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The Shang Tsung Video Vault

Belial

Kombatant
Those tier discussion are pathetic. Has ever been.

However Shang is definitely at the level of those characters.
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
Those tier discussion are pathetic. Has ever been.

However Shang is definitely at the level of those characters.
Regardless if established tournament players since day 1 don't agree, who have travelled across the country to play this game, he's top tier? Also, clearly looking at his tools isn't evidence enough either. So instead of giving me serious adult conversation reasons as to why he's top tier, you are overall saying he's top tier.......because Belial says so?

The evidence is kind of right in front of you isn't it?

Kabal: F3, 2, spin cancel is one of the best mixups in the game. Instant air fireballs are fantastic w/nearly no recovery. Groundsaw starts at ZERO frames (all his EX moves have armor too, let's throw that small detail in there). He can rush AND zone better than anybody. GREAT wakeup game

Cyrax: Does 58% as soon as he gets a net and has a million ways to land this.

Reptile: Excellent rushdown, best punisher in the game, builds meter insanely fast, great normals, hits for 37% nearly every hit. Oh yeah, another guy w/great wakeup game (You know, the whole elbow dash thing, it's kinda good)

KL: I won't even get into this, it's too easy

Raiden: Teleport is fantastic, superman is one of the best get off me moves in the game, VB builds meter like crazy and can get out of any situation.



You are right. Shang is CLEARLY on the same level as these guys. Stupid me
 

Belial

Kombatant
- Best mixup in the game
- best wallgame in the game
- very good wakeups
- top 2 pressure in the game, only second to Jhonny Cage
- Almost every combo is unbreakerable
- One of the best pokes in the game
- Very good zoning
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
- Best mixup in the game
- best wallgame in the game
- very good wakeups
- top 2 pressure in the game, only second to Jhonny Cage
- Almost every combo is unbreakerable
- One of the best pokes in the game
- Very good zoning
If you want people to take you seriously, you are going to have to do better than this. I literally have no idea what you are talking about in any of this post except for the JC reference

If you are saying Shang has better offensive pressure than Kabal/Reptile/Sonya/Scorpion/SZ/KL/Raiden/Mileena/Kitana........I don't know what else to say
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Nori, some of your statements don't make sense. You said that Shang only looks top tier because Valle and Ballin make him look that way. That is like saying that Sub Zero is not really top tier, it's just that Tom Brady is freakishly good. Valle and Ballin are using Shang close to his maximum potential- other people that are willing to put in the work (and not give up on him because he lacks a teleport or braindead easy mechanics) will be able to produce similar results. And yes, Shang has better pressure than Kitana, Sub-zero, Scorpion (lol), Sonya and Mileena. Shang can pressure from anywhere on the screen, and once he is in close, he gain so much frame advantage that even Kung Lao's spin will be shut down. He matches up well with most of the other top tier characters. His only really bad matchups are against Raiden, Csz and Kung Lao (although that will change after the patch). Every other matchup is more than winnable. I think that the reason we don't see Shang as much at higher levels is because he is not easy to pick up and play, and he does not have the lure of rediculous damage output. Nevertheless, Shang has the tools to lock almost every character in the game. And yes, I have been to multiple tournaments with Shang, so I am not theory fighting or going off of what I see online.
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
I had to do a double take when you said Scorpion (lol). Have you ever fought a good, competent Scorpion? His vortext pressure is stupid. And since when is Reptile not a bad matchup for him? or NW? Think you left off quite a few names on there. Shang does not have better tools or pressure than the chars I listed. And yes, Valle/DetroitBallin have a great understanding of this game and because they do so well, people drink the kool aid and think he's top. He's not. And no, SZ is not top tier either. Maybe after the patch, but now? No. And he has better pressure than Sonya? I can't even respond anymore because you have never ever fought a good Sonya if you are saying this, or don't understand the char at all. And LOL if you think KL will magically not be able to own Shang even after the patch. His spin is less safe, doesn't mean he can't stay in Shangs face all day.


I feel like I'm just bursting peoples dreams so I'll stop. If everybody wants to feel like the old man is top tier, more power to you. I picked him up day 1 and thought he was top tier also......until people figured out how to fight him.
 

Belial

Kombatant
Ok

- b+2~SS is 22% overhead with great position on block (small disadvantage and pushes opponent back into the jump range)
f+3~GS/f+3,4~SS are low with a frametrap on guard or low with same position on guard.
Both are b2+SS and f+3~GS are unbreakerable.
Both b+2 and f+3,4 advance forward which may evade crossover jumps.
Both b+2 and f+3 has alot of range.
This is best mixup in the game, hands down.

- Ending wallcombos with f434~US allow you to get a free wakeup on your opponent, even if he wake up atacks, you still can block it and have enough frame adv from US to continue the pressure, or apply the mixup above. This is best wallgame in the game.

- Ending certain juggles with US variations net you either same situation as near the wall, or if they Recovery Roll - a safe jump if they dont WKA.

