The Zoning Academy (Mortal Kombat X Edition)

[SaltShaker]

Unless there are some hidden Dark Shroud zoning strategies to be discovered, the projectiles in Pyromancer seem too slow and too unsafe to me. For example, the low fireball has 20 frames of start up and is -18 on block.

Machine gun being the number one scrub killer is irrelevant at a high level. From about half screen away, more than half the cast can punish a neutral-crouched machine gun with a well-timed advancing special move. Jacqui will turn into a pressure and 50/50 mix up character as the game develops.

I agree with @Immortal. The Kenshi overestimation is ludicrous and unjustifiable. He may not even be top 10, much less top 5.

Cybernetic Kano is mid tier. You cannot win without pressure and 50/50 mix ups in this game.

Summoner Quan Chi is still the best zoning character in the game.

Basically, some powerful offensive characters, namely Erron Black And Raiden, have been normalized, but the game still revolves around 50/50 mix ups. If you are in denial, watch any high level stream, such as yesterday's Yomi tournament, for evidence. So, unfortunately, the game is still as boring and as shallow as ever. For the vast majority of characters, you must select a strong 50/50 mix up variation if you intend to have any chance at victory. Unless defensive options are improved or Tremor and Predator are the next Freddy and Zod, zoning will be remain worthless.

I actually think Pyro Tanya has some potential for hit and run play. Her Low Fireballs surely could be a little faster, but her air ones are pretty quick even though they suck on block. The hit/chip damage after a shroud is insane, and EX Air Fireball is hitting at 22% with Shroud and is great on block. She has good movement and mobility, and her away teleport is good for runaway. For General spacing and getting away while putting someone in a block string. It's still early so I'm not sure if gimmicks are getting away with more than they should or if she can be legit. I can see it though for now.

I agree with Jacqui. I've gotten to the point where when I play good players, whether the tournament heads or the clan heads, Jacqui's zoning is only a short temporary burst at best. Especially in certain MU's. I end up playing better using F3/F4 cancels into OH/Low mixups, and playing the footsie game with her normals and walk speed than I do trying to zone people out. She at least feels solid now that the bugs are hammered out.

I agree with both you and Immortal 100% on Kenshi.

I was thinking a couple of days ago what can they add to Kano to make him better but I have no idea at all. He pretty much has great tools in the wrong game.

Agree on Summoner too. Still hate that one of the main things that makes him great is forcing people to guess in a different way, but at least he can actually zone and win against the majority of the cast.

Yea I watched Yomi. I might have gotten a little overzealous being happy some Jacqui fixes finally came through and the patch notes. The game was purposely made to favor offense so I doubt we'll be getting too many additional defensive upgrades. Maybe WU improvements, but I can't imagine them giving us too many overall changes.

I have my fingers crossed that one of those two remaining DLC is a full on powerful zoner. I mean by default a character like Predator HAS TO be a zoning specialist right? There's still a slimmer of hope.

 

[SaltShaker]

Ive been trying erron marksman out to see if he works at long range, from what ive seen, just like rushd had to patiently crawl forward in injustice and in some mk9 MUs, the tables have turned and you have to patiently crawl away to zone in mkx, and theres less gtfo tools so you have to block correctly when they come in (thats in rushdown vs zoning, zoning vs zoning seems funner then im used to seeing) I still need to use his normals to get some respect but hes got a lot of tools. I try to end midscreen combos with whatever pushes them farthest away and then either shoot rifle/sand nade or fake it out and cancel, hes got an anti air sand throw too

What?

Aren't you that guy that hates zoning and bashes it all the time? Or am I getting you confused with someone else?

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

balanced kenshi is best zoner

 

[Carmine]

Basically, some powerful offensive characters, namely Erron Black And Raiden, have been normalized, but the game still revolves around 50/50 mix ups. If you are in denial, watch any high level stream, such as yesterday's Yomi tournament, for evidence. So, unfortunately, the game is still as boring and as shallow as ever. For the vast majority of characters, you must select a strong 50/50 mix up variation if you intend to have any chance at victory. Unless defensive options are improved or Tremor and Predator are the next Freddy and Zod, zoning will be remain worthless.

I'm a very new player looking to get into MKX, but didnt tempest kung lao win, a character with no 50/50?

 

[Rude]

So while i agree that Quan has a bad wake up game, he has ways to compensate for it.

