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Top 10 and Bottom 5

Juxtapose

Juxtapose

Master
Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate has been out for six months today. We just got a small balance patch last week, but as you all know overall balance patching has been slim through this version of the game's life.

I'm curious who everyone sees as the Top 10 characters and the Bottom 5 (doesn't have to be in order)? I don't play the game competitively, but from casually watching the Pro Kompetition, it looks like Top 10 may be:

  • Joker
  • Scorpion
  • Noob Saibot
  • Jacqui Briggs
  • Sub-Zero
  • Kano
  • Jade
  • Kotal Kahn
  • Sindel
  • Cetrion
  • Fujin
For Bottom 5, the general impression I get is:

  • Shao Kahn (though that may have changed with the latest patch)
  • Raiden
  • Robocop
  • Rambo
  • Kollector
 
DixieFlatline78

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
Hard disagrees on Raiden and Kollector. I main Raiden and he's very good now.

Top 10:
Joker
Jacqui
Cetrion
Liu Kang
Fujin
Kano
Geras
Jade
Kabal
Sub Zero

Bottom Five:
Shao Kahn
Mileena
Rambo
Robocop
Sheeva(?)

Also I'd categorize Mileena as Bottom One. Idk what she even does at this point. Everyone else has something going for them but outside of risky counter-zoning and a pretty decent projectile I fail to see what sets her apart from the rest of the cast.

Robo would be better if he didn't have so many hitbox issues. Shao Kahn is sick and I think people are afraid to go full unga, but he has a lot of shortcomings. Rambo is cool and has a lot of potential but also a lot of bad matchups. Sheeva really did get gutted and I think a lot of her issues are going to come to the forefront now.
 
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DoDaMuSiC

DoDaMuSiC

Ermac ftw
Imo in order:
Top 10:
1 - Cetrion
2 - Jacqui
3 - Liu
4 - Joker
5 - Fujin
6 - Kabal
7 - Jade
8 - Kano
9 - Noob
10 - Kotal

Bottom 5:
5 - Sheeva
4 - Frost
3 - Shao Kahn
2 - Mileena
1 - Rambo
 
Arqwart

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
Bolded character names are ones I think are objectively top 10 / bottom 5. I can't see any arguments for them not being in the top or bottom respectively.

Top 10
Cetrion
Joker
Liu
Jacqui
Fujin
Kabal
Johnny Cage
Cassie
Sub-Zero
Jade

Bottom 5
Rambo
Frost
Mileena
Shao Kahn
Sheeva

Notable Exclusions
Sonya: I really do not agree with the "Sonya bottom 5" narrative a lot of players (pros mainly) are pushing. Her damage output is insane even off small hit confirms, her safety is pretty good if you don't over commit, her projectile is amazing, her options are powerful at all ranges, and she has decent cancels. I don't think she's amazing by any means, but I can't see her in the bottom 5 at all. I honestly don't even see her as bottom 10.
Sindel: another character that many pros dump into bottom 5 or just outside of it. She shuts down anyone that hasn't very specifically labbed the matchup extensively, making her an efficient scrub killer. However, she also has the safety, damage, options, cancels, and KBs to hold her own in high end matches too. Definitely not bottom 5 by any means imo.
Robocop: I didn't see him as bottom 5 after Flamethrower / Command Grab combo was unlocked, let alone now with the higher health and 121 buff. Solid mid or lower end of mid tier. Maybe the highest end of bottom 10 at worst.
Kano: JUST outside the top 10 in my opinion. I could definitely see arguments for him taking one of the spots I gave to Cassie, Sub, or Jade.
Noob Saibot: solid upper end of mid tier and nothing more. Just a damn good MK11 character, but he doesn't stand out enough like the top 10 to make it.
Kotal Kahn: same as Noob, but much more matchup dependent. Has very notable advantage in some matchups but has very notable disadvantage in others.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
RoboCop's big issue is he's a one-trick pony. If the opponent doesn't have an answer for Low Shot, then RoboCop gets to do his thing. But too many characters in this game just utterly shut down his zoning, and then he has no other tools or strategies to fall back on.

