This game is ridiculously balanced

[Chaosphere]

You can only really talk honestly about matchups if you're referring to two people that are both familiar with the matchup. Otherwise, anyone stands a chance of losing a set to almost any character.

I dunno. I think that is the player's fault. Jeremiah didn't lose at the select screen. He chose one of the worst characters against one of the best characters and won in tournament. That's my only point.

 

[STORMBEARDFIREHAMMER]

cant wait till we are discussing how many 10-0 matchups zod has... this game isn't that balanced, and down the road people are going to realize how broken it is... and it has the same problems as mk (i like this game a lot, jts quite the mistress, its like crack, its awesome but it can a be a bitch too, not that i have ever had crack), rushdown zoning(freddy kenshi zod), characters that do whatever the ufck they want when they want and control almost every matchup (mmh, kabal, ), characters you can't get in on (aquaman, zod, freddy kenshi), characters who have 1 really cheap mb move that makes them good (flash, sonya)... batgirl is like smoke...

took me a a little while to realize it but now i agree with these top 3

ur absolutely right about the top 3... none of the other characters are even going to matter except maybe batgirl, flash, wonder woman, supes outside of that trio you just named... but aqua puts his d in almost all of those characters

well i guess it has a more balanced future then mk, we will see though

 

[STORMBEARDFIREHAMMER]

I think your knowledge is just outdated; I'm not going to post every single example, but it's pretty well established by now.

(middle match)

Also have you considered why top Lao players never play Lao against top Kitanas anymore? And rarely against Cages

this was so long ago and it was when pl was behind in the meta... kung lao cage is very close to even

 

[GrandMasterson]

I remember everyone on TYM saying MK9 was pretty balanced 6 months after release. That was just after the last patch in September 2011 too.

Just wait.

 

[Skkra]

It's way too early to say that this game is balanced. If people are still playing this game seriously in about 12-16 more MONTHS, we can talk about overall balance then. Particularly with the recently arrival of the latest patch, we really don't know anything. Fleshing out a game takes YEARS sometimes.

 

[TheSureFireGamer]

And don't get me started on the bottom tier for MK:9. Gosh, they were terrible. Such complete wastes of space that you would turn the most innocent man into a ravaging salty demon with the sole purpose of uncovering the reason behind such character's uselessness. The bottom tier in this game? They still look pretty good to me and actually have a chance in tournament.

*Remembers playing Sheeva in MK9.*

Thank Boon that Grapplers are actually viable in this game.

 

[spitefulsnake]

offline sure it's not bad.... online however....

 

[Zoidberg747]

It's way too early to say that this game is balanced. If people are still playing this game seriously in about 12-16 more MONTHS, we can talk about overall balance then. Particularly with the recently arrival of the latest patch, we really don't know anything. Fleshing out a game takes YEARS sometimes.

We also dont know its imbalanced.

People need to chill out and just play the game.

 

[zaf]

NEC looked really balanced

Discuss

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

NEC looked really balanced

Discuss

NEC was really balanced

Discussion over

 

[EarthRyno]

NEC was really balanced

Discussion over

Balanced really was NEC

Over the discussion is

 

[Eddy Wang]

Balanced really was NEC

Over the discussion is

Really was Balanced NEC

Is over the discussion

 

[shaowebb]

Really was Balanced NEC

Is over the discussion

Is was balanced NEC over discussion the really.

 

[Espio]

Such NEC
Much Balance
Wow

 

[Briggs8417]

No, just no. The game overall has decent balance, but it has some characters that need a lot of work. That's not really what's wrong with the game though lol.

 

[High Plains Drifter]

checkout my post NEC tier list
http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/injustice/index.html?tc=ya0-trmr3jnw6hos3ic77uou5vda55m06hou7mhu9wk037gnarou9gmx9hf9brgv72db71f672lj8dib63f45ik663kl53jp8uk872ik72oa4pmf4pb18znv2tmw7q-bkg-naDrifter

 

[4x4lo8o]

I still don't think this games balance is particularly good. NEC was great, but we still saw Superman in Grand Finals and I doubt Hawkgirl's ever going to win another major.

 

[ApocaLips]

I still don't think this games balance is particularly good. NEC was great, but we still saw Superman in Grand Finals and I doubt Hawkgirl's ever going to win another major.

What the fuck? You think that just because Superman was anywhere in the top 8, Injustice still isn't balanced?

Tyrant, Theo, Slayer and KDZ all invested a ton of time into Superman. Even if he was in the bottom half, you'd expect them to use him at least as an alt in a major this big this soon after the patch. Tyrant only used him as a backup for one matchup, vs. Hawkgirl, which clearly disfavors Grundy.

