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The Truth About MLG

haketh

Noob
There's been plenty of tweets from EG/Capcom guys complaining about the disaster that was Killer Instinct.

Smash was the least pathetic but it was still delayed due to the same reasons. The incidents affected everyone in the FGC not just the Injustice community.

Maybe you were referring to the COD tournament. Then in that case you are right. It seems like only the FGC tourneys had huge problems. Every time I tuned to watch some COD everything was running very smooth, non-stop stream action + interviews before an ad showed up. No delay or apparent problems whatsoever for the rest of MLG. edit: Forgot about StarCraft. Yeah apparently they had problems too related to internet issues mostly but still a lot of delay for them.
Starcraft also had a ton of problems.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
If it was MLG's first go round with the FGC I could understand, but it's not.
Which is why people are giving them another chance. Because people who were here for MK know how well MLG has done for FGs in the past.

Lets look objectively at some of the problems at MLG and why they would occur:
Tournament delay- Due to online brackets crashing, all on MLG, unacceptable

Security "injustices"- This is where things get complicated. Before I start you have to realize there was a BOMB THREAT, along with two false fire alarms. Now say you are a security guard working this thing. Is it that hard to believe that you would probably be on edge, maybe even a little pissed off? I dont think this is MLGs fault at all, I think more blame should be placed on the jackasses who pulled the alarm and called in the bomb threat.

Stream- There have always been breaks between matches for commercials and dubstep. Its annoying but it is necessary for them to set up the next match. However the problem was no one was sending matches to the stream. This is SUPER easy to fix by getting one NRS representative to call up matches to the stream. OR you could let one of the announcers do it, either way this issue can be solved super easy.

Was MLG bad? Yes. But to throw away an entire opportunity for our community is not only insane, it is fucking dumb. Not to mention some of these "problems" were not even MLG's fault entirely. No one is giving them a free pass, we all agree there needs to be some major changes from that tournament, but the MLG guys have been open to improving in the past and we have no reason to believe they won't be now.

TL:DR: Stop being stupid and trying to ruin a potential opportunity for the NRS community because of one bad tournament.
 
Some fun facts about injustice at MLG Anaheim:

- wound cowboy made money, but didn't get to the big stage.
- floE and Chris G had about as much maybe more air time that Tyrant did getting T5 place.
- red reaper got prematurely DQ'd when he was at his station to play DJT. Because of this, they had to wait about 40min to get a ref to play to play.
- Cal-El saved the stream at the end of day 1.
- numerous occasions where players had to stop their match and/or restart their match due to lack of referees.
- Levelup side tournament better than main tournament.
- pig streamed about as much maybe more matches Saturday night after the tournament than MLG did all tournament.
- had to make the refs change to get King vs Jupiter top 8 match on stream. (There was no other matches scheduled)
 

Euphoric

MKX
Premium Supporter
Lol at people trying to associate stream "fuck ups" to being treated like actual shit at the tournament in person. It's not a fuck up, atendees are complaining to be treated like shit alongside the poorly ran tournament.

And as far as the lack of respect and consideration for the multiple games. MLG doesn't have a consistent hired staff they hire random blokes for the weekend and pick who they feel may do the job, FGC at least has people from the scene as staff. MLG to me it seems hires randoms to save money. You can even see Adam tweet out sometimes 'XYZ person in this area interested in a job yadayada send your resume for XYZ MLG Event', they have no idea of the personality of the person, they hire based on paper credentials it seems and not character or intergrity.

This is why there's always jerks sometimes.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Lol at people trying to associate stream "fuck ups" to being treated like actual shit at the tournament in person. It's not a fuck up, atendees are complaining to be treated like shit.

And as far as the lack of respect and consideration for the multiple games. MLG doesn't have a consistent hired staff they hire random blokes for the weekend and pick who they feel may do the job, FGC at least has people from the scene as staff. MLG to me it seems hires randoms to save money. You can even see Adam tweet out sometimes XY person in this area interested in a job yadayada send you're resume, they have no idea of the personality of the person, they hire based on paper credentials it seems and not character or intergrity.

This is why there's always jerks sometimes.
You do realize though that any security guard experienced or not is going to crackdown after a bomb threat and two fire alarms pulled? Like, can we start pushing some of this blame towards those assholes who were a primary reason for the tournament being so shitty? (Fire alarms caused delays and bomb threat caused increased security)
 

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
And as far as the lack of respect and consideration for the multiple games. MLG doesn't have a consistent hired staff they hire random blokes for the weekend and pick who they feel may do the job, FGC at least has people from the scene as staff. MLG to me it seems hires randoms to save money. You can even see Adam tweet out sometimes 'XYZ person in this area interested in a job yadayada send your resume for XYZ MLG Event', they have no idea of the personality of the person, they hire based on paper credentials it seems and not character or intergrity.

