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Top 10 and Bottom 5

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
Judging MUs by online is flawed by design.

Offline Raiden is nowhere to be found for a simple reason that on really high level he isn't that good and Joker in good players hand (offline) destroys him like almost any character in the game.

Same with Kabal, who is really crazy offline and the best representation of this was TekkenMaster vs Dragon (Kabal vs Cetrion) at WePlay offline tournament. Sub Zero is a hit and miss character, he can beat any other character if you get lucky with 50/50 and it was already proven that even offline SZ players can catch people like Sonic with his mix, coz in the midst of battle it's really hard to react to that OH unless you're fishing for it/he is obvious with it (the most obvious example is OH into Fblow).
What do you think makes Raiden an online character?
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
What do you think makes Raiden an online character?
He's just not amazing. He has fucked up active hitboxes that wrecks bad active hitboxes like he can press on Jade all day if you aren't amazing at b343 pressure with her but he's full of gaps, has no real amazing game plan, his damage is meh. He's just not good unless there is lag and you can do gimmicky shit.
 
Frost, Sheeva, and Mileena. Ya'll making me sound like a low tier hero.
Ha, I thought we both were :p.

Contrary to people's belief on this site (or any competitive site for that matter) making characters in game where 99% of money comes from casuals balance isn't exactly a top priority.
^This sounds right. I certainly don't think they made her intentionally bad, I think it's more the character, at least as designed, doesn't play the Mortal Kombat 11 style as well. Interestingly, there were "leaks" a year-ish ago saying Mileena had been considered for the game and was rejected because the designers didn't think she'd fit the game's design and playstyle. Whether that leak was true or not, it seems the overall sentiment was.

They saw the huge demand for Mileena, so they saw the opportunity for cash. I promise you they don’t care about how bad Mileena is.
If we do get a proper balance patch down the road, hopefully she does get some adjustments.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
He's just not amazing. He has fucked up active hitboxes that wrecks bad active hitboxes like he can press on Jade all day if you aren't amazing at b343 pressure with her but he's full of gaps, has no real amazing game plan, his damage is meh. He's just not good unless there is lag and you can do gimmicky shit.
He can definitely be played solidly. He's got good mids, great counter-zoning with teleport, great ways out of pressure with static, great corner carry, and very useable zoning. His damage is above 30% every touch, which is definitely not meh. His unbreakable route in TW is on par a lot of characters max one bar damage.

I think you can do well with him without doing weird fake teleport gimmicks and abusing B1 staggers.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
He can definitely be played solidly. He's got good mids, great counter-zoning with teleport, great ways out of pressure with static, great corner carry, and very useable zoning. His damage is above 30% every touch, which is definitely not meh. His unbreakable route in TW is on par a lot of characters max one bar damage.

I think you can do well with him without doing weird fake teleport gimmicks and abusing B1 staggers.
No character is horrible in this game, some are just like, why would you play instead of playing joker lol
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
No character is horrible in this game, some are just like, why would you play instead of playing joker lol
Because if I play Joker I wont be a special snowflake playing an uncommon character.

Honestly though that's this game's biggest flaw. Too many mid/low tier characters are just not worth playing because a high tier does the same thing but better. Shao Kahn is a worse Spawn, Nightwolf is a worse Kano, Scorpion is a worse Kabal, Rain is kind of a worse Joker. The low tiers in SFV are unique and usually worth playing over other characters if you like them.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Because if I play Joker I wont be a special snowflake playing an uncommon character.

Honestly though that's this game's biggest flaw. Too many mid/low tier characters are just not worth playing because a high tier does the same thing but better. Shao Kahn is a worse Spawn, Nightwolf is a worse Kano, Scorpion is a worse Kabal, Rain is kind of a worse Joker. The low tiers in SFV are unique and usually worth playing over other characters if you like them.
That's the deal with the variation system.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
How do you think Dvorah compares to her MKX incarnation?
Same aesthetic and voice, entirely different character from the ground up. The specials may be similar, but their usage is entirely different. As for power..

MKX D'Vorah (Swarm Queen mainly) was top tier for ages and upper end of mid tier after direct nerfs and the universal stamina changes.

MK11 D'Vorah was made one of if not the worst character in the game (at the time) by the day 1 patch and has been trying to claw her way up since then. She's been made ok at best with mediocre buffs here and there, custom variations allowing her to no longer be crippled by her unacceptably garbage variation options, and the poke patch. She's still carried entirely on the back of Strepsiptera. Bottom 5? Nah. Bottom 10? Definitely.
 
No character is horrible in this game, some are just like, why would you play instead of playing joker lol
That's the general impression I've gotten about the game and it's roster overall. The bottom tier isn't Mortal Kombat (2011) levels of bottom tier.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
Coming in to expand my list a little to a full bottom 10. This time, all are in order of #1 worst to #10 based on my opinion.

