[Tier List] Pig of The Hut Official Living Tier List

[M2Dave]

You think that you outrange B2/DB2 mixed with smart zoning from liu?

Unlike Kano's b+1, b+2, b+2,3, and d+4, those two moves have horrendous recovery when whiffed. They are easily punishable by neutral jump punch or back walk b+2,3 + combo.

 

[shinshistu]

What tools makes Raiden take the number one spot? Just curious.

 

[Rude]

Bad Cybernetic Kano. Definitely. But not any very good ones. I highly doubt Cybernetic Kano loses to any character who has average footsies and 50/50 mix ups.

Kano is high mid tier.

Jacqui is top 10.

I don't necessarily agree. Liu can counterzone just fine, for one thing. The knife/fireball trade is not in Kano's favor at all. On top of that, Kano does not have a good punish for flying kick. B1 doesn't work, standing jab doesn't work, up ball doesn't work.

EDIT: I think i was mistaken with this part. I think it's the flipkick he can cancel into, not bicycle kick. Disregard. He can cancel that into MB Bicycle Kick which is +2 on block. The fireball cancel pressure has strings that it can be done off of to make it uninterruptable and each repetition pushes you back.

Kang's d3 has low profiling properties that can cause his b1, a mid, to whiff.

It's true that his overhead only causes a knockdown, so that isn't too bad. But he can throw, which is a viable mix up once you're conditioned to try and duck the throw for a punish, he can do his low string instead.

It's not an easy match up.

 

[Qwark28]

Unlike Kano's b+1, b+2, b+2,3, and d+4, those two moves have horrendous recovery when whiffed. They are easily punishable by neutral jump punch or back walk b+2,3 + combo.

F3 has 23f of recovery and dragon fist is incredibly difficult to whiff as it hits from almost 3/4 of the screen.

 

[Phosferrax]

Knives recover much faster than fireballs and Kano's has better range than Liu in B2 and d4. Kano has airball to bypass zoning and get the advantage.

 

[Rude]

Knives recover much faster than fireballs and Kano's has better range than Liu in B2 and d4. Kano has airball to bypass zoning and get the advantage.

Airball isn't nearly as consistent as you'd like it to be for that. Knives may recover faster, but in a trade situation, Kang's fireballs do more damage. So he can block a knife and perform a reversal fireball to trade with the next knife.

Kano's b23 string is great, but it doesn't have the best priority. You can hit him out of it.

 

[Phosferrax]

I don't necessarily agree. Liu can counterzone just fine, for one thing. The knife/fireball trade is not in Kano's favor at all. On top of that, Kano does not have a good punish for flying kick. B1 doesn't work, standing jab doesn't work, up ball doesn't work.

He can cancel that into MB Bicycle Kick which is +2 on block. The fireball cancel pressure has strings that it can be done off of to make it uninterruptable and each repetition pushes you back.

Kang's d3 has low profiling properties that can cause his b1, a mid, to whiff.

It's true that his overhead only causes a knockdown, so that isn't too bad. But he can throw, which is a viable mix up once you're conditioned to try and duck the throw for a punish, he can do his low string instead.

It's not an easy match up.

But all Cyber has to do is get zoning advantage and Liu can't win any trades with Kano using Ex knives. Kano's d4, is so annoying for Liu and when is he going to get a chance to do flying kick really when being pelted with knives?

 

[Rude]

But all Cyber has to do is get zoning advantage and Liu can't win any trades with Kano using Ex knives. Kano's d4, is so annoying for Liu and when is he going to get a chance to do flying kick really when being pelted with knives?

He can block a knife and perform a reversal. The damage is in his favor.

It does depend on who gets started first somewhat, but the point is that Liu has tools to handle knives better than some.

Kano won't always have the meter for ex knives. Granted that it's done on a read, Liu can just armor through single knives. Kano can MB that to get through the armor, but that's where your meta comes in.

It's only my opinion, but the fact that Liu doesn't have to burn meter to keep up in counterzoning is a big deal, because Kano does.

The fact that Kano needs to burn meter to keep up and regain zoning advantage is telling.

Now to be clear, i don't think its 8-2 or 7-3 or anything insurmountable, but i do not think Kano wins.

 

[Phosferrax]

He can block a knife and perform a reversal. The damage is in his favor.

It does depend on who gets started first somewhat, but the point is that Liu has tools to handle knives better than some.

Kano won't always have the meter for ex knives. Granted that it's done on a read, Liu can just armor through single knives. Kano can MB that to get through the armor, but that's where your meta comes in.

It's only my opinion, but the fact that Liu doesn't have to burn meter to keep up in counterzoning is a big deal, because Kano does.

The fact that Kano needs to burn meter to keep up and regain zoning advantage is telling.

Now to be clear, i don't think its 8-2 or 7-3 or anything insurmountable, but i do not think Kano wins.

Nor do not I think he wins either. Probably even mu. Kano's backdash is so good for getting out of lius FBRC pressure aswell.