This is why there's always jerks sometimes.
How is that our problem?

Like, seriously.

Why would we give them a free pass over their shoddy hiring practices when they're charging 55$ for a spectator pass (And more if you play but that's normal - all tournaments do it)?

Shit service, even if there's a valid reason for it, is shit service period. At the very least acknowledge the problems and vow to do better next time to ALL communities. Not just Smash. Just that would be reason enough to say "Hey if MLG is planning on doing something else we should attend because they seem to have learned some lessons."
 
Stream- There have always been breaks between matches for commercials and dubstep. Its annoying but it is necessary for them to set up the next match. However the problem was no one was sending matches to the stream. This is SUPER easy to fix by getting one NRS representative to call up matches to the stream. OR you could let one of the announcers do it, either way this issue can be solved super easy.

Was MLG bad? Yes. But to throw away an entire opportunity for our community is not only insane, it is fucking dumb. Not to mention some of these "problems" were not even MLG's fault entirely. No one is giving them a free pass, we all agree there needs to be some major changes from that tournament, but the MLG guys have been open to improving in the past and we have no reason to believe they won't be now.

TL:DR: Stop being stupid and trying to ruin a potential opportunity for the NRS community because of one bad tournament.
I don't understand why I need to keep repeating this ad nauseam but here it goes again.

Everyone understands that the reason MLG gets the prize pots they do is due to advertising. This is not news. This is not the problem. The problem is the inconsistency with which the breaks were handled. They knew it was poorly run on Friday and then went ahead and ran it nearly as badly on Saturday. While the "fix" may be easy, it's pretty clear it's not easy to implement or the stream on Saturday wouldn't have been as bad as it was. Not only that but you'd figure that if they had first hand experience with MK9 that using grass roots TOs to help them made it run smoother why wouldn't they continue that with Injustice?

Being as my computer isn't complete trash I had multiple streams open. The smash stream had less breaks, of a shorter variety than the injustice stream did. The smash stream apparently cared enough about ad revenue to have some anti-adblock software running because that was the only stream that was forcing me to disable it. The injustice stream didn't. Why does that matter? Cause it's just another level of "I don't give a fuck" shown by mlg towards the injustice stream. They didn't give enough of a shit about it to even ensure it was being properly monetized. Another thing about the breaks, for those of you that missed my crash course in advertising, even on my kindle that had NO ad block software installed, a majority of the breaks didn't even have any ads on display any way. Injustice was running one set into 40 minutes of commercials while at the EXACT SAME TIME Smash wasn't, so I don't want to hear this bullshit about how it was the fire alarm and the brackets that caused the stream situation to be so garbage. Cause smash had to deal with the same issues and the stream was leaps and bounds ahead of Injustice.

And lastly, can you quantify exactly what MLG did for MK9? Yes, they ran some good tournaments, and certainly for the people in the money it was a major boost. But for MK9 as a game can you actually quantify the difference being featured in a couple of MLG events made? For instance, what were the grass roots tourney numbers the year before and the year after? For instance MK9 ad 155 entrants for CEO 2011 and like 30 for CEO 2013, I can't find the numbers for 2012 any where but if MLG saved MK9 then sure the numbers should have been up for 2012 right?
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
Not really. They screwed up this weekend really bad but MLG was arguably the best thing that ever happened to MK9. People need to calm themselves and give MLG another chance, we don't want to throwaway good opportunities due to one poorly ran event.

And before anyone says no grassroots tournaments have been that bad, people talk about UFGT 8 like it was pretty damn close, but then look how awesome 9 was. (I might have got those numbers wrong).

I had a great time at UFGT9, i think the only complaining was about the stream time, which was understandable. But pools were run orderly and on time
 

Euphoric

MKX
Premium Supporter
How is that our problem?

Like, seriously.

Why would we give them a free pass over their shoddy hiring practices when they're charging 55$ for a spectator pass (And more if you play but that's normal - all tournaments do it)?

Shit service, even if there's a valid reason for it, is shit service period. At the very least acknowledge the problems and vow to do better next time to ALL communities. Not just Smash. Just that would be reason enough to say "Hey if MLG is planning on doing something else we should attend because they seem to have learned some lessons."
I didn't say it's your problem did you read...I said that's why they have assholes.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I don't understand why I need to keep repeating this ad nauseam but here it goes again.

Everyone understands that the reason MLG gets the prize pots they do is due to advertising. This is not news. This is not the problem. The problem is the inconsistency with which the breaks were handled. They knew it was poorly run on Friday and then went ahead and ran it nearly as badly on Saturday. While the "fix" may be easy, it's pretty clear it's not easy to implement or the stream on Saturday wouldn't have been as bad as it was. Not only that but you'd figure that if they had first hand experience with MK9 that using grass roots TOs to help them made it run smoother why wouldn't they continue that with Injustice?

