Match-Up Discussion - Kitana The Royal Family - Match Up Discussion/Character Specific Strats

[Jimmypotato]

Updated some stuff from posts here and from the General discussion thread.

@Konqrr posted how to blow up Mileenas wake ups, that is awesome. I added the general notes and stuff you guys have put down.

Also added Khaotiks tip on punishing Sonyas arc Kick.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Can somebody give me some solid matchup advice for full auto Jacqui?

• you actually don't want to zone in this match up, simply inch in and crouch. Meter burn rockets are a mid so block that one.
• When in range simply jump in and do a jumping punch which on hit can land you a f+1,1,2 starter (Yay damage)
• If you have a life lead you can simply start throwing fans and ducking
• Good players will use a step in move, if you see jacqui doing a lunge move it's either an overhead or low. Armor can stuff it i'm just going to check what else can later.
• Rinse and repeat until jacqui realizes her "zoning"isn't going to work and force her to move in

 

[Konqrr]

Can somebody give me some solid matchup advice for full auto Jacqui?

If you are midscreen and are ducking gunshots and read that they will MB and do rockets, you can jump over it for a full combo. Not sure if you can do it on reaction as I've not played the MU much.

 

[Konqrr]

Kano matchup stuff... if you don't know how to deal with this, you WILL lose to it in touranment.

How to deal with Kano's b1:

I also play Sonya and she has counter, xray, and 7 frame d3 and standing 1 to deal with this while Kitana has 8 frame standing 1 and d1 so she can ONLY TRADE. Kitana has to use backdash (which is harder to time than it seems), or use armor. AND THIS IS AGAINST A PRIMARILY ZONING CHARACTER IN CYBERNETIC KANO ................... fml why can't Kitana have tools other than zoning, gimmicky float, and shitty unsafe strings? @colt plz ... this move should be -1 on block not 0

Watching Coach Steve blow up @Grr and @Sabin right now with this move on http://twitch.tv/teamsp00ky

@DanCock @RunwayMafia @xWildx @DarksydeDash @Xero_18 @Jimmypotato @GGA 16 Bit

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Hi, anyone got tips on fighting Mileena (Piercing)? Thanks!

If you ever played the mu in mk9. It's almost the same way. You can zone. But can't zone full out since she can teleport. But her teleport is punishable. So just be safe on your part. Throw a fan or two, then block and bait teleport or a roll. Then punish. Be patient, one Kitana combo is like 6 of millena sais lol

 

[Xero_18]

Kano matchup stuff... if you don't know how to deal with this, you WILL lose to it in touranment.

How to deal with Kano's b1:

I also play Sonya and she has counter, xray, and 7 frame d3 and standing 1 to deal with this while Kitana has 8 frame standing 1 and d1 so she can ONLY TRADE. Kitana has to use backdash (which is harder to time than it seems), or use armor. AND THIS IS AGAINST A PRIMARILY ZONING CHARACTER IN CYBERNETIC KANO ................... fml why can't Kitana have tools other than zoning, gimmicky float, and shitty unsafe strings? @colt plz ... this move should be -1 on block not 0

Watching Coach Steve blow up @Grr and @Sabin right now with this move on http://twitch.tv/teamsp00ky

@DanCock @RunwayMafia @xWildx @DarksydeDash @Xero_18 @Jimmypotato @GGA 16 Bit

I have some clippings of stuff versus Kotal Khan that I've been meaning to release but wouldn't B4 work also? What string is that?

EDIT:
I just went and tested it. It's good but not that good. Even at 0 Kitana still punishes him for trying to spam. According to the game frame data, his B1 is 9 on startup so anything less will beat it. Kitana's 1 is 8F startup so it's a one frame window to punish it. Yes I know it sucks but you can do 11 Lift F1 as an OS punish. In Mournful you could end the OS with glaive and be -3 on block at least and be safe. The best bet is to just backdash then punish.

 

[Xero_18]

I think the importance of neutral jump should be noted, especially in matchups such as Scorpion where she is almost safe from all his important zoning tools in inferno. Since she doesn't need to be up close and I would probably go as far as to suggest Mournful for this matchup. Since neutral jump is such a key element in this match fans won't do much as the angle you would use fans is also very susceptible to all three demons. At least with a good neutral jump you can throw a glaive and it goes down forward. Midscreen you can use shadow kick on reaction and punish Scorpion for trying to call demons in the first place then layer up with a glaive to make an approach as it'll stop teleport wakeups as it's also an OS after shadow kick. (Glaive comes out and recovers if they EX teleport they avoid the glaive but the registered dash after glaive turns into a back dash and all of the teleport whiffs allowing for you to punish).

