Match-Up Discussion - Kitana The Royal Family - Match Up Discussion/Character Specific Strats

[OutworldKeith]

I'm not sure if this is already known but I figured I'd make a post about it anyway. All credit for this post goes to @OutworldKeith for bringing it to light over on the Scorpion board.

So here's the deal: apparently a select few characters can forward dash right through Mileena's Air Sai after a blocked Telekick. The original post made by OutworldKeith made mention that Kitana was one of the lucky few. After having learned this, I was off to the lab and made a few videos showcasing this tech.

This first video shows blocking the Telekick and Air Sai followup both high and low. Then, I show that the window to punish a blocked Telekick with standing 1 is pretty tight. It can be done, but it sucks losing out on a full punish. After that, we see what happens when you forward dash after blocking the Telekick.

This video shows that forward dash still works even if the Mileena player decides to use EX Air Sai. The only difference here however, is you must hold down to duck the second sai IF and only if you block the Telekick high. You can still full combo punish if you duck. If you block the Telekick low, just dash as normal.

Dashing after a blocked EX Telekick is a bit different. If you dash immediately after blocking, the Air Sai will catch you, as seen here twice. However, if you delay the dash by a few frames, you'll still go under it. The timing is a bit strict, and I found that you get more leniency if you are in back stance opposed to front stance, for whatever reason.

Finally, just a short video showcasing that you have much, much more advantage and options to punish after dashing than if you simply punished a Telekick with 111 or 21.

Hope you guys find this useful.

Thank you for taking time out to make the videos so the kommunity can see this!

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Still don't know what's her best way to punish liu kangs bycicle kick? Also her fastest pressure and punish combo is 1,1 right?

 

[OutworldKeith]

@Rozalin1780 im curious to know how this affects the Mileena MU. Telekick xx Sai is a cheap/safe way for Mileena to get in for free. I'm assuming it will give Kitana more room to throw fans safely?

Maybe forces her to play footies? Not like she's hurting for Footsies tools cough* b12

 

[Rozalin1780]

@Rozalin1780 im curious to know how this affects the Mileena MU. Telekick xx Sai is a cheap/safe way for Mileena to get in for free. I'm assuming it will give Kitana more room to throw fans safely?

Maybe forces her to play footies? Not like she's hurting for Footsies tools cough* b12

Most of the more seasoned Kitana players believe Mileena is a 5-5 match-up. I don't see this tech tipping the scales. However, I personally struggle against her. Finding tech that results in a risk free punish that also has higher damage potential is a plus in my book.

A lot of the time, Mileena players play it safe. They check you with low sai while buffering telekick in case you jump. Once you are at mid-range, it becomes a big mind/footsies game where mistakes pay a heavy price for either player. B12 has the range and the speed, but Kitana can parry it.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

@Rozalin1780 im curious to know how this affects the Mileena MU. Telekick xx Sai is a cheap/safe way for Mileena to get in for free. I'm assuming it will give Kitana more room to throw fans safely?

Maybe forces her to play footies? Not like she's hurting for Footsies tools cough* b12

So can you not punish telekick xx sai?

 

[Rozalin1780]

So can you not punish telekick xx sai?

Any character can to some degree. The sai serves as a way to possibly stuff a punish and/or minimize the incoming punish. Pretty sure anyone can D2 after Telekick (hardly optimal, but still a punish). Other than that, you need a quick jab combo starter.

Or be one of the lucky few who can just forward dash the sai.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Any character can to some degree. The sai serves as a way to possibly stuff a punish and/or minimize the incoming punish. Pretty sure anyone can D2 after Telekick (hardly optimal, but still a punish). Other than that, you need a quick jab combo starter.

Or be one of the lucky few who can just forward dash the sai.

So a quick jab combo starter in the case of Kitana would be 1,1, correct? That's her fastest starter/punish/poke?

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

@Rozalin1780 @ILuvFightGames
Try d1 fan combo to punish telekick. It's guaranteed whether Mileena throws air sai or not:
d1 fan, jump kick fan, dash forward F43, 21 lift, njp, f4 throat
I remeber this does 31% in Assasin. My optimized 111 fan combo does 30% (similar as above, just replace d1 with 111). So she got more damage from d1 punisher this way

 

[ILuvFightGames]

Against liu kang since he has low/overhead mixups what's the best way of blocking if he's pressuring or doing 50/50's on you? What I mean is that as a general rule do I block low or high against him?

