Tournament Standard? (settings)

[DrDogg]

What Tom said. It's the standard for every game.

If we're planning on having a decent turnout for MK9 tourneys there's no reason to go over 2/3.

Tekken and Soul Calibur do 3/5, which is what I prefer. I understand if it's "MK format" and it's not changing, but it's not the standard for every game, and time constraints are not a valid reason for 2/3 rounds instead of 3/5 rounds.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

You can just stop right there. No one said anything about you, or anyone else, being a scrub. We're simply debating how to determine who is the skilled player.

I'm also going to assume you're referring to Daigo, not diego. But I'd love to see what he had to say about the subject if you have a link.

my bad for over reacting i kind of read bone's post to fast since i am at work now and i kind of miss understood his words.

here is a link i remember another interview but i could not find it

 

[MKF30]

Hey curious guys, has there ever been a tournament in a fighting game without the timer on?

 

[9.95]

Hey curious guys, has there ever been a tournament in a fighting game without the timer on?

Not that I know of... there are some pretty notorious times where someone gets a life lead and then runs away till time runs out...

 

[Lucky Day]

Tekken and Soul Calibur do 3/5, which is what I prefer. I understand if it's "MK format" and it's not changing, but it's not the standard for every game, and time constraints are not a valid reason for 2/3 rounds instead of 3/5 rounds.

Time constraints are perfectly valid reasons for games to run different set lengths.

It's not as big of a deal at huge tournies like EVO, but in locals and regionals a tournament with 50 players can run a lot longer with 3/5 depending on the game.

Obviously we don't know how long MK9 matches will run. It's probably safe to say due to the new trend in fgs that it will be longer on average than most older MK games like UMK3 and MK2.


As for Soul Caliber and Tekken, you could run any tournament 3/5 and not have time issues if only ten people signed up to play everytime.

 

[DrDogg]

Time constraints are perfectly valid reasons for games to run different set lengths.

It's not as big of a deal at huge tournies like EVO, but in locals and regionals a tournament with 50 players can run a lot longer with 3/5 depending on the game.

Obviously we don't know how long MK9 matches will run. It's probably safe to say due to the new trend in fgs that it will be longer on average than most older MK games like UMK3 and MK2.


As for Soul Caliber and Tekken, you could run any tournament 3/5 and not have time issues if only ten people signed up to play everytime.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to say that any previous competitive MK has longer rounds than a Tekken or Soul Calibur game. You'd also be hard-pressed to say that MK tournaments get higher turnouts than Tekken or SC tournaments. So while time contraints are a valid excuse for some games, I really don't think you can say time contraints are the reason MK has been 2/3 instead of 3/5.

 

[Lucky Day]

I think you'd be hard-pressed to say that any previous competitive MK has longer rounds than a Tekken or Soul Calibur game. You'd also be hard-pressed to say that MK tournaments get higher turnouts than Tekken or SC tournaments. So while time contraints are a valid excuse for some games, I really don't think you can say time contraints are the reason MK has been 2/3 instead of 3/5.

You're misunderstanding where I'm coming from.

First, let's throw SC out of the discussion. Nobody plays it. Nobody. It's not in a single major on the tourney scene anywhere in the country and wasn't as far as I know in the entire calendar year of 2010 through the present. It's not at Evo. It's dead (right now, maybe a new one will come out and change it, who knows). It may be at locals dedicated to SC, who knows. Doesn't really apply to what we're talking about because a tourney with 40 total entrants doesn't have to worry about time.

Yeah, old MK games are super quick. We've actually run tourneys 3/5 (I think Tim and I ran a 3/5 last year for one if I remember right). It's obviously no problem to run those 3/5 if we want. Remember we are also running those tourneys on single setups most often, as we run on Mame or Arcade, this affects the amount of time.

What I'm talking about is MK9, and we are basically planning for the best case scenario, and that is that we get big turnout numbers for the game. The hype train is rolling and it would be a good problem to have to worry about time in tourneys with MK9.

If nobody plays the game, and it goes to being 5 players round robin style after a year, then I'm sure it can be revisited.

*Another point worth making, and I'm not sure if you've ever run a tourney before. But when a major has 6 games going concurrently in the same room and you are fighting to get your players to report for matches, time becomes a serious issue. It's hard to run even the smallest tourney quickly when your players are playing games like MvC and Super at the same time and need to get back for the games they take more serious.

 

[DrDogg]

First off, Soul Calibur IV was at DEVASTATION and NEC in 2010. I'm pretty sure both of those tournaments were bigger than any MK tournament last year. SC4 will also be at DEV this year and is looking to have a pretty big turnout. So I think we can leave that one in there.

Secondly, I have run many, many, many tournaments in my time. In fact, I'm Director of Programming for DEVASTATION, which had almost 30 tournaments over a 3 day period last year. So I think I know a thing or two about running tournaments and the potential time constraints that go along with that.

Now the point that I'm making is that Tekken and SC have had bigger tournaments than any MK has ever had. Even if MK9 is really successful on the competitive front, it may not get to turnouts Tekken and SC have seen over the years. What these two games are getting right at this very moment doesn't matter. These games have always been 3/5 rounds in almost every tournament situation. I can only think of one or two tournaments that ever had Tekken on 2/3 rounds and that was only for loser's bracket, half-way through the tournament because we ran out of time (we're talking 1 tournament of probably 100 or so that I've been to).

So if Tekken and SC can run 3/5 and not run into time issues 99 out of 100 times, I'm pretty sure MK9 can do it as well. Again, as I said, if the tournament standard for MK9 is 2/3 rounds, then so be it. But please don't try to tell me it's because of time contraints, because that's not a valid reason as far as I'm concerned.