You're not looking for balance if you're calling imbalance based on Superman still being viable. You either want a complete tier flip or you're out for blood against Superman specifically. Neither creates balance.

And PPJ has been doing amazingly with Hawkgirl for a long time, as has Trepound. This is literally the first major where they got to show off their Hawkgirls, and one of them FUCKING WON THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT. Your claim that Hawkgirl will never win again is completely baseless. And ironically, Hawkgirl failing to win another major would be indicative of balance, not lack of balance.

 

[4x4lo8o]

What the fuck? You think that just because Superman was anywhere in the top 8, Injustice still isn't balanced?

Tyrant, Theo, Slayer and KDZ all invested a ton of time into Superman. Even if he was in the bottom half, you'd expect them to use him at least as an alt in a major this big. Tyrant only used him as a backup for one matchup, vs. Hawkgirl, which clearly disfavors Grundy.

You're not looking for balance if you're calling imbalance based on Superman still being viable. You either want a complete tier flip or you're out for blood against Superman specifically. Neither creates balance.

And PPJ has been doing amazingly with Hawkgirl for a long time, as has Trepound. This is literally the first major where they got to show off their Hawkgirls, and one of them FUCKING WON THE WHOLE TOURNAMENT. Your claim that Hawkgirl will never win again is completely baseless. And ironically, Hawkgirl failing to win another major would be indicative of balance, not lack of balance.

What's your problem?
I didn't claim that the game is unbalanced simply because Superman made an appearance in top 8 nor did I make a strong claim that Hawkgirl will 'never win again'

I simply stated my opinion on balance and responded to the plethora of people who for some reason think NEC shows that the game is balanced(I don't think the results support that, and even they did a single tournament isn't good evidence for or against game balance). The Hawkgirl - Grundy match up is so bad that Tyrant in Grand Finals didn't even try to use Grundy, he had to counter pick with a character that he hates playing. That's not indicative of good balance.
The character he tried counter picking also happened to be a character that has shown up in Grand Finals of all the biggest tournaments since this game has come out, a character that 9-1'd my character prepatch, a character that single handedly ruined the games hype and image at evo, a character that was supposed to have been nerfed into the ground.
Yeah, seeing that character in Grand Finals again(and from 2 people in top 8, and 4 in top 16) causes me some worry about the games balance long term.

As far as Hawkgirl, she has some really bad match ups. PPJ got pretty lucky in that regards(I'm not saying his bracket was free, that he didn't play anyone good, or attempting to take anything away from him, just that he got fairly lucky as far as Hawkgirls match ups go) and we still saw some counterpicking from him. Despite that I didn't make an absolute claim that Hawkgirl's 'never going to win anything' again, I said that I don't think it's likely we'll see a Hawkgirl player win another major of that size. If we do it'll probably be with a lot of counterpicking, more than PPJ had to do at NEC. And my thought that Hawkgirl probably won't win another major was an indicator of somewhat poor balance, because it reflected how unlikely it was that Hawkgirl could win a major in the first place and the idea that's it's a one time thing that's probably more likely a fluke explained by luck and an exceptional player than real evidence that the character's going to be viable later in the games life.

 

[McTease]

There will always be bad match-ups in a fighting game, it's based purely on design.

Especially considering that Injustice has more than 30 characters; it's ridiculous to think there wouldn't be terrible match-ups.

 

[Fromundaman]

What's your problem?
I didn't claim that the game is unbalanced simply because Superman made an appearance in top 8 nor did I make a strong claim that Hawkgirl will 'never win again'

*Proceeds to write 2 more paragraphs stating that idea explicitly*



That said did you watch the whole tournament? Tyrant tried Grundy in Winners finals and only switched because it was a terrible matchup. Now yes, it was to Superman, but that's just because that's the other character he plays at high level, not that it was the optimal counterpick for Hawkgirl.

Secondly. Grundy ran through a LOT of other characters to get to second, including Superman. In fact I know Raven, Grundy and Hawkgirl all ended up playing against and beating Superman on stream. That doesn't sound like "Supes is still breaking game balance" to me.

Finally, why are you saying that picking Supes against HG, which isn't even a particularly good MU (Not bad but not a hard CP by a long shot) is a problem but don't bring up the fact that Ducky had to fight his way through Doomsday and Bane as Raven? Those were about as bad of matchups as HG/Grundy.
Bad matchups will always be a part of games and if every character has a few, that's actually very indicative of balance; each character has a few people to keep them in check.