 

[Rude]

Nor do not I think he wins either. Probably even mu. Kano's backdash is so good for getting out of lius FBRC pressure aswell.

If done off certain strings(i can't remember the notation), you can't backdash. Or use armor. Or poke. I think it's off two hits of his three hitting string(again, i don't know the notation), but the point is that Liu has variants of his fireball pressure that you cannot hit a button after.

The fireball pressure does chip and pushes you toward the corner. During which you can throw or go for his overhead. Now i know his overhead is only a knockdown, but even soft knockdowns matter with how this game's wake up system works.

 

[Phosferrax]

If done off certain strings(i can't remember the notation), you can't backdash. Or use armor. Or poke. I think it's off two hits of his three hitting string(again, i don't know the notation), but the point is that Liu has variants of his fireball pressure that you cannot hit a button after.

The fireball pressure does chip and pushes you toward the corner. During which you can throw or go for his overhead. Now i know his overhead is only a knockdown, but even soft knockdowns matter with how this game's wake up system works.

F213 fbrc is the only one that the follow up can't be backdashed.

 

[Rude]

F213 fbrc is the only one that the follow up can't be backdashed.

Right. The point is, when he's doing that all you can do is wait. Which is where the conditioning comes in.

 

[Phosferrax]

Right. The point is, when he's doing that all you can do is wait. Which is where the conditioning comes in.

That's every mu though and the fact that he can avoid the follow ups to the more useful ones are important.

 

[Rude]

That's every mu though and the fact that he can avoid the follow ups to the more useful ones are important.

I can see that. I'm not hard set on it being a losing match up, but right now i think it is. Why do you call it even?

 

[Phosferrax]

I can see that. I'm not hard set on it being a losing match up, but right now i think it is. Why do you call it even?

Footsies are even, zoning is possibly in Kano's favour whilst up close is in Liu's favor.

 

[Metzos]

Dvorah has a 50/50 off any f112 wasp cancel which is +16. So off of a 12 frame safe forward advancing move she has a 50/50.

I meant combo wise. I know she a low but that deals what, 17% dmg?

 

[Zoidberg747]

I meant combo wise. I know she a low but that deals what, 17% dmg?

No it deals 30-40% like the f22 cancels

B1 Df1 FF Block 212 vortex f34 b12 air throw does between 30-35% meterless. Can replace the b1 with f22 which is where you get the 50/50.

That isnt even considering the fact that she wins almost all projectile trades, can convert off of almost anything, and can stuff a lot of wakeups(or avoid them with U3).

The only reason she isnt doing well in tournaments is Dvorah players dont have the cancels down 100%. She has one of the best toolsets in the entire game easily.

 

[learis1]

Oh man, definitely gonna have to rethink Kotal and Takeda after watching Combo Breaker.

 

[BLACKRENEGADE]

So how's the list standing now?

 

[Take$$$]

No it deals 30-40% like the f22 cancels

B1 Df1 FF Block 212 vortex f34 b12 air throw does between 30-35% meterless. Can replace the b1 with f22 which is where you get the 50/50.

That isnt even considering the fact that she wins almost all projectile trades, can convert off of almost anything, and can stuff a lot of wakeups(or avoid them with U3).

The only reason she isnt doing well in tournaments is Dvorah players dont have the cancels down 100%. She has one of the best toolsets in the entire game easily.

I don't think its the cancels themselves, f22 and b1 are easy enough to do in a match where you're playing well. It's doing them from from f112 fast enough where they can't reversal so you have enough stamina to do f22/b1 wcs. So hard to do consistently even in practice.

 

[IrishMantis]

With Kotal wining 2 Locals coming third at a major and having 3(I think) place top 32 has proved to count for something

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

Ok this definitely made me re think my tier list lmfao, wow what's a tournament, and an HUGE eye opener in general!

 

[TAS_DASH]

But like, even with the option select, she loses her mixup game if you commit to them.

Like 21 os ball makes you lose out on the 2 or 2 ex roll mixup.

I think her os is great on b12 and general string Enders, but committing to them on her mixup strings actually hurts her and b12 is hella easy to confirm anyways.

I agree she has options but I still think she is lower. She is still YOLO on those mix ups. The really conformable. OS does not change her slow normals. she gets outpoked by a lot of the higher characters in neutral. Neutral defines tier list more than damage and a mix up. Her neutral isn't good. Every special move is YOLO. Just my opinion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are they not patching OS's out. And I do understand that this list is "living"

 

[Cerebru]

All? And yes after talking w every top player this weekend they all agree w me

Bro play better. Your a great player. There is something your over looking.

 

[JDE]

I don't think a lot of people realize how good Raiden is at building meter, either. In thunder god, he can put a lot of his strings on your hit & his meter is quick to fill. It's not like how Ermac does, but when you guard against him, his lighting bolts are steady building his meter. The character is good no matter how you look at it.