 

[The Magician]

I think the importance of neutral jump should be noted, especially in matchups such as Scorpion where she is almost safe from all his important zoning tools in inferno. Since she doesn't need to be up close and I would probably go as far as to suggest Mournful for this matchup. Since neutral jump is such a key element in this match fans won't do much as the angle you would use fans is also very susceptible to all three demons. At least with a good neutral jump you can throw a glaive and it goes down forward. Midscreen you can use shadow kick on reaction and punish Scorpion for trying to call demons in the first place then layer up with a glaive to make an approach as it'll stop teleport wakeups as it's also an OS after shadow kick. (Glaive comes out and recovers if they EX teleport they avoid the glaive but the registered dash after glaive turns into a back dash and all of the teleport whiffs allowing for you to punish).

Scorpion really can't do anything to you besides spear on the ground, so your best bet is to just ground game and no air as he can just punish you with his tele in the air for a full combo. Also, wasn't mournful banned in one of the tournaments recently?

 

[Xero_18]

Scorpion really can't do anything to you besides spear on the ground, so your best bet is to just ground game and no air as he can just punish you with his tele in the air for a full combo. Also, wasn't mournful banned in one of the tournaments recently?

You're joking right? I just released the infinite Monday night/Tuesday morning how the hell was it banned already? Is there something else broke about this variation?

As for scorpion he can only air teleport to punish if you are being predictable. On the ground he is stronger for sure but can be ranged but he can also interrupt that with a well placed duck into minion.

 

[The Magician]

You're joking right? I just released the infinite Monday night/Tuesday morning how the hell was it banned already? Is there something else broke about this variation?

As for scorpion he can only air teleport to punish if you are being predictable. On the ground he is stronger for sure but can be ranged but he can also interrupt that with a well placed duck into minion.

Not sure, all I heard was that mournful was banned sometime on the NLBC stream.

I played a few decent scorpions in KOTH a few days ago. I could just run up to anything he did, not sure if it was just online delay so they couldn't do anything though. I'll have to play some better scorpions though and test out the ground-only game with IAFS of course.

 

[Xero_18]

Not sure, all I heard was that mournful was banned sometime on the NLBC stream.

I played a few decent scorpions in KOTH a few days ago. I could just run up to anything he did, not sure if it was just online delay so they couldn't do anything though. I'll have to play some better scorpions though and test out the ground-only game with IAFS of course.

In inferno if you're not already running you'll lose to minions. Low will grab you if you try to react and high will kick you in the face. Other than that Scorpion plays like he would in other variations

 

[Jaku2011]

Sub Zeros Ice clone tanking projectiles is dumb, what can Assasin do about him I feel like the only thing I can do as Kitana is guess with armor. Ferra/Torr doesn't have a problem with Grandmaster Sub so I'm kinda new to him just being an asshole with clone all day.

 

[Xero_18]

Sub Zeros Ice clone tanking projectiles is dumb, what can Assasin do about him I feel like the only thing I can do as Kitana is guess with armor. Ferra/Torr doesn't have a problem with Grandmaster Sub so I'm kinda new to him just being an asshole with clone all day.

He's not that strong. If up close and you have meter burn through it and stay on him. Slide is punishable as are all his other moves on block. From a distance be patient. Ice balls don't chip, watch for shattered and thrown ice clones and close the gap accordingly

 

[Jaku2011]

Sure slide is punishable, but that's not the problem. I burn my meter just getting to the guy now I'm in and he's got an overhead and a low starter as well as f4 and of course he can just cancel shit into clone. I'm day 2 on Kitana so ya I don't know the matchup super well but her buttons are ass from what I can tell and trades with fan are his favor, so I don't see her having the advantage anywhere.

 

[Xero_18]

You're gonna have to watch his movement on his moves. You don't need to burn meter from afar. Duck his ice ball then toss a fan and move in after it. When up close use your armored moves to get through ice when he tries to do something dumb. You're right fan trades are not in your favor. You do have to be patient at first. you can also play the patience game and wait him out if he's just trying to wait on the other side of the screen. Like I said ice balls don't chip and you can duck under them with the exception of his EX ice ball which hits mid. If you're in Royal Storm these can be reflected

 

[Jaku2011]

I think I just need to see a good Kitana vs a good grandmaster Sub. I'm getting it a bit better still feels like a super rough match.

 

[xKhaoTik]

so i was in the lab with Kenshi and trying to figure out some punishes with Kitana and found some very interesting things.