EDIT: And on the subject of CPing, PPJ also played Lex and Zatanna. Does that make the game less balanced because he used other characters and not exclusively HG? No, of course not, so why is Tyrant doing the same thing a sign of poor balance? How is a top 8 with 11 different characters a sign of poor balance, especially when it happens on the first major to occur after the patch meant to fix the game's balance? How is this a negative sign?

 

[4x4lo8o]

*Proceeds to write 2 more paragraphs stating that idea explicitly*

Superman wasn't only in GFs(how many matches did Superman win on stream?) and the idea that I saw Superman on the screen during GFs and used that as my sole determining factor in thinking the game has poor balance is a joke. I also don't think I need the explain the difference between 'I don't think Hawkgirl likely to win another major' and 'Hawkgirl will never win'. Plus both of those were in response to the posts above mine about NEC proving how balanced the game is. It was never any attempt to sum up my opinions about balance in the game.


Yes, I watched the whole tournament. I'm gonna go ahead and say again that I don't think looking at any one particular tournament has much value in deciding or discussing game balance, but Grundy-Hawkgirl being a bad enough match up that Tyrant felt like he had to switch is something that I would say points to poor game balance. Especially since Tyrant has shown that he's someone who will try to play through bad match ups as often as possible. The fact that Superman isn't a hard counterpick to Hawkgirl isn't particularly important. It also isn't an accident that the other character that Tyrant plays at a high level is one that we've seen in GF's of big tournaments before.

I loved the diversity we got to see in this top 8, but in a year from now when the tier list has leveled out and doesn't look so great no one is going to be arguing about how the game is ridiculously balanced because top 8 at NEC 14 had eleven characters in it

 

[4x4lo8o]

EDIT: And on the subject of CPing, PPJ also played Lex and Zatanna. Does that make the game less balanced because he used other characters and not exclusively HG? No, of course not, so why is Tyrant doing the same thing a sign of poor balance? How is a top 8 with 11 different characters a sign of poor balance, especially when it happens on the first major to occur after the patch meant to fix the game's balance? How is this a negative sign?

When PPJ played GRR he didn't even try to use Hawkgirl. He went straight to a counter pick. And when that counterpick lost he went straight to ANOTHER counter pick.
Have you ever been counterpicked like that in a tournament? It doesn't make you feel good about the game.

I would have liked to have seen PPJ at least try Hawkgirl against Bane. I would have liked to have seen Tyrant go a full set with Grundy. Overcoming a bad match up is the definition of hype. Unfortunately it looks like this game might have match ups bad enough that high level players don't even want to try

 

[16 Bit]

When PPJ played GRR he didn't even try to use Hawkgirl. He went straight to a counter pick. And when that counterpick lost he went straight to ANOTHER counter pick.
Have you ever been counterpicked like that in a tournament? It doesn't make you feel good about the game.

I would have liked to have seen PPJ at least try Hawkgirl against Bane. I would have liked to have seen Tyrant go a full set with Grundy. Overcoming a bad match up is the definition of hype. Unfortunately it looks like this game might have match ups bad enough that high level players don't even want to try

This isn't a good example though. PPJ does use Hawkgirl against Bane. He uses her against Max at our weeklies sometimes. He also uses Lex, Zatanna and even Shazam. Like many match ups who he uses depends on his mood at the time. For NEC he was mostly using Hawkgirl so I can't speak for why he used Zatanna and Lex against Grrr. Maybe he felt Grrr was less likely to know those MU and that'd be an edge. I would bet if you asked him he'd say he is quite confident he could possibly beat Grr with all 4 of his characters. It's not really fair to call them counterpicks either when they all naturally do good against Bane.

 

[coolwhip]

This isn't a good example though. PPJ does use Hawkgirl against Bane. He uses her against Max at our weeklies sometimes. He also uses Lex, Zatanna and even Shazam. Like many match ups who he uses depends on his mood at the time. For NEC he was mostly using Hawkgirl so I can't speak for why he used Zatanna and Lex against Grrr. Maybe he felt Grrr was less likely to know those MU and that'd be an edge. I would bet if you asked him he'd say he is quite confident he could possibly beat Grr with all 4 of his characters. It's not really fair to call them counterpicks either when they all naturally do good against Bane.

Plus, doesn't the fact that PPJ "counter-picked" with characters like Zatanna and Lex (as opposed to Kabals of this game Aquaman and MMH) say something about the game's balance? The guy we all joked about being our "low tier hero" just won the biggest tournament since the game's big patch.