 

[THTB]

Tekken also plays on 60-second rounds and is basically designed around that time limit. It's not out of the ordinary for rounds to end in like 10-15 seconds. Doesn't SC play on 60-second rounds as well?

There's a HUGE difference between 60 and 90/99. And there's no telling how long rounds in that game can be.

 

[16 Bit]

I prefer 2/3 rounds and 3/5 matches for finals. I like tournaments to be brisk. I've been to plenty that drag on.

 

[Momotaro]

For the new Gentleman's Fighting League of Oklahoma (or GFLO) that we are trying to start, any tournament that we host in OKC will be 2/3 rounds and games, 3/5 games for finals. People are more used to this format nowadays.

SC isn't dead, but you can't deny that interest has declined. I myself have lost interest in the series. Tekken is starting to slow down as well, and its sad to see this man. It all about interest, if there is no interest then the game is dead.

 

[DrDogg]

For the new Gentleman's Fighting League of Oklahoma (or GFLO) that we are trying to start, any tournament that we host in OKC will be 2/3 rounds and games, 3/5 games for finals. People are more used to this format nowadays.

SC isn't dead, but you can't deny that interest has declined. I myself have lost interest in the series. Tekken is starting to slow down as well, and its sad to see this man. It all about interest, if there is no interest then the game is dead.

Tekken is only slowing down in the US. It's still the most popular fighting game pretty much every where else in the world.

 

[MKF30]

Not that I know of... there are some pretty notorious times where someone gets a life lead and then runs away till time runs out...

Ah I see, yeah I hear ya time infinites right? Lame I agree, this is actually one reason why the RUN in UMK3 and MK4 is a GOOD thing, unlike the other MK's people can just run away from you and you can't add "speed" other then MKDC(the 3D MK's were slow as shit) and was a bitch to get to someone at times...

 

[Circus]

Omg... I really hope its not best 2/3. That SUCKS ><
I think the best thing to do would make it best 3/5(three rounds to win). The first round with a new opponent is reserved to seeing their fighting style and adjusting to them. The second is still meh. From the third round on is when the players should know each other. It'd just suck by the time you fully grasp how a player is playing that you can't make a comeback because its best 2/3. I really hope its not like this online as the default...

 

[THTB]

Good players are capable of getting a feel of how one plays within a round. From there, they just pick apart patterns and tendencies.

I played Justin Wong in SSFIV casuals...and it took him maybe the first round to pick me apart. That is generally how top level players operate. If anything, you're just making it harder for yourself because they get more opportunities to completely download you.

Not to mention, you're usually pressed for time even with 2/3. 3/5 can be a nightmare for certain games.

 

[DrDogg]

Now that this has come up again... after the release of the demo I feel there's something new to discuss here.

If meter-building remains as it is in the demo, making matches 3/5 rounds could add a significant amount of meter management strategy to the game. If a match ends in two rounds, it's very likely that only one player ever reached a full meter, and that would've only happened one time. Add a third round and it opens up a lot more possibilities with the meter meta-game.

 

[Lucky Day]

Now that this has come up again... after the release of the demo I feel there's something new to discuss here.

If meter-building remains as it is in the demo, making matches 3/5 rounds could add a significant amount of meter management strategy to the game. If a match ends in two rounds, it's very likely that only one player ever reached a full meter, and that would've only happened one time. Add a third round and it opens up a lot more possibilities with the meter meta-game.

I tend to agree, but we may be forced to wait until after EVO to really implement this. A couple months of seeing how 2/3 rounds go and if the meter management isn't working out or we think it needs a change and we could probably look into changing the standard.

Game looks like it will run pretty fast anyway.

 

[9.95]

This is, of course, providing that NRS allows you to change the amt of default rounds... keep in mind, they left something as simple as changing button config independently of the other player OUT of MKDC....

 

[MKK hanzo]

This is, of course, providing that NRS allows you to change the amt of default rounds... keep in mind, they left something as simple as changing button config independently of the other player OUT of MKDC in the PS3 version....

Fixed!

 

[Lucky Day]

This is, of course, providing that NRS allows you to change the amt of default rounds... keep in mind, they left something as simple as changing button config independently of the other player OUT of MKDC....

Yes, but both button mapping and round options are present in the demo. There's no reason to believe they would create those options in the menu ONLY for the demo.

 

[stickystaines]

Just throwing this out there. Do you think it's viable that tag mode could potentially be a tournament standard rather than 1 on 1? Providing that tag mode proves to be balanced and competitive, it could bring new variables to consider in a match, increasing the player's amount of options (and in turn, help to decrease your opponents options).

 

[9.95]

At least for this tournament season, Mr.Wizard has already said(which we all knew to begin with) that MK9 at EVO will be 1v1. I wouldn't be surprised to see some side 2v2's pop up though.

 

[Tom Brady]

no.. 1 v 1 will stay the feature tournament.

 

[Lucky Day]

Yeah, I don't see any reason why 2v2 would ever become the "standard".

It's a 1v1 game that happens to have a tag mode, not the other way around. People will definitely be playing the tag mode at tourneys, but there's no way it will be the main event.

 

[stickystaines]

Eh, just because the main game is 1 vs 1 doesn't mean we should force ourselves into a hole. As long as 2 vs 2 has some competitiveness and an acceptable level of balance, i see no reason we it couldn't, further down the line, become standard. I mean all it is, is just another character which you can tag in, extend combos too and use assists with. It could prove itself to be more varied than 1 on 1 combat, but it could also prove to prove to be down right daft for competitive play. Time will tell i guess.