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The Zoning + 50/50 + Free Wakeup Meta

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
The game is still only a few days old, yes, MU's cannot be determined for obvious reasons, nor can tiers. However, it's very much obvious certain characters are free to do as they please no matter where they are on the screen. For a game designed around neutral and various playstyles, characters shouldn't excel in all the above.

If the design is to zone, then zone like how Deadshot is designed or Fate or Darkseid. HOWEVER, this doesn't now mean that they also need fullscreen mobility such as a teleport, AND/OR 50/50's that they can throw out up close. If the design is to zone, then zone, but don't stack on free 50/50's with it too that can grant a full blown combo if you spend meter. The very same meter the zoners hoard by, you guessed it, their zoning. If they're to zone/trap like the likes of Green Lantern or Firestorm, there is no need for them to also have 50/50's or crossup setups and a strong neutral, if again, they're designed to zone.

There is no reason to have exceptional zoning that can literally win you games simply by the projectiles themselves, plus 50/50's and crossups, plus waking up for free. If your zoning is THAT good, to win games just by the zoning alone, that character should have no 50/50's whatsoever besides a sweep and their F3. If they need a get off me tool, or a good wakeup, make it invincible, but meterless or meterburned, it should be able to be full combo punished on block. These zoners build more than enough meter to utilize MBroll to escape the corner as well as air tech out of punishes, and to pushblock. They don't need additional safety, or a threatening neutral, or free and safe ways to open someone up, if the zoning itself makes the character shine.

Below is a clip of matches where you can clearly see MBrolling hardly does anything because of the recovery. I, the one trying to get in on the zoning, winds up getting mixed and thrown back. And lastly, you knock them down, and you can't even OKI these characters because NRS feels that they'll somehow be bad if they aren't able to get out of jail for free:

 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
As a disclaimer, I'm not against zoning. I mained Sindel in MK9
try harder noob

zoning is fair and only skilled players can see the effort and thought going behind it while 50/50s aren't earned they are just given
Hopefully you're being sarcastic because nowhere did it state that zoning was a scrub tactic or to be removed. The issue is your "skilled players" have amazing zoning PLUS these un"earned" 50/50's.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I would use that first pic as a Tshirt pic, but the text would be too small :(
 

Shaka

Tier Whore.
I agreed that top zoners shouldn't habe safe 50/50s that lead into full combos, but if said combos do very little damage that could be fine.
 
There's 7 or 8 zoners in this game, for anyone worried about it going away I really don't think they'll nerf all 8 characters to the like of say DS.

After only two days, from what I've personally seen so far, no character is broken or needs immediate attention.

Zoning will be a thing in inj2, to anyone (not talking to the OP here) saying it's cheap, broken whatever you want to label it, level up or leave. I'm sorry but I don't want to see a 4th game get ruined because of casual players, sometimes it was competitive players, tearing about what they can't or won't find a way around.
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
There's 7 or 8 zoners in this game, for anyone worried about it going away I really don't think they'll nerf all 8 characters to the like of say DS.

After only two days, from what I've personally seen so far, no character is broken or needs immediate attention.

Zoning will be a thing in inj2, to anyone (not talking to the OP here) saying it's cheap, broken whatever you want to label it, level up or leave. I'm sorry but I don't want to see a 4th game get ruined because of casual players, sometimes it was competitive players, tearing about what they can't or won't find a way around.
More or less, this. I'm all for all types of playstyles and archetypes, but not where you have something like S tier zoning paired with up close 50/50s that are safe, and can wake up for free. If people don't see how lopsided that is, then I don't know what to say.
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?


Nigga deadshot about to get hit by the nerf bullet.
Honestly though -__- Morrigan is hype asf to watch because you know their execution has to be fucking flawless and their cancels on point, and literally only sees competitive play by a literal handful of players, if even that. The zoners for this game have laughable "execution" and can still accomplish what they need to do. My peeve is that if zoning is going to be this good for them, they shouldn't have 50/50S or cross up setups to open you up, when the design is to zone
 

Gemini

LoFi
This is exactly what I'm talking about. As a Grodd main even if I do manage to get in on my opponent they still get to do whatever they please. I have to constantly guess between Invincible wakeups that can be safe or plus if they burn the bar; Which they always have since while zoning they gain buckets of meter. Then once you're back in neutral, (If you could call it that) your neutral game is completely negated by the fact that they can back dash or jump to safety at any moment. There is no risk reward to zoning, or so it seems. Since one misplay out of me and I'm sent full screen again just continuing the cycle.

NOW... LET ME BE VERY CLEAR...