For one thing, you can always delay wake up, block a pressure thing and then poke back on a minus poke. Or if they poke and hold block waiting for you to poke back, you could throw. Admittedly, it sucks but we Quan plays just need to delay our wake ups, block, and wait for the chance to poke out, which you can do.

And yeah, they can do a 50/50 on a knockdown. I know that. But that's why delayed wake up is so important. If they go for a 50/50 and you stay grounded, it usually won't hit you. To be clear, I'm not saying his wake up options are great. They suck. But you have to make the most of the tools your character has.

Besides, his defense in both Sorcerer and Warlock are improved. So long as you have one foot in the spell circle, you have armor. Step out and back in again and the armor is replenished. And while Sorcerer's zoning isn't as good as Summoner's, chip spell and armor spell more than make up for it.

For example, in chip circle, MB Rune does 10% chip. Normal rune does 6%. That's not bad at all considering it's unscaling chip damage for one bar.

The point is, he can't have a 50/50 looping vortex in all three variations, full screen frame traps betweeb Bat, Rune, and Skull and Skull and Runes from full screen in the other two variations, solid AA and midscreen damage, a down poke that gives you a 50/50 on hit, AND a fantastic wake up attack. He has to have a weakness or two.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I liked it in mk9 because I had the parry/teleport toolbag so to me projectiles were like candy, but years of injustice drove me nuts because shazam got shot at by the entire cast (even some doomsdays would be playing keep away). Its hard to stay mad at it in mkx because I always get in close now.

 

[M2Dave]

I'm a very new player looking to get into MKX, but didnt tempest kung lao win, a character with no 50/50?

As far as I know, he does not have any 50/50 mix ups.

However, he has great pressure and the best defensive move in the game.

 

[RM Truth]

I play Sub-Zero, and I chuck a lot of ice balls. Can I join? I also zoned a shit ton with Batman when I fought Flash or Bane.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Pyro Tanya needs more buffs to fireballs.
I had high hopes for that variation

 

[Carmine]

As far as I know, he does not have any 50/50 mix ups.

However, he has great pressure and the best defensive move in the game.

Yeah, but isn't that what you want a defensive character that doesn't have a 50/50 to being doing well? Or is it more you just want zoning to be a stronger tool in footsies? Or for zoning to be an entire playstyle?

 

[WakeUp DP]

ok i respect that, gotta pick what suits you best but Ive seen tom and a few other players make adaptations that make it seem fine. I dont use the OS bug but it seems to favor Sub more than any char I can think of.
Ever give unbreakable a good chance? I started to like it once i learned to anticipate the jump ins

I mained him back in MK9 and too much bad habits with the ice clone. It just wont go away.

I tried all his variations, GM suited me best.

 

[M2Dave]

Yeah, but isn't that what you want a defensive character that doesn't have a 50/50 to being doing well? Or is it more you just want zoning to be a stronger tool in footsies? Or for zoning to be an entire playstyle?

I would like zoning to be a stronger play style.

But I am impressed with what @Denzell has accomplished with Tempest Kung Lao. I am actually highly surprised any time someone wins without abusing 50/50 mix ups.

 

[M2Dave]

The new zoning tier list as of 06/10.

1. Summoner Quan Chi
2. Balanced Kenshi
3. Pyromancer Tanya
4. Grandmaster Sub Zero
5. Full Auto Jacqui

My zoning brothers and sisters, also please welcome @GGA 16 Bit to the Zoning Academy as the one and only zoning princess of the Zoning Academy.

 

[LaidbackOne]

The new zoning tier list as of 06/10.

1. Summoner Quan Chi
2. Balanced Kenshi
3. Pyromancer Tanya
4. Grandmaster Sub Zero
5. Full Auto Jacqui

My zoning brothers and sisters, also please welcome @GGA 16 Bit to the Zoning Academy as the one and only zoning princess of the Zoning Academy.

Jacqui beat Cyber Kano? That's because she has more zoning options than he does?

 

[KingKhrystopher]

If I'm not considered a lame fool, I wish to join.
MK9: Kitana
MKX: Kitana

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

6. Kano Cyb
7.Jax
8. EB Marksman
9 Raiden MOS/Displacer
10. Liu Kang?

 

[M2Dave]

Jacqui beat Cyber Kano? That's because she has more zoning options than he does?

