That is very true; the only issues are that it doesn't have the range of dbf1, so it will whiff in some combos, it leaves the opponent much farther away than dbf1, and the hit advantage is only 23 as opposed to dbf1's 31. So overall, you can't really follow it up with anything.This thread is simply amazing. Awesome job!
I would also like to add that her db1 Savage Ambush isn't exclusive to crouching opponents. I found this out by accident when I messed up a dbf1 mid-combo.
Basically I found that her db1 can be used in just about any juggle situation where a dbf1 would connect, it seems to do about the same amount of damage, and it can be meter burned for a follow-up just like dbf1.
Just thought I'd mention it since it's much easier to consistently pull off if you have trouble with dbf inputs like me.
I didn't realize it can whiff where dbf1 doesn't. I usually connect it to a standing 3 which seems to work every time. Good info!That is very true; the only issues are that it doesn't have the range of dbf1, so it will whiff in some combos, it leaves the opponent much farther away than dbf1, and the hit advantage is only 23 as opposed to dbf1's 31. So overall, you can't really follow it up with anything.
That said, db1 switches sides while dbf1 does not, and vice versa for the meter-burn versions. That could have some uses once we start to understand the game more.
Overall, I think she just benefits too much more from dbf1 than from db1.
Just sometimes, especially from 112 combos.I didn't realize it can whiff where dbf1 doesn't. I usually connect it to a standing 3 which seems to work every time. Good info!
Yeah with 112 it whiffs but with 22 it usually always connects and the damage for both is the same i believeJust sometimes, especially from 112 combos.
This thread is simply amazing. Awesome job!
I would also like to add that her db1 Savage Ambush isn't exclusive to crouching opponents. I found this out by accident when I messed up a dbf1 mid-combo.
Basically I found that her db1 can be used in just about any juggle situation where a dbf1 would connect, it seems to do about the same amount of damage, and it can be meter burned for a follow-up just like dbf1.
Just thought I'd mention it since it's much easier to consistently pull off if you have trouble with dbf inputs like me.
I found it too inconsistent, and you lose so much damage, though that +37 standing reset almost makes it worth it. I'll test it a bit more and post my findings.Have you tried buffering the input? 11d2bf1 will read as 112dbf1. I find connecting the string after a j3 to be tricky though so usually do ji2 ji1 112 and you don't drop much damage with the double jump although a j3 is still optimal.
While I'm here does anyone have any advice on hitting f23 at the end of a corner juggle? I've tried a few combinations of jump in attacks and standing normals to try and hit this consistently but still having limited success
Yeah I just want the extra options in the corner since I'm feeling more comfortable with what I'm already doing with her. That and it looks pretty swag soI found it too inconsistent, and you lose so much damage, though that +37 standing reset almost makes it worth it. I'll test it a bit more and post my findings.
@bishbash f3-j3-f23(throw) does 315, which is decent. You have to delay the f23 just long enough for both hits to connect. Same with a naked j3.
F3 has deceptive range; it actually reaches just as far as b3 while breaking armor and being a +10-on-block overhead. It adds to her mixup game since it must be blocked standing, but your opponent is going to be afraid of your d3 or b1. It also has an enormous hitbox that will catch jumping opponents. It's essentially better in every single way than her b3, except for a few specific bounce cancels.I don't get the f3 love, it's only useful as part of her oki. B3 seems to have a good hit / hurt box so you can throw it out in neutral and still be safe, maybe catch something and not get stuffed out like f3 does.
Not too sure what you are saying here.It doesn't "break armour", the second hit has to connect and it's doesn't instantly follow the first hit and the first hit can whiff. It's start-up is still horrendous for an overhead, I'm not seeing anyone abuse it at a high level, though I'm not seeing many people use cheetah
Ok, assuming all of that is true, how is b3 any better? It too does not break armor and it too has a horrendous start-up (especially for a Mid). I'm really not sure what the argument is, here.It doesn't "break armour", the second hit has to connect and it's doesn't instantly follow the first hit and the first hit can whiff. It's start-up is still horrendous for an overhead, I'm not seeing anyone abuse it at a high level, though I'm not seeing many people use cheetah
Did they nerf her D3 range or something? D3 doesn't hit at the start of the match, I don't think.It has very deceptive range; it will hit at the start of the match
Yeah, it's been whiffing for me against a lot of characters lately. Don't know what might have changed. It will still catch anyone trying to do anything other than jump or move back, though, so it's still a decent way to start the round against anyone not named Aquaman.Did they nerf her D3 range or something? D3 doesn't hit at the start of the match, I don't think.
Fantastic guide though, really appreciate your work @karaokelove.