In injustice 1 I mained Zatanna and In MKX Pyromancer Tanya So I know how to zone, I'm all for zoning. Zoning is skilled play. It takes skill to get around. But there is no risk to it which makes it all the more worthwhile for the Zoners. That is my only gripe with this game as of yet. As a close combat character I am rewarded with nothing for my troubles when I score a knockdown. I can't stick to the opponent...

Now... For the people who may disagree... Make a list of reasons why Zoners are good/bad then do the same for NON Zoners. (Example: Cheetah, Flash, Bane, Catwoman)
Now you tell me in this "Meta" who has the advantage (with reasoning)
 
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RYX

BIG PUSHER
idk i don't think zoning needs nerfs immediately but if zoning in general turns out to be too strong we could just buff the universal counters. doesn't make them directly worse but lets other players use what's already in the game

do agree that strong zoning shouldn't be paired with 50/50s though, at least not good ones
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
I don't think some of you actually read the OP. He's not complaining about zoning, but about characters who zone being able to do 50/50's, invincible/good wakeups, good neutral, etc. And like wise rushdown characters being able to do the same.
 

Gemini

LoFi
idk i don't think zoning needs nerfs immediately but if zoning in general turns out to be too strong we could just buff the universal counters. doesn't make them directly worse but lets other players use what's already in the game

do agree that strong zoning shouldn't be paired with 50/50s though, at least not good ones
Yeah the zoning here isn't the issue. Them zoning is fair, that's what they were designed to do. The issue lies with them escaping out of pressure nearly for free and completely negating footsies or neutral.
 

CriminalCreed

But will it mix?
Coming from a grappler-char player, it's not that hard to get in this time around due to the how fast you get meter/mb roll/armor. Staying in is the difficult part of fighting against zoners, but not all zone characters in this game present real problems in that area aside from the characters with with wake-ups that lead to plus frames on block. And even in that case you can usually neutral jump to blow it up. I think it's a tad too early to be talking about metas' being established, but that's just an opinion.
 

Vithar

Evil but Honest!
@ OP
''Free Wakeup''
Excuse me , are you some kind of MKX scrub that likes the mechanics of the bad and unprofessional game MKX?
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
@ OP
''Free Wakeup''
Excuse me , are you some kind of MKX scrub that likes the mechanics of the bad and unprofessional game MKX?
Are you confusing invincibility with safety? Because that's what I'm talking about. I highly doubt anyone has an issue with invincible wakeups provided there's a risk, but currently for the zoners, there is none. MB their wakeup and they're safe, and they always have bar due to the zoning. So yes, "free wakeup"
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
This kinda reminds me of Dark Souls PvP. You can level up to whatever level you'd like, but the meta level is 120. The competitive community caps the level at 120 because this is the level you can still have quality builds but they have to specialize in a certain aspect. If the meta was like 300+, every build would have everything and the PvP would be boring as shit.

This is similar in nature. Characters who specialize in zoning should suffer up close, not be just as deadly. That makes zero sense. Oh I finally got in on you? Yay now I get to eat a 50/50! Or a safe string that gets you out safely! Like seriously, think about that. This is why Kabal was the undisputed champ of MK9, it's also why he's the best in UMK3. Characters shouldn't have everything, and if they do, the everything they have should be normalized in some way. Such as Seth in SF4.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
This kinda reminds me of Dark Souls PvP. You can level up to whatever level you'd like, but the meta level is 120. The competitive community caps the level at 120 because this is the level you can still have quality builds but they have to specialize in a certain aspect. If the meta was like 300+, every build would have everything and the PvP would be boring as shit.

This is similar in nature. Characters who specialize in zoning should suffer up close, not be just as deadly. That makes zero sense. Oh I finally got in on you? Yay now I get to eat a 50/50! Or a safe string that gets you out safely! Like seriously, think about that. This is why Kabal was the undisputed champ of MK9, it's also why he's the best in UMK3. Characters shouldn't have everything, and if they do, the everything they have should be normalized in some way. Such as Seth in SF4.
please don't give harada ideas to nerf my boy Jin.
 

Solid

The Longbow Hunter.
Lol at the OP. What rule book are you reading from? Didn't USF4 Sagat have high and low fireballs, low confirms and that sweet elbow overhead to close matches on a knockdown. Since when can't zoners have that?
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I wonder if some time we will learn to give some time to nrs games before even starting balance conversations, even less campaigns.

Early nerf/buffs are known for creating trash/monster characters that use to stay like that too much time after.



Nigga deadshot about to get hit by the nerf bullet.
Pretty surprised that he made such a bs statement tbh.
 
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