The Princess Needs Help 2.0

[Edmund]

I’d rather they start small with Kitana Buffs, but I want them to make it feel like Kitana again.

 

[Error404]

I'm down for fan combos mid-screen and amp fan hitting mid , but that's it.

 

[xKhaoTik]

i

never said jacqui 11 is broken , jacqui is broken period look at tourney results if you want to talk about credibility you just lost all yours with the buff your askings.

a d3 6 frames lol

Yup because Jacqui is out here winning tourney after tourney right?

Yet nearly everyone in here agrees with the buffs for the most part.

Crickets on your end tho. I can’t even say it was a nice attempt

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Yup because Jacqui is out here winning tourney after tourney right?

Yet nearly everyone in here agrees with the buffs for the most part.

Crickets on your end tho. I can’t even say it was a nice attempt

Pause.
Jacqui IS broke

 

[Moms4lif3]

At first glance I thought kitana was really solid and like good mid tier, but after playing her for a while she always felt kinda sluggish to me :/ she just doesn’t feel graceful and agile, isn’t that was she’s supposed to be like?

At the moment I feel like she’s probably in the bottom 10 characters. Definitely stronger than some, but also there is no real point in playing her, because a lot of characters who offer similar playstyle are flat out better than her. Kinda disappointing.

 

[Rozalin1780]

First thing is first; the hitbox issues need to be addressed for every character. This alone will shift balance all over the place. Talking Kitana specifically, she would be able to FB U2 punish like the majority of the cast can. As it currently stands, she might as well not even have the ability to FB U2 in the same vein that Johnny Cage might as well not have Krushing Blows.

But in doing so, by fixing these issues across the board, Kitana would lose a lot in her ability to low profile and punish many things that other characters cannot. Frost would immediately become even instead of favorable for example. Jax would become the nightmare up close he is for everyone currently not small female.

There are pros and cons to hitbox fixes across the board in the context that we’re talking about Kitana here. I 100% feel they should ALL be addressed. Mids should be mids, not mids that are sometimes highs.

Anywho...

These absolutely need to happen:

• forward hitbox increase on U2
• buff duration on royal protection increased
• edenian razors normalized regardless of which side of the screen you’re on
• gutted KB requirements made easier. 3 gutted in a match/round is perfectly reasonable for a 1 time mid screen damage increase
• Amp Fan Toss is back to being a mid
• Anti air Fan Tosses can lead to conversions. Kitana isn’t Kitana without this.

Any other buffs, while welcome, should be carefully considered. I agree with the mentality that dumb characters should be made less dumb, not honest characters be made dumb.

 

[Repraved]

I just need to remind everyone of the most frustrating thing. When your b231 hits a genius jumping, and as a reward you are forced to watch Kitana finish the string like a deer in headlights, knowing well that this guy will get up first and hand you your prize. This being addressed at all would be nice.

I'd like to see if any universal changes are in store. I think the thing about Kitana that has been known for a while is that she isn't really a bad character, but she has nothing really dangerous. This makes her an OK lower end character. Bottom mid/most solid low. People can up play her due to seeing her highest potential, but downplaying is kind of frowned upon because she is technically solid.

-Keep her DMG, just make her Fans a bit more dangerous. As someone said, there is no reason a character like Baraka outzones her, and I can't help but think this wasn't intended.
-Royal Protection is just poorly designed. Adjust it.

I'd like to see the Mileena variation get some love too. But these are the things I would say are the must haves for my taste. I'd like better frames and walkspeed as much as the next guy, but anything else is really a bonus.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Pause.
Jacqui IS broke

Yes, but let me win my argument dammit lol

 

[SaSSolino]

I'm no Kitana expert by any means, I've just played her for my Shang Tsung training. That said she never felt weak to me, and her stagger game is fire!

I agree on hitbox fixes, but she seems fine otherwise.

 

[deathstroke187]

she also low profile a lot of shit like sonya b1 on block and comboing her is harder for certain character like Sonya bnb for example. she is the cat woman of this game plus she does big damage meeterless.

 

[xKhaoTik]

she also low profile a lot of shit like sonya b1 on block and comboing her is harder for certain character like Sonya bnb for example. she is the cat woman of this game plus she does big damage meeterless.

Yup because 25% is some big damage buddy

 

[John Grizzly]

It's really not.
Kitana IS Fan Combos.
It's her thing.
Scorpion is Spear.
Raiden is Lightning.
Meat is made of meat.
Kitana should have Fan Combos.

100% accurate.

And to be fair, NO ONE has fun combos in this damn game aside from maybe Geras.

It's the absolute #1 reason I don't find it nearly as fun as MKX.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

100% accurate.

And to be fair, NO ONE has fun combos in this damn game aside from maybe Geras.

It's the absolute #1 reason I don't find it nearly as fun as MKX.

Kabal does.
It's why I've managed to stay stuck to one character for most of this whole time.
Especially when you go from little to big and start hitting the Dash D1 Dash 23 Spin?
Or when you hit a fullscreen wheel and you follow up with the Dash and it actually gets there in time?
Sheeeeeeit.

That would be my recommendation to anyone missing Klassic Kitty to try and get those feels back: if you haven't tried Kabal yet, give him a spin.

 

[xKhaoTik]

if you haven't tried Kabal yet, give him a spin.

Pun game strong

 

[Moms4lif3]

I'm no Kitana expert by any means, I've just played her for my Shang Tsung training. That said she never felt weak to me, and her stagger game is fire!

I agree on hitbox fixes, but she seems fine otherwise.