- ST pressure is paritally described here http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?11101-shang-tsung-vs-kung-lao&p=160648&viewfull=1#post160648 it is roughly equivalent to JC pressure, but has more adv on guard and more options, but less guard damage.

- Do I have to explain why most of his combos are not breakerable? Ok, his skulls and Soul Steal cannot be broken. If you base your combos around this and pay attention to opp meter he cannot break at all. Combos starting off B+2, f+3~GS, f+4~GS are not breakerable AT ALL, leading to 22-29% w/o bar and ~36% unbreakerable, or 38% breakerable damage with bar (except b+2 of course which is always 22%, though you can do b+2~x ray for 38%).

- His 1 is very good and quick poke,
his d+1 and d+3 are both very quick, where d+3 lowers his hitbox and lead to a very good situations on hit (partially descirbed in the link I provided aboive)
his d+4 have a lot of frameadvantage on hit and leads to GS-trap on block
his f+4 is a quick poke (although lacking range) with frame adv on block.

- His zoning is obv pretty decent with a lot of options and frame traps. just to name a few
after US is blocked opponent cannot escape GS at all, he has to guard it.
after straight skull is blocked at full screen opponent cannot dash out of fGS, he has to jump (might be char dep though)
soul steal reach 3/4 screen, cannot be jumped on reaction (jump too early hit, jump too late hit) ducks under air projectiles, pushes back on block(only projectile with pushback on block, i guess), great position on guard.
EX soul steal has super armor.
Can juggle off his GS anywhere on the screen.

Any further arguement I am not going to adress. If my ST guide will see light it will all be covered there.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Most of what you described is generic: scorpion has his vortex against everyone, Shang is no different. A smart Scorpion won't even bother with this unless he is losing, because it is very risky. You seem to be downplaying Shang's offense. His frametraps are among the best in the game, and they all can be set up with a quick low poke. Once you have them blocking low, you have even more options with F+4,3,4 pressure. Sonya does not frametrap, she is a mixup and reset character. Furhtermore she has to take risks to get in, whereas Shang's zoning game risks almost nothing (unless you guess wrong). Lao's spin is not the issue (it is punishable), the main problem right now is his low hat pressure and at a distance. Once this is gone he will have to be random to get in, and even then he still has to be unsafe. You will never get me to buy that Ballin and Valle are just crazy good. They are great, but through that logic, they could pick Sheeva or Stryker and dominate just because of their skill. I assure you that won't happen simply because those characters do not have the tools. A character is only as good as the player: if you make bad reads you are going to lose. Shang has the tools to deal with anyone in the game (besides Raiden) and I challenge you to prove otherwise.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
Has any1 got any yt vids or archived streams of AV/ detroit or any other good shang players I can learn from? I watched detroit play him but that was before I picked up shang and now for some reason all of TDJ's vids are private and they don't have any archived streams.
 

Belial

Kombatant
I have his vids vs Sonya and Jhonny cage from some tournament downloaded. I can upload it if Detroit doesnt object.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Ballin- could you please explain the Kung Lao matchup? it seems like Shang does not have time to put projectiles on the screen because Lao can roll, teleport or divekick around them. I would really appreciate it if you could give us Shang players some tips.
 

Belial

Kombatant
TsungSupereme: Did you even check the neighbour thread? I gave pretty much all the tips you need in there.
 

DetroitBalln

tupac aint dead
Ballin- could you please explain the Kung Lao matchup? it seems like Shang does not have time to put projectiles on the screen because Lao can roll, teleport or divekick around them. I would really appreciate it if you could give us Shang players some tips.
Yea bro, when I have the time, I'll list everything you need to know about that match up.
 

DetroitBalln

tupac aint dead
wtf did just happen
Lol, I got more on the way man, hang in there. I have about 35-40 combos with him, some never seen before like the one above. Its about 15 minutes long. I might do a guide aswell later on, maybe after psn gets the patch :/
 

Marcus

Mortal Kombat Philippines / Injustice Philippines
Hope you win Devastation man! Cant wait to see Shang Tsung videos here
 

PunisherAlive

Apprentice
- Best mixup in the game
- best wallgame in the game
- very good wakeups
- top 2 pressure in the game, only second to Jhonny Cage
- Almost every combo is unbreakerable
- One of the best pokes in the game
- Very good zoning
Everyone with an armoured move can get around his zoning,

what good wakeups are you talking about?

Kabal/Jax pressure is better than kabals.
 

galindo

Apprentice
Very nice, are you going to tourney on Sunday? I wanna pick your brain on Shang, I've been playing him non-stop the last two weeks. The whoopin' you put on me inspired me to learn him :D
Yes sir I am going.

Im very conflicted though about who to use. I will most likely go with baraka again.
I really wanna use shanghai though, but I want to try to stay commuted for atleast one more tournament.

Hope to see ya there though!