 

[ABake]

Against liu kang since he has low/overhead mixups what's the best way of blocking if he's pressuring or doing 50/50's on you? What I mean is that as a general rule do I block low or high against him?

He has 0 overhead starters. I find that if you always block low against LK and then stand block after the first hit, you're likely going to be fine. Kang does have a OH special, but that's reactable IMO.
As far as punishing him, that's another story, most his strings are safe or +. I usually try for throws after his bicycle kick or his low starting string (don't know the notations). I've also noticed Kang players like to d3 after most of his safe strings/special. 9/10 those players are standing up and going into a string right after. There's your chance to punish with 111.

 

[ILuvFightGames]

He has 0 overhead starters. I find that if you always block low against LK and then stand block after the first hit, you're likely going to be fine. Kang does have a OH special, but that's reactable IMO.
As far as punishing him, that's another story, most his strings are safe or +. I usually try for throws after his bicycle kick or his low starting string (don't know the notations). I've also noticed Kang players like to d3 after most of his safe strings/special. 9/10 those players are standing up and going into a string right after. There's your chance to punish with 111.

This is exactly what I needed to know, I guess my question was should I block low or high when he's starting his strings, you definetely cleared that up for me. Yea I've seem matches where people block low then block high and manage to block all his strings, you made me realize why, thanks again bro. And I'm guessing Kitana's 111 is her fastest punish right? But wouldn't 11 also work? But I'm guessing since you already landed the first 1 then why not do two more 1's instead of just one more 1 correct?

 

[ABake]

This is exactly what I needed to know, I guess my question was should I block low or high when he's starting his strings, you definetely cleared that up for me. Yea I've seem matches where people block low then block high and manage to block all his strings, you made me realize why, thanks again bro. And I'm guessing Kitana's 111 is her fastest punish right? But wouldn't 11 also work? But I'm guessing since you already landed the first 1 then why not do two more 1's instead of just one more 1 correct?

This is exactly what I needed to know, I guess my question was should I block low or high when he's starting his strings, you definetely cleared that up for me. Yea I've seem matches where people block low then block high and manage to block all his strings, you made me realize why, thanks again bro. And I'm guessing Kitana's 111 is her fastest punish right? But wouldn't 11 also work? But I'm guessing since you already landed the first 1 then why not do two more 1's instead of just one more 1 correct?

Yeah, if you've confirmed the first hit, might as well do all 3 into fans. But yes, 111 is her fastest punish and your best friend at 8f and I think -5 or -6 on block. 21(2) is another good one at 9f and +2 on block, especially if you're just out of 111 range.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Kang does have a OH special, but that's reactable IMO.

I want to correct you a bit here. It's not his special, his B2 and dragon roar have very similar animation. His B2 is a 14f overhead (unreactable) but it's -11 on block, does 7% and knock down. His dragon roar is a safe 18f mid special

 

[ABake]

I want to correct you a bit here. It's not his special, his B2 and dragon roar have very similar animation. His B2 is a 14f overhead (unreactable) but it's -11 on block, does 7% and knock down. His dragon roar is a safe 18f mid special

Right on.

 

[anTi_air_chrisT]

I think he meant MB Bicycle Kick.

 

[Madog32]

Any tips/tricks for Acidic Alien particularly as Assasin? She doesn't really have a full screen presence, and his DoT forces her to come in at some point since he can throw a puddle under her feet full screen and just wait. Or just crawl in.

But particularly, his D4 is an issue. the range is far greater than any normal she has. Other than a yolo TS (which can also often be beaten out by Aliens D4 if it wasn't armored...or easily baited after landing 1 or 2) I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to get in on this character without spending meter. No jump attack from Kitana will land on an alien doing D4 correctly. D4 will beat every jump punch/kick she's got. I was able to land maybe a handful of JI4's during a ~50 game set over the weekend, but after taking Alien to the lab, I'm confident any player who spends 3 minutes practicing it can AA every one of Kitanas jump attacks 99% of the time with D4. A jump in into a float over his head will cause his D4 to whiff at best, but he'll have plenty of time to recover and block before anything you can follow it up with. Jump in into Float~4 for the block advantage is the best thing I've been able to come up with, but its not nearly enough. My game plan has basically been reduced to sharpens and armored Dashes just to try to get the life lead, with some yolo TS just to try to get past the D4.