BALANCED:
-Spirit Push can be punished a variety of ways, with Ass or TS being the easiest way, and RC (run cancel) 111 being the most damaging yet hardest way. Spirit Charge is safe.
- I havent punished Telekinetic slice yet, so I think its safe. MB too.
- Tele Furry is safe. MB as well. Interesting fact on this move tho. She wins trades with fans, her 6% fans to his 5% fury (since it doesnt get a chance to finish). She can also throw a fan, and follow it up with Royal Storm's EX lift. She wins the trade since the tele furry doesnt get a chance to finish and she can run up and combo. This also works with the EX Furry as well. Tele Furry can be ducked and punished anywhere on the screen. From upclose to halfscreen, she can duck and punish with whatever she wants (has to run from halfscreen). Outside of halfscreen, she can duck and punish with ex lift, ex iaAss, either version of assassin strike, ex shadow kick, either version of glaive or any version of fan toss. You can also just simply run and grab
- Rising Karma can be punished with 11 string. EX Karma has to be punished by RC 11 string

POSSESSED:
-Both versions of sickle lift are safe.
-Both versions of Demon Assault can be punished by w.e you want. She also can do the same thing with the Tele Furry situation
-Soul Push can only be punished by d1 lol. EX is safe
His tele can be NJP'd or ex rising cutter. He is also punishable once he lands (if he doesnt land with a jump normal)
-Both versions of demonic slice is safe

KENJUTSU;
-Both Version of rising sword is punishable by 11 string
-Both versions of spinning blade can be punished by 11 string
-Both versions of Tele Slam are death on block
-Both versions of Push are safe
-Both versions of Toss can be punished by 11 or 21, but the pushback makes it impossible in some cases, so you best bet is ass, TS or shadow kick

 

[Jimmypotato]

so i was in the lab with Kenshi and trying to figure out some punishes with Kitana and found some very interesting things.

BALANCED:
-Spirit Push can be punished a variety of ways, with Ass or TS being the easiest way, and iJ2 and RC (run cancel) 111 being the most damaging yet hardest way. Spirit Charge is safe.
- I havent punished Telekinetic slice yet, so I think its safe. MB too.
- Tele Furry is death on block. She can punish with w.e she wants. MB as well. Interesting fact on this move tho. She wins trades with fans, her 6% fans to his 5% fury (since it doesnt get a chance to finish). She can also throw a fan, and follow it up with Royal Storm's EX lift. She wins the trade since the tele furry doesnt get a chance to finish and she can run up and combo. This also works with the EX Furry as well. Also, she can throw a fan, and just run throw the EX tele furry. The first two attacks hit her, but the rest of the move whiffs, leaving kenshi wide open for a combo.
- Rising Karma can be punished with 11 string and iJ2 at certain ranges. EX Karma has to be punished by RC 11 string

POSSESSED:
-Both versions of sickle lift can ONLY be punished by iJ2.
-Both versions of Demon Assault can be punished by w.e you want. She also can do the same thing with the Tele Furry situation
-Soul Push can only be punished by iJ2. EX is safe
His tele can be NJP'd. He is also punishable once he lands
-Both versions of demonic slice is safe

KENJUTSU;
-Both Version of rising sword is punishable by 11 string
-Both versions of spinning blade can be punished by 11 string
-Both versions of Tele Slam are death on block
-Both versions of Push can be punished by RC iJ2, but its not recommended due to how tight the window is for punish
-Both versions of Toss are death on block

And people say we don't work on our character, very nice, will be added to OP, thank you

Typed awesome to for easy copy paste!!

 

[Jimmypotato]

Updated Kenshi, please post in deadly point form like Khaotik. Please test things as well. I will sift through the conversations on page 2 this week and update after I look through and test things.

Keep up the good fight people!

 

[exflyingbooty]

fun fact: if scorpion is starting to summon stuff you can do assassin strike on reaction and catch him

 

[Rean]

fun stuff happens when you assassin strike into spear

 

[Konqrr]

Last post here was MAY 6th.... holy shit. Have we really all given up on trying to develop her? I sure as hell haven't. As much as I love Tanya and Sonya, Kitana will always be my main.

@xKhaoTik, you should update the Kenshi stuff you posted so it is current to the buffs he got.

Fighting a really good Scorpion is a HUGE pain in the ass. You literally can't throw fans or glaives from outside of jump distance. His d4 is like a Dhalsim limb kicking you out of everything you try. I did have success baiting wakeup EX Teleports and punishing with b14 for 41% meterless, but outside of that, he is very difficult to fight. Against the Hellfire RCs, if you make a read that they will go for the RC, you can unblock on the last hit before the RC and it will knock you down so you at least have options... if they read you will do this, they can Teleport and get a full combo. At least you have an option outside of letting them get the 15% chip and meter build. Against Inferno, you can neutral jump to avoid both the OH and Low minions or on a read of a low minion you can run in for a combo if you are not full screen. For this matchup (Inferno), I pick Tanya because you can instant Teleport on reaction to the OH/Low minion and get a full combo every time.

