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THE OFFICIAL MK11 COMPLAINT/RANT THREAD

He's interesting as hell. Sand + time combo, aesthetic, characterization - all great.

A grappler with autopilot KBs, built in top 10 if not top 5 combo damage, 6f D1, little to no unsafe anything, multiple ways for easy oki, constant presence at all distances, built-in anti-zoning, borderline un-anti-airable air normals, and good mids is not good design. It's shit design plain and simple. Literally the only thing he isnt great at is staggers, but he has a 6f D1 and a command grab to make up for that easily.

He's a mindless neanderthal of a character as he struggles at nothing and excels at multiple things. It's just fucking stupid.
To be honest, I can't believe people are still complaining about this neutered character. Geras is fine. He's gotten a lot of nerfs since day 1, he's now a good character that is fun to play but isn't over the top.
Hard to have a legitimate conversation without anyone getting in there bias feelings.
This is probably why no one will bother to go into it with you in any real detail. Your mind is already made up, and no matter what anyone says you will never even consider changing your opinion. Lao is fine. Why is he fine/what makes him good? There is no point in even going into it because you will just dismiss it all without consideration.
 
I think the community has a gag order on Lao. They say he’s top five so nrs won’t fix him. I mean seriously. The dude has had the worst frame data since day one and still does. They only put him in top-five because of one move. Orbital hat, that’s it. So you mean to tell me a character with poor frame data gets into top-five because of one custom move. If that’s the case it’s the best custom move in a game by their logic.But they won’t admit it. That’s why I don’t understand, why Talk so much bullshit about lao but you have a character like the liu kang who has far more mixups pressure and staggers and he has a better teleport then lao as well and a throw loop he doesn't need because liu players never use it, but let's get rid of Laos instead! Smh. so you know it’s whatever I’m just waiting on MK 12 at this point.
Just wanna add some stuff to your list

lao has all of like 3 staggers, d1 , or d3 into orb hat are flawless blockable, d4 into orb hat can whiff sometimes, f13 into orb hat completely misses on most of the cast, orb hat has 15 hit advantage meaning 1 frame link to f4. if they would've added 1 more frame of hit advantage we could hit f4 more constantly (like mkx lao) if orb hat cost a wake up why can't I do my most damaging string ??, f12 u2 just misses entirely, lao has some of the worst movement in the game (like seriously why does liu have better movement), one of the worst teleports in the game, nrs still hasn't fixed 212, you can still jump out of b 321, buzz saw pressure is pretty lame since you only get 1 rep and buzz saw is also punishable by some characters, air tele hat possession and vortex are all trash, fatal blow still let's people fall out of your combo ( like old kotal fatal blow). So yah the only reason why people like saying he is top its because his jump 3 and d3..... oh yah and dive kick kb
Wow
 

just_2swift

King of Edenia.
To be honest, I can't believe people are still complaining about this neutered character. Geras is fine. He's gotten a lot of nerfs since day 1, he's now a good character that is fun to play but isn't over the top.


This is probably why no one will bother to go into it with you in any real detail. Your mind is already made up, and no matter what anyone says you will never even consider changing your opinion. Lao is fine. Why is he fine/what makes him good? There is no point in even going into it because you will just dismiss it all without consideration.
You too huh just not going to read nothing I said just jump to conclusions "lao is fine". All he did was prove my point on the fact that lao is ONLY viable with orbital hat. For the fujin argument fujin has more than ONE tool to circumvent his piss poor frame lao does not. Smh
 

just_2swift

King of Edenia.
Just wanna add some stuff to your list

lao has all of like 3 staggers, d1 , or d3 into orb hat are flawless blockable, d4 into orb hat can whiff sometimes, f13 into orb hat completely misses on most of the cast, orb hat has 15 hit advantage meaning 1 frame link to f4. if they would've added 1 more frame of hit advantage we could hit f4 more constantly (like mkx lao) if orb hat cost a wake up why can't I do my most damaging string ??, f12 u2 just misses entirely, lao has some of the worst movement in the game (like seriously why does liu have better movement), one of the worst teleports in the game, nrs still hasn't fixed 212, you can still jump out of b 321, buzz saw pressure is pretty lame since you only get 1 rep and buzz saw is also punishable by some characters, air tele hat possession and vortex are all trash, fatal blow still let's people fall out of your combo ( like old kotal fatal blow). So yah the only reason why people like saying he is top its because his jump 3 and d3..... oh yah and dive kick kb
Wow
Man fools out here saying he's top 3 in the game. Lao is 15 range at best mid tier. orbital hat barley cracks him into top 10 at