb2 run will absorb Cassie's flip kick.

If you were to do this with Reptile's 9 frame slide or something, then no, he would not absorb it because that would make contact after the 30 frames of armor have expired.

 

[PND OmegaK]

I think this is very bullshit because its most applied in counterpokes.
You will NOT counterpoke tremor lol

Yeah I found I have more success in beating normals when cancelling from a poke rather than a string. It's a weird input though, gonna take some practice.

 

[D. R.]

Why should he not?

I'll break it down.

f121 causes 31 frames of blockstun.

f121 cancels into EXdb2 on the 8th frame of recovery. At this point, 8 out of 31 frames of blockstun have passed. Cassie is still in blockstun for 23 more frames.

That means when her blockstun ends, she has 7 frames to make contact with you before the 30 frames of armor expires. Power flip is a 6 frame reversal.

She ends up making contact on the last possible frame before your armor expires, which is why f121 EXdb2 run will absorb Cassie's flip kick.

If you were to do this with Reptile's 9 frame slide or something, then no, he would not absorb it because that would make contact after the 30 frames of armor have expired.

I'm tracking now. I was fixated on this working a certain way instead of by design through the games general mechanics. The hope of broken tech is dead.

 

[D. R.]

I think this is very bullshit because its most applied in counterpokes.
You will NOT counterpoke tremor lol

lol Pretty sure any character who wants to burn meter will not be counterpoked, namely anyone with a safe armor move or jailing string like Shinnok's d4 into Hell Spark.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

I think this is very bullshit because its most applied in counterpokes.
You will NOT counterpoke tremor lol

the same can be said for Kung lao ( d1, hat spin) and other character

 

[infamy23]

It's not like this gives Tremor a special ability to armor through things that he otherwise could not.

The entire point of this is that you can armor through a poke without fear of being -12 and punishable if they just block.

If I think you're gonna poke, I armor and you lose 30-43% of your health.

If I think you're gonna poke, I armor but I guessed wrong and you block. Now I confirm my 21 into whatever I want, whereas normally I'd be -12 if I just armored without run cancelling.

This just makes his armor safer on block, it doesn't turn him into some super armoring machine. His armor is still slow as hell and will be stuffed by a million different attacks in this game.

 

[STK]

It can, but it depends on how fast you cancel into it, and how much blockstun your opponent is in.

f121 has a ton of blockstun so by the time he comes out of it, your 30 frames of armor have expired.

It works very well in the situation that fox described. When you d3 someone, their natural reaction is to block it, and do a d3 of their own, to try and counter hit you if you press something.

Normally in this situation, you would do EXdb2u to armor through their d3 on a read. But if they don't counter poke, they will block your db2u and you'll be -12 which is obviously very bad.

With this tech, you can do EXdb2 rc 21d4 and then hit confirm into a db2d for a 30% combo. If you guess wrong and they don't counter poke... well who cares, they are still stuck dealing with your 21 pressure and you are free to mix them up with frame trap, throw, EXdb1 etc...

That's a hell of a lot better than being -12 on block if you guess wrong.

Here's a video of this in action:

Thanks. That answers my question.

It doesn't have to be truly perfect off f121. Seems you get an extra frame or two due to the strings plus frames on block. Something like 21d4u4 or b1d4u4 EN dash cancelled into f121 is a frame perfect block string but that ain't happening in a real match. Basically, I can loop f121 EN dash cancel into itself much easier than I can another string EN dash cancelled into f121. Final thought, keeping in mind meter and stamina, the most chip I've gotten in one block string was this:

*SSC = ENdb2~run cancel

21d4u4(ENdd1 goes off) xx SSC, 21d4u4 xx SSC, f121 xx db1u = 14.5% chip, builds just shy of one meter but cost 3.

That's not that scary but someone start crying nerf already since this is TYM and block strings scare the masses here.

This is a good find. Didnt know you posted this week one. Just started playing the charcter to show someone else how to play him so kinda new here. No disrespect meant. Even tho i find this character to be what SZ should be in aftershock and crystalline so i might have to stick with him.

lol Pretty sure any character who wants to burn meter will not be counterpoked, namely anyone with a safe armor move or jailing string like Shinnok's d4 into Hell Spark.

And this shouldn't work. Neeed to go! lol

 

[ghostwriteous]

I guess the only question to ask now is if this was intentional by design. Since it was with Rain, Im assuming it is with Tremor.

 

[Endeavor]

Easiest way:

ENdb2(hold2+blk)~ffblk(the run cancel)

Thank you my good sir, also, can't wait to see some footage of your tremor when there is some. It's gonna be amazing I'm sure.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I have never been so happy that @SonicFox5000 exists.

Holy pope crap in a box.
This is like Rain's EXRH Cancel and Kabal's Flash Parry had a baby.

Going to the lab immediately.