So, as far as just baseless tier lists are concerned, I'm not sure where I would put him, but it would be pretty low. But as far as tournament viability is concerned, I'd put him in bottom 5 for sure. He's got that Oceana win, but I'd consider that a major fluke, and he was only used in the final set. RoboCop is a character who loses at the character-select screen due to how potently he can be counterpicked.
 
Y

YellowOrWhite

Noob
Ordered and relative to online play but mostly based on how many losing match-ups each one has.

Top 10
Jacqui (no losing mu)
Cetrion (no losing mu)
Sub-Zero (online maybe loses to Jade)
Fujin (maybe loses to Cetrion)
Kabal (loses to Shang Tsung)
Noob (loses to Shang Tsung, ???)
Jade (loses to Shang Tsung, Kotal)
Joker (loses to Sub-Zero, Jade, Raiden, maybe Kitana, maybe Robo haven't played this mu after the patch)
Liu Kang (loses to Cetrion, Jacqui, Johnny, maybe Kitana)
Kano (loses to Joker, Jacqui, ???)

Bottom 5
Mileena
Shao Kahn
Sheeva
no idea
no idea
 
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Juxtapose

Juxtapose

Master
Poor Mileena. I joked that if they actually added her to the game, watch her be trash tier. Looks like my joke wasn't.
 
Arqwart

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
xKhaoTik said:
I’m convinced NRS purposely made Mileena trash. Y’all cried for her and threw the money at the screen. You get what you ask for
NRS just sitting back laughing
Click to expand...
Seems rather pointless for developers to intentionally make a character trash unless they are very specifically a joke character. I feel the main issue is that the development time that went into the Ultimate trio (Rambo, Rain, and Mileena) was nonexistent. All 3 of them are bottom 10 characters, 2 of which are in the bottom 5 if not bottom 1/2 depending on who you ask. What in the hell happened at NRS in the making of those 3?
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
Arqwart said:
Seems rather pointless for developers to intentionally make a character trash unless they are very specifically a joke character. I feel the main issue is that the development time that went into the Ultimate trio (Rambo, Rain, and Mileena) was nonexistent. All 3 of them are bottom 10 characters, 2 of which are in the bottom 5 if not bottom 1/2 depending on who you ask. What in the hell happened at NRS in the making of those 3?
Click to expand...
Contrary to people's belief on this site (or any competitive site for that matter) making characters in game where 99% of money comes from casuals balance isn't exactly a top priority.
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Arqwart said:
Seems rather pointless for developers to intentionally make a character trash unless they are very specifically a joke character. I feel the main issue is that the development time that went into the Ultimate trio (Rambo, Rain, and Mileena) was nonexistent. All 3 of them are bottom 10 characters, 2 of which are in the bottom 5 if not bottom 1/2 depending on who you ask. What in the hell happened at NRS in the making of those 3?
Click to expand...
You gotta understand NRS is a company. They saw the huge demand for Mileena, so they saw the opportunity for cash. I promise you they don’t care about how bad Mileena is. They got their money and they’re good.
 
DoDaMuSiC

DoDaMuSiC

Ermac ftw
YellowOrWhite said:
Ordered and relative to online play but mostly based on how many losing match-ups each one has.

Top 10
Jacqui (no losing mu)
Cetrion (no losing mu)
Sub-Zero (online maybe loses to Jade)
Fujin (maybe loses to Cetrion)
Kabal (loses to Shang Tsung)
Noob (loses to Shang Tsung, ???)
Jade (loses to Shang Tsung, Kotal)
Joker (loses to Sub-Zero, Jade, Raiden, maybe Kitana, maybe Robo haven't played this mu after the patch)
Liu Kang (loses to Cetrion, Jacqui, Johnny, maybe Kitana)
Kano (loses to Joker, Jacqui, ???)

Bottom 5
Mileena
Shao Kahn
Sheeva
no idea
no idea
Click to expand...
Sub loses a lot more matchups other than jade
Fujin doesn’t lose to cetrion, he actually has the edge on that mu, its still a 5-5 but he still gives her trouble
Joker doesn’t lose to anyone other than Cetrion and maybe Spawn
Liu doesn’t lose to johnny since like the second patch of this game where they removed all of his whiffing issues against johnny
 
T

theotherguy

Kombatant
There's a big difference between this:
xKhaoTik said:
I’m convinced NRS purposely made Mileena trash.
Click to expand...
And this:
xKhaoTik said:
I promise you they don’t care about how bad Mileena is.
Click to expand...
They may not care how bad she plays, but saying they went out of their way to intentionally make her trash is another thing altogether.