Don't try to uppercut Scorpion when he jumps. His JK is 5 frames and is hit confirmable to Teleport for a full combo. If you are just out of range of his JK, walk back a bit and use lift in Mournful or Assassin. Always be wary of them Teleporting to anything you try because you will get hit. If you try to hit him when he lands from a whiffed JK, don't because his d4 will duck under everything you have that is fast enough. You can stay just out of his footsie range and punish a whiffed d4 with TS or you can just throw out Fan-nado in Royal Storm as he lands to check him which opens up other options.

Kung Jin Bojutsu... you can punish EX Staff and Low Staff with ass or TS. Keep him out with fans, watch out for dive kicks over fans as they can get you pretty easily... but if you are playing smart, you can punish every jump with an air fan to 37% (AF, run~f43, f33~Fan, ff, f4~Lift, NJP, run~3~TS). Using 212~Fan is 100% safe and works REALLY WELL against him because of the pushback on 212... for some reason, different characters get pushed back further or shorter, Scorpion gets pushed back very short on 212.. weird.

Any time you use 212~Fan, if you read they will try to poke or start something after blocking it, you can EX TS and vs characters who don't have much range, you can check them with Fan-nado in Royal Storm or Staff Grab in Mournful.

 

[BloodyNights]

I play both Kitana(Royal/Assassin) and Scorpion (Inferno) as my mains, and I'll say this. Scorpion bodies Kitana free. From full screen he can literally jump back and fish for teleports against fan tosses. Midscreen on reaction to ground fans he can Slide take down through it and many of her longer range strings. His D4 will stuff just about anything she tries as well. This forces her to take to the skies, she actually wins the air to air. Her jump in is 5 frame start up, Scorpion's is 6 frame. Both lead to around the same damage unless Scorpion uses meter, though Scorpion's leads into a vortex situation as well.

Really the only way I see Kitana winning this match up is if the Scorpion player is incredibly sloppy. At a higher level this feels like a 7-3 to me. lol Tech against summoned demons is nice, but this isn't what will kill her.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Last post here was MAY 6th.... holy shit. Have we really all given up on trying to develop her? I sure as hell haven't. As much as I love Tanya and Sonya, Kitana will always be my main.

@xKhaoTik, you should update the Kenshi stuff you posted so it is current to the buffs he got.

Fighting a really good Scorpion is a HUGE pain in the ass. You literally can't throw fans or glaives from outside of jump distance. His d4 is like a Dhalsim limb kicking you out of everything you try. I did have success baiting wakeup EX Teleports and punishing with b14 for 41% meterless, but outside of that, he is very difficult to fight. Against the Hellfire RCs, if you make a read that they will go for the RC, you can unblock on the last hit before the RC and it will knock you down so you at least have options... if they read you will do this, they can Teleport and get a full combo. At least you have an option outside of letting them get the 15% chip and meter build. Against Inferno, you can neutral jump to avoid both the OH and Low minions or on a read of a low minion you can run in for a combo if you are not full screen. For this matchup (Inferno), I pick Tanya because you can instant Teleport on reaction to the OH/Low minion and get a full combo every time.

Don't try to uppercut Scorpion when he jumps. His JK is 5 frames and is hit confirmable to Teleport for a full combo. If you are just out of range of his JK, walk back a bit and use lift in Mournful or Assassin. Always be wary of them Teleporting to anything you try because you will get hit. If you try to hit him when he lands from a whiffed JK, don't because his d4 will duck under everything you have that is fast enough. You can stay just out of his footsie range and punish a whiffed d4 with TS or you can just throw out Fan-nado in Royal Storm as he lands to check him which opens up other options.

Kung Jin Bojutsu... you can punish EX Staff and Low Staff with ass or TS. Keep him out with fans, watch out for dive kicks over fans as they can get you pretty easily... but if you are playing smart, you can punish every jump with an air fan to 37% (AF, run~f43, f33~Fan, ff, f4~Lift, NJP, run~3~TS). Using 212~Fan is 100% safe and works REALLY WELL against him because of the pushback on 212... for some reason, different characters get pushed back further or shorter, Scorpion gets pushed back very short on 212.. weird.

Any time you use 212~Fan, if you read they will try to poke or start something after blocking it, you can EX TS and vs characters who don't have much range, you can check them with Fan-nado in Royal Storm or Staff Grab in Mournful.

I'll update it when I get a chance. I've been busy lately.

And Kitana can get 39% from Air fan. AF, f43x2, 3 fan, f4 lift, njp, run 3 TS. It's online friendly too.

Kung Jin is one of the few MUs Kitana has that I'm confident in. I have yet to lose a set to a KJ.

 

[16 Bit]

I got bodied by scorp when slips came to chicago last week. Brutal mu. Same problems you guys are describing. I guess it's karna after mk9 kit and selina beat up old Hanzo