Correct. She also has a safe 50/50 mix up, superior footsies, and more damage output.

Cybernetic Kano is low mid tier in my opinion.

If I'm not considered a lame fool, I wish to join.
MK9: Kitana
MKX: Kitana

The struggle for Kitana players is real in Mortal Kombat X. You are in.

 

[Rude]

The new zoning tier list as of 06/10.

1. Summoner Quan Chi
2. Balanced Kenshi
3. Pyromancer Tanya
4. Grandmaster Sub Zero
5. Full Auto Jacqui

My zoning brothers and sisters, also please welcome @GGA 16 Bit to the Zoning Academy as the one and only zoning princess of the Zoning Academy.

The Kano dream is dead. It's just not enough.

Even i have played more Quan Chi lately. Although, and this is only my perspective, i feel like Quan Chi wins more off his vortex than pure zoning.

 

[16 Bit]

I spent 2 years as a rushdown fool but that was only because I wanted to represent Catwoman in Injustice. I will fully play the style that best works for my girls. With Kitana back as a zoner I fully embrace a return to my zoning roots and I appreciate hardcore zoners like M2Dave understanding this and welcoming me back. The Kitana struggle may be real but I am dedicated to playing only her and zoning out these 50/50 characters as best as I can. The zoning princess is here!

 

[Rude]

I spent 2 years as a rushdown fool but that was only because I wanted to represent Catwoman in Injustice. I will fully play the style that best works for my girls. With Kitana back as a zoner I fully embrace a return to my zoning roots and I appreciate hardcore zoners like M2Dave understanding this and welcoming me back. The Kitana struggle may be real but I am dedicated to playing only her and zoning out these 50/50 characters as best as I can. The zoning princess is here!

You and m2Dave joining forces???

The apocalypse is nigh. One not even the combined forces of The Slayer and the Vampire with a Soul can prevent.

 

[KingKhrystopher]

The struggle for Kitana players is real in Mortal Kombat X. You are in.

Yay! I finally have purpose in my life!

 

[M2Dave]

The Kano dream is dead. It's just not enough.

Spread the word in the Kano forum. There are a couple of fools in there who believe Kano is fine.

I spent 2 years as a rushdown fool but that was only because I wanted to represent Catwoman in Injustice. I will fully play the style that best works for my girls. With Kitana back as a zoner I fully embrace a return to my zoning roots and I appreciate hardcore zoners like M2Dave understanding this and welcoming me back. The Kitana struggle may be real but I am dedicated to playing only her and zoning out these 50/50 characters as best as I can. The zoning princess is here!

It is good to have you back doing what you do best.

Let us hope Kitana gets some more buffs in the next patch!

 

[Awkward Sloth]

As soon as they make Tanya's air fire balls half as negative and ex it to be an overhead, lessen the start up the non arced ground fireball by about 2 frames or lessen the recovery by 4-6 frames she'll be a great zoner.

I'm hoping online fools don't say she's too good cause they don't know how to block and counter accordingly. :/

 

[SaltShaker]

The new zoning tier list as of 06/10.

1. Summoner Quan Chi
2. Balanced Kenshi
3. Pyromancer Tanya
4. Grandmaster Sub Zero
5. Full Auto Jacqui

I agree with this for sure. I think GM Sub and Pyro Tanya are a split at 3 and 4, and the rest is exactly how I would place it as well.

The Kano dream is dead. It's just not enough.

Even i have played more Quan Chi lately.

Yea man it's over. Being armed with knives in the "Middle of the pack" just isn't cutting it when the upper half of the pack is armed with nukes.

I spent 2 years as a rushdown fool but that was only because I wanted to represent Catwoman in Injustice. I will fully play the style that best works for my girls. With Kitana back as a zoner I fully embrace a return to my zoning roots and I appreciate hardcore zoners like M2Dave understanding this and welcoming me back. The Kitana struggle may be real but I am dedicated to playing only her and zoning out these 50/50 characters as best as I can. The zoning princess is here!

It was rough watching you play Catwoman for two years, but in the end irrelevant because us true zoners always knew in the end you were coming back. Coming home.

 

[WakeUp DP]

As much as I dont like the Kitana community, I'm gonna have to agree with her getting buffed as she is one of the few zoning chars in this game.

Proud member of the Zoning Academy.