Being as my computer isn't complete trash I had multiple streams open. The smash stream had less breaks, of a shorter variety than the injustice stream did. The smash stream apparently cared enough about ad revenue to have some anti-adblock software running because that was the only stream that was forcing me to disable it. The injustice stream didn't. Why does that matter? Cause it's just another level of "I don't give a fuck" shown by mlg towards the injustice stream. They didn't give enough of a shit about it to even ensure it was being properly monetized. Another thing about the breaks, for those of you that missed my crash course in advertising, even on my kindle that had NO ad block software installed, a majority of the breaks didn't even have any ads on display any way. Injustice was running one set into 40 minutes of commercials while at the EXACT SAME TIME Smash wasn't, so I don't want to hear this bullshit about how it was the fire alarm and the brackets that caused the stream situation to be so garbage. Cause smash had to deal with the same issues and the stream was leaps and bounds ahead of Injustice.

And lastly, can you quantify exactly what MLG did for MK9? Yes, they ran some good tournaments, and certainly for the people in the money it was a major boost. But for MK9 as a game can you actually quantify the difference being featured in a couple of MLG events made? For instance, what were the grass roots tourney numbers the year before and the year after? For instance MK9 ad 155 entrants for CEO 2011 and like 30 for CEO 2013, I can't find the numbers for 2012 any where but if MLG saved MK9 then sure the numbers should have been up for 2012 right?
The long breaks were bad, I already said that. However, you as a stream monster did not pay shit and are not entitled to shit. I dont feel bad for the stream monsters, if you want to see every match go to the tourney. I am always grateful for the matches we do get to see , but also realize it is more important to please the players at the tournament than the ones sitting on their couch. That being said, it is obvious that those at the tournament were pissed, which is a real issue.

And MLG was practically what reinvigorated the MK9 scene when they picked it up. It brought hype, rivalries, and had some of the most impressive turnouts of any MK tournament(the first two or three hit over one hundred IIRC). And as someone who went to MLG Dallas let me tell you: I had never been to a tournament that was so well organized and fun to watch. I actually got DQ'd cause of traffic which was my bad but I still got to stay and meet a bunch of people and play casuals on the stations that weren't being used. They even did a lot of interviews and segments with top players explaining how the game worked to newcomers, something grassroots never did. The e-sports money doesnt affect anyone who wins it, but it sure as hell puts a fire in competitors bellies and made everything way more tense to watch.

Now obviously this MLG wasn't like that and there were some major problems. My point though is not all of them are 100% MLGs fault, and for us to throw away this opportunity because of one bad tournament is stupid. If this shit happens again then fine, we might be better off without them. But if they get their shit together like they did in MK then MLG can only bring good things to the community.

P.S. None of this is digging at grassroots tournaments. The best option we have is to have both grassroots and MLG so that our community has even more opportunities to get out and play the game they love.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
MK9 was still big when and before MLG had the tournaments.. I don't know what you're talking about like they were the saving grace.
You obviously weren't around during the time. The numbers had been dwindling and there had been lots of complaint threads and threats to quit the game etc. Then MLG came around and everyone looked past MK9s flaws because esports money and it brought us as a community much closer.

Plus it roped in some spectators and even players from the other scenes as well. I remember a good chunk of the SC2 crowd coming over to watch MK9 grand finals at Dallas because we were getting so hype. I even heard a few people behind me talk about picking the game up.

Everyone here who was actually around for MLG knows how big it was to the community. Please stop trying to tell people who were actually a part of the MK scene that MLG did nothing for MK, because those of us who were there know how huge it was for us.
 
The long breaks were bad, I already said that. However, you as a stream monster did not pay shit and are not entitled to shit. I dont feel bad for the stream monsters, if you want to see every match go to the tourney. I am always grateful for the matches we do get to see , but also realize it is more important to please the players at the tournament than the ones sitting on their couch. That being said, it is obvious that those at the tournament were pissed, which is a real issue.
While I agree that obviously the wrongs done to the people attendance are far more important, you're flat out wrong here. If we go back to advertising 101, if there's no stream, there aren't as many ads, they can't sell as much ad space, they don't make as much money, the pots aren't as big, and they can't lend as much support as they otherwise would be able to. End of. The stream matters whether people pay for access to it or not and it in their best interest to have it well run.

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/major-league-gaming-mlg-profitable/

We wouldn’t be able to fund the planned activity without the increased ad revenue we see on the MLG.TV platform. That is all.