How exactly is her stagger game ‘fire’? She has some ok staggers, but actually most of her strings are not that great on block.

B2 is 0 on block, but also 17f start up.
B1 is -4, 13f startup
S1 is -4, 8 frames startup
-> nothing too fancy here

B13 is -5, B14 -7, B142 -4
B231 is -5 and a dial up string, therefore death on whiff

I’m sorry I don’t really see anything that qualifies as fire here dude.

 

[SaSSolino]

How exactly is her stagger game ‘fire’? She has some ok staggers, but actually most of her strings are not that great on block.

B2 is 0 on block, but also 17f start up.
B1 is -4, 13f startup
S1 is -4, 8 frames startup
-> nothing too fancy here

B13 is -5, B14 -7, B142 -4
B231 is -5 and a dial up string, therefore death on whiff

I’m sorry I don’t really see anything that qualifies as fire here dude.

b2 might be 17f startup, but the range is massive considering its 0 block.
b231 is a great stagger because you have the threat of the KB.

b1 by itself is decent, same with b14, b142 and b13. Nothing exceptional, but as long as you don't abuse them they can get results.
b131 also leaves the opponent exactly at b2 range, meaning the opponent needs to respect that option.

Finally when you add Mileena's stance cancels to the mix it becomes really hard to deal it. Don't use s1 though, that one's ass.

 

[gitblame]

It's not about frame data. Is about how "seeable" they are, block reaction and conditioning. Reptile F41 was -5 and it was a goat stagger. Green Lantern B1 was -11 and it was legit stagger too.
Kitana's staggers are kinda ass besides except mindgames on B13 and B131 string. You can literally see her cutting string off and react accordingly before block stun is over. Besides playing around flawless block gap in B131 her best staggering move for me is her B3. But range and speed kinda cuts its utility in large margin.

 

[hatyr]

Did I mention we're negative on everything and have the worst d3 in the game?

Now, now... the worst d3 in the game is unequivocally owned by Skarlet.

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

Her staggers are better than laos. Having okay staggers are a privilege. She has 17 strings and only 2 of them are in the low teens of minus on block. This isnt mkx shes supposed to stagger and grab. Also has very viable krushing blows.....

 

[John Grizzly]

Kabal does.
It's why I've managed to stay stuck to one character for most of this whole time.
Especially when you go from little to big and start hitting the Dash D1 Dash 23 Spin?
Or when you hit a fullscreen wheel and you follow up with the Dash and it actually gets there in time?
Sheeeeeeit.

That would be my recommendation to anyone missing Klassic Kitty to try and get those feels back: if you haven't tried Kabal yet, give him a spin.

I've tried Kabal. His combos seem incredibly neutered, as well.

Honestly, Shao Kahn is the only character I even remotely enjoy playing in this game and I'm praying one of the DLC characters come along that click with me (I'm looking at you, Nightwolf).

 

[Moms4lif3]

b2 might be 17f startup, but the range is massive considering its 0 block.
b231 is a great stagger because you have the threat of the KB.

B2 has good range, yes, but what can you do with it by itself? Stagger it once and then maybe go for d3 or throw...?

The krushing blow is no threat at all since you can block it on reaction at 27 frames, or simply interrupt it with any d1 and it’s also -17 on block; using it against good players is asking to get bodied. The payout is not even that good tbh.

The string ain’t all that, only the first hit is good, even though slow. If you go for the whole string against airborne opponents, the first hit might connect and the rest doesn’t: you get bodied, yet again. Nice.

 

[Juxtapose]

I personally really like how NetherRealm is taking their time with balancing this time around, as it's allowing people to really figure things out instead of just knee jerk reacting.

I've posted in another threat that I remember they were very specific about their design direction for this game as well: That it would be a more defensive-based, execution oriented, non-kombo-centric game compared to the previous entry in the franchise. I recall in one of the streams 16-Bit mentioning that generally, you can expect kombos to be in the high teens to low twenties without Gauge being used in this game.

Generally, it seems they did a good job with this goal and many characters are around the mark, but there's several who have vastly overreached past it.

I'm hoping they stick to their design goals and normalize the characters that are "too strong," and do frame data changes and adjustments to other characters to balance them better; basically minor and more graduated changes as opposed to sweeping ones.

This is outside of bug fixes, of course.

Having said all that, if they do end up buffing the Princess like crazy, I wouldn't argue .

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Her staggers are better than laos. Having okay staggers are a privilege. She has 17 strings and only 2 of them are in the low teens of minus on block. This isnt mkx shes supposed to stagger and grab. Also has very viable krushing blows.....

I think Kitana has good staggers but let's not get crazy.

Kung Lao easily has better staggers. Because he can actually hitconfirm into way more damage than her, he has faster mids, good d3, the threat of his grab is way scarier since he actually has a krushing blow. In fact, I think Kung Lao is a better Kitana.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Her staggers are better than laos. Having okay staggers are a privilege. She has 17 strings and only 2 of them are in the low teens of minus on block. This isnt mkx shes supposed to stagger and grab. Also has very viable krushing blows.....

Let’s relax with this one. Kung Lao’s staggers are great.

 

[HiddenSelectCounterPick]

Stagger* he only has F1 not staggers.

F1 is -5 on block only 18 hit adv. F2 will only hit if you dash but once you dash your losing your hit adv for F2 so you better be in the corner. Unless its a god read you're only gonna get spin and if that happens you better have a bar..... Foxy didnt even use it...Shes fine seriously. Just havent seen top players use her because they are all playing to win not have fun.

F4 has long start up