Then again it could be Boon trolling the million souls crying for her return.
 
Y

YellowOrWhite

Noob
DoDaMuSiC said:
Sub loses a lot more matchups other than jade
Fujin doesn’t lose to cetrion, he actually has the edge on that mu, its still a 5-5 but he still gives her trouble
Joker doesn’t lose to anyone other than Cetrion and maybe Spawn
Liu doesn’t lose to johnny since like the second patch of this game where they removed all of his whiffing issues against johnny
Click to expand...
What are Sub losing match-ups online?

Maybe I play bad Fujin's then.

Joker definitely loses to Sub and Raiden. Sub is his worst matchup lol and there is no way to catch zoning Raiden. Cetrion is more like Jade and Kitana you have to work, it were 4.5-5.5 before the patch but I think some of them are 4-6 now. And Spawn only beats him if you play without low projectile.

My bad about Liu then, I don't play him, but he feels easy with Johnny.
 
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Szkarad

Szkarad

( • )( • )ԅ(≖⌣≖ԅ)
I disagree with Raiden and Robocop. They have their issues and should get some love in patches but Raiden just has a lot of options for every range so he's good at exploiting the weaknesses of his opponents - constantly be on top of the zoners thanks to the teleport for example, or try to constantly keep the more close-up characters at range thanks to his good footsie tools and great walk away speed. His main issue is just the lack of safety which could be fixed easily. Like, maybe make the far teleport recovery better by 5f and voila - he's safe against the entire cast. Wish NRS would do this because he is one of the most fun kharacters in the game.
Robo on the other hand I've tried playing for a couple of last nights (I used the OCP charge + low shot + command grab as my loadout) and he is decent as long as the enemy doesn't have exceptional antizoning. He lacks damage, yes. But has decent zoning and can mix opponents up close with F3 vs command grab. Played a couple of rounds against a decent sub-zero with enhanced iceball and it was extremely difficult though as he had no trouble rushing in on me
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
Immortal said:
Anybody who thinks Joker isn't top 3 (and it's a coin toss up between him and Cetrion for top 1) must be playing another game. ;)

Kabal and Sub-Zero are also in top 5 discussion for sure.
Click to expand...
Agree with the sub and kabal for sure surprised more people not mentioning them. As far as Joker goes...bro his hp is so low now. A robocop killed me in 2 combos yesterday, pls buff.:joker:
 
B

Barakall

Apprentice
Mileena was a rushed character in terms of development and design. Probably all 3 of that pack. It’s amazing they actually made Rain really good. The only worthy one in the pack anyway. It’s why I felt it was the end of future KPs.
 
Immortal

Immortal

Blind justice....
YellowOrWhite said:
What are Sub losing match-ups online?

Maybe I play bad Fujin's then.

Joker definitely loses to Sub and Raiden. Sub is his worst matchup lol and there is no way to catch zoning Raiden. Cetrion is more like Jade and Kitana you have to work, it were 4.5-5.5 before the patch but I think some of them are 4-6 now. And Spawn only beats him if you play without low projectile.

My bad about Liu then, I don't play him, but he feels easy with Johnny.
Click to expand...
Judging MUs by online is flawed by design.

Offline Raiden is nowhere to be found for a simple reason that on really high level he isn't that good and Joker in good players hand (offline) destroys him like almost any character in the game.

Same with Kabal, who is really crazy offline and the best representation of this was TekkenMaster vs Dragon (Kabal vs Cetrion) at WePlay offline tournament. Sub Zero is a hit and miss character, he can beat any other character if you get lucky with 50/50 and it was already proven that even offline SZ players can catch people like Sonic with his mix, coz in the midst of battle it's really hard to react to that OH unless you're fishing for it/he is obvious with it (the most obvious example is OH into Fblow).
 
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