I could easily be missing something here, but without being able to jump in at all, and lack of normals long enough to reach him, I'm having quite some difficulty playing any sort of game against alien other than armoring everything I do.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Any tips/tricks for Acidic Alien particularly as Assasin? She doesn't really have a full screen presence, and his DoT forces her to come in at some point since he can throw a puddle under her feet full screen and just wait. Or just crawl in.

But particularly, his D4 is an issue. the range is far greater than any normal she has. Other than a yolo TS (which can also often be beaten out by Aliens D4 if it wasn't armored...or easily baited after landing 1 or 2) I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to get in on this character without spending meter. No jump attack from Kitana will land on an alien doing D4 correctly. D4 will beat every jump punch/kick she's got. I was able to land maybe a handful of JI4's during a ~50 game set over the weekend, but after taking Alien to the lab, I'm confident any player who spends 3 minutes practicing it can AA every one of Kitanas jump attacks 99% of the time with D4. A jump in into a float over his head will cause his D4 to whiff at best, but he'll have plenty of time to recover and block before anything you can follow it up with. Jump in into Float~4 for the block advantage is the best thing I've been able to come up with, but its not nearly enough. My game plan has basically been reduced to sharpens and armored Dashes just to try to get the life lead, with some yolo TS just to try to get past the D4.

I could easily be missing something here, but without being able to jump in at all, and lack of normals long enough to reach him, I'm having quite some difficulty playing any sort of game against alien other than armoring everything I do.

Matchups like this is why we need Royal Storm lift you know. I don't want to pick Kitana against Alien anyway
Edit: I think his D4 is punishable by her throat slice

 

[Madog32]

Matchups like this is why we need Royal Storm lift you know. I don't want to pick Kitana against Alien anyway
Edit: I think his D4 is punishable by her throat slice

ya - tho I specifically came back to use Assassin. I had my fun with royal storm already but lost interest in the character/game. The buffs to assassin got me interested in coming back to check it out. Guess it's just my luck my training partner would choose to learn Acidic Alien at the same time...

 

[Cashual]

This thread is so dead. What happened to the kitana community? For a character that has such high level representation, damn sure no one other than @xKhaoTik cares to help the scrub brethren level up.

I'm lost against reptile. Any general suggestions?

 

[ABake]

This thread is so dead. What happened to the kitana community? For a character that has such high level representation, damn sure no one other than @xKhaoTik cares to help the scrub brethren level up.

I'm lost against reptile. Any general suggestions?

anyone with a low-pro slide/ball roll specials is going to prove difficult for Kit. What I do in those MU's is bait said specials, with either 3/4 screen quick ducks (doing this will make it appear as if you may throw a fan) or fan-nado's (this pulls Sub right out of his slide for a full combo punish, I'd assume the same applies for reptile). Other than that, you have to play fair against these chars, especially Reptile. Too many mixups and zoning doesn't work the way it does against a larger portion of the cast. Knowing those mix ups and understanding your opponent will be your best bet.

 

[Cashual]

Thank you man, I appreciate the feedback. I've been throwing fans, and when they start to slide, I then mix in the fannado. I like throwing one fan, which they key in on, anticipate another fan, and instead it's a nado.

When reptile gets in on me though and gets the mix going, well good games. I just need to grind the matchup and punish the b1d4 every time I see it. At least the low there is reachable.

 

[ABake]

Thank you man, I appreciate the feedback. I've been throwing fans, and when they start to slide, I then mix in the fannado. I like throwing one fan, which they key in on, anticipate another fan, and instead it's a nado.

When reptile gets in on me though and gets the mix going, well good games. I just need to grind the matchup and punish the b1d4 every time I see it. At least the low there is reachable.

Yeah, man. Not much you can do when heavy mix characters get in on Kit. She doesn't have to tools to compete that close.
Use d1~RF for footsies against those types and always stay d1 range or farther away as much as you can.

 

[ABake]

If anybody still pays attention to this thread-

Does anybody have any Jason specific strat? Or does anybody know why the hell her DP pushes Jason too far back to float pressure?

 

[Cashual]

If anybody still pays attention to this thread-

Does anybody have any Jason specific strat? Or does anybody know why the hell her DP pushes Jason too far back to float pressure?

He's just one of the matchups where the float pressure isn't an option there's a few other characters out there with the same issue.

Which Jason are you struggling with? I grew up slashers. The other two are tough

 

[ABake]

He's just one of the matchups where the float pressure isn't an option there's a few other characters out there with the same issue.

Which Jason are you struggling with? I grew up slashers. The other two are tough

Relentless. Red screen and that damage buff bone me.