— Sundance DiGiovanni (@MLGSundance) January 9, 2014
MLG.tv, the company’s major new video-streaming service, has ushered in a major increase in advertising revenue, a feat CEO Sundance DiGiovanni has been championing for months.
Don't get it twisted, free doesn't mean you get shit service. I work in tech, when I do tech jobs for people that go to my mom's job for free I don't dick them around just cause it's "free", I treat them the same way as if I'd been getting paid for it cause that's the way it should be done.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
While I agree that obviously the wrongs done to the people attendance are far more important, you're flat out wrong here. If we go back to advertising 101, if there's no stream, there aren't as many ads, they can't sell as much ad space, they don't make as much money, the pots aren't as big, and they can't lend as much support as they otherwise would be able to. End of. The stream matters whether people pay for access to it or not and it in their best interest to have it well run.

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/major-league-gaming-mlg-profitable/





Don't get it twisted, free doesn't mean you get shit service. I work in tech, when I do tech jobs for people that go to my mom's job for free I don't dick them around just cause it's "free", I treat them the same way as if I'd been getting paid for it cause that's the way it should be done.
Hint: They don't make any money off of the FGC. It doesnt matter how much ads they get or how much viewers they get, Fighting Games will always lose them money. The only reason Injustice and KI were there was because an MLG organizer wanted it to be there, if it was about profitability LoL would be back in the line-up as would Halo, etc.

What I am saying is you want to give up MLG because they had a bad stream. But the truth is the streams have never been that great, and it has always been about how they treat the players. Streams are a privilege, not a right.
 
Hint: They don't make any money off of the FGC. It doesnt matter how much ads they get or how much viewers they get, Fighting Games will always lose them money. The only reason Injustice and KI were there was because an MLG organizer wanted it to be there, if it was about profitability LoL would be back in the line-up as would Halo, etc.

What I am saying is you want to give up MLG because they had a bad stream. But the truth is the streams have never been that great, and it has always been about how they treat the players. Streams are a privilege, not a right.
Not when they advertise it as part of their brand it's not.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Funny, I've yet to see a disclaimer that nothing applies to fighting games other the one you just gave.
Youre not getting it. They dont have to even provide a stream, and it is kind of a waste business wise to do so. But they do it anyway because they want to include the FGC when they can. This stream like the tournament was bad, but it has not always been like this.

One bad stream does not erase four great tournaments and streams. Thats all im saying, but go ahead and keep pouting.
 
Youre not getting it. They dont have to even provide a stream, and it is kind of a waste business wise to do so. But they do it anyway because they want to include the FGC when they can. This stream like the tournament was bad, but it has not always been like this.

One bad stream does not erase four great tournaments and streams. Thats all im saying, but go ahead and keep pouting.
Actually they do, cause they advertise they do. If anyone doesn't get it its you. Grass roots doesn't have to provide a stream, but once mlg says they are then they have to. Especially once they sell ad space for it, but continue to ignore that cause it doesn't fit your narrative.

what you don't seem to get is that being free is irrelevant. DirecTV provides free on demand service as a bonus. Its not a part of any other service, you don't pay for it like you do with HD or DVR service. You think that when its not working they're just like, "its free, thank your lucky stars it ever works dummy." No, cause they can't cause it doesn't matter. Once its been put out there that's it available then they need to make sure its working.
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Actually they do, cause they advertise they do. If anyone doesn't get it its you. Grass roots doesn't have to provide a stream, but once mlg says they are then they have to. Especially once they sell ad space for it, but continue to ignore that cause it doesn't fit your narrative.



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Let me break this down for you. You are basing your judgement of an entire circuit on ONE tournament stream. When there are plenty of people who can attest how great the last FOUR tournaments and streams were. Thats like going to your favorite restaurant five times and having great service and food, but the fifth time you get one asshole waiter. Are you going to completely boycott that restaurant, or are you going to give the restaurant another chance?

If the former is your answer, then I dont know what to tell you. Have fun at grassroots(which totally dont ever have bad tournaments, no way).
 
Let me break this down for you. You are basing your judgement of an entire circuit on ONE tournament stream. When there are plenty of people who can attest how great the last FOUR tournaments and streams were. Thats like going to your favorite restaurant five times and having great service and food, but the fifth time you get one asshole waiter. Are you going to completely boycott that restaurant, or are you going to give the restaurant another chance?

If the former is your answer, then I dont know what to tell you. Have fun at grassroots(which totally dont ever have bad tournaments, no way).
here's some home work for you, quote me saying grass roots never runs into problems. Here's another assignment quote me saying the fgc should never give mlg another shot.

you aren't going to find either. What you will find is me questioning why some of the same people willing to go balls deep on KN give MLG. Pass for the same shit. At least I'm consistent. I've complained about KNs stream and I complained about the mlg stream. I'm going to be at CEO this week and if I have a shitty time, which I doubt, I'll complain about that.