Bottom 10
Rambo
Frost
Mileena
Shao Kahn
Sheeva
Skarlet
Kitana
Rain
D'Vorah
Terminator

Robocop, Kung Lao, Baraka, Sindel, and Scorpion are just outside the bottom 10.

EDIT: forgot fuckin D'Vorah
 
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Pizza

Thrill Kill
Coming in to expand my list a little to a full bottom 10. This time, all are in order of #1 worst to #10 based on my opinion.

Bottom 10
Rambo
Frost
Mileena
Shao Kahn
Sheeva
Skarlet
Kitana
Rain
Terminator
Robocop

Kung Lao, Baraka, Sindel, and Scorpion are just outside the bottom 10.

Am I understanding this right? Skarlet worse than Kitana, Terminator and Robocop? :confused:
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
Am I understanding this right? Skarlet worse than Kitana, Terminator and Robocop? :confused:
Ya. Also, my dumb ass completely forgot to include my own main. List updated with D'Vorah.

As for Skarlet, she has to put a ridiculous amount of work in to make the smallest amount of progress happen. Her zoning is decent but entirely outclassed by the likes of Shang and Cetrion. She also has to either have shit staggers or take risks every time she's up close. I just dont see a purpose in her at the moment.
 
Ordered

Top 10
-Cetrion
-Joker
-Fujin
-Jacqui
-Subzero
-Liu
-Kabal
-Noob saibot
-Spawn
-Jade

Bottom 5
-sheeva
-shaokahn
-mileena
-frost
-Rambo
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Offline Raiden is nowhere to be found for a simple reason that on really high level he isn't that good and Joker in good players hand (offline) destroys him like almost any character in the game.
I'm going to come in here and say that Raiden actually beats Joker.

He can definitely be played solidly. He's got good mids, great counter-zoning with teleport, great ways out of pressure with static, great corner carry, and very useable zoning. His damage is above 30% every touch, which is definitely not meh. His unbreakable route in TW is on par a lot of characters max one bar damage.

I think you can do well with him without doing weird fake teleport gimmicks and abusing B1 staggers.
I think this is a great summary of what Raiden can do right now. He an extremely solid character that actually goes toe-to-toe with most of the top tiers in this game. The only caveat is you have to play him in a very specific way (ie lame and extremely safe) in order to make MUs become even or to let you win.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Raiden's got a ton of stuff going for him with a varied tool set and multiple viable custom moves. Just F3
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
I don't understand why everyone places Jade in the top ten. Yes, she does well against most of the cast but she isn't top 10 material. She sits right outside it to be honest.
 
My bottom 5:
Frost: her move set is wonky and terrible on whiff. Bad gimmicky zoning. Her damage is the worst in the game. Her custom moves don't offer much.
Sheeva: stomp is gone, dragon stance is easier to blow up. Now all she got left is t rex arms and unsafe mix.
Skarlet: her strings have more holes that a beehive. Literally can't open people up without risking her life.
Mileena and Rambo: nuf said. I don't see how they can play the game at all. Mileena is released as an incomplete character, and we are forced to use all 3 ability to barely complete her moveset, without any room to be versatile. Why?
 

Pizza

Thrill Kill
Skarlet buttons up close are terrible.
No 11f mid
canceling specials into tentacle loses her turn
no anti-air


she is very hard to play.
Okay, I can see that.

But Kitana?

It may just be me, but I think Kitana is very clunky and limited. It's been downhill from her after MK9, and now I just cannot play her anymore.
 
I don't understand why everyone places Jade in the top ten. Yes, she does well against most of the cast but she isn't top 10 material. She sits right outside it to be honest.
Her only two bad matchups are Shang and Kotal and almost no one plays them especially in tournaments. And she's broken in ultimate because of mixups. OS'ing b3434/b343-delia/b343-ex delia is hard, 8-9fr quick hop/throw/delia/poke-delia/poke-ex delia is super dumb online. Some characters can only punish f21 after FB, but then you can't fuzzy f21/f2-delia. And so on.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
I'm going to come in here and say that Raiden actually beats Joker.


I think this is a great summary of what Raiden can do right now. He an extremely solid character that actually goes toe-to-toe with most of the top tiers in this game. The only caveat is you have to play him in a very specific way (ie lame and extremely safe) in order to make MUs become even or to let you win.
I'm not gonna argue this much coz i dont play Raiden but i go here by Sonic word which said Joker destroys Raiden.

I don't know where you've been for the last year, but if anything, it's shown that online is how everything should be judged.

Offline is the weird exception.
I'm a really nice person but mate that's the dumbest thing i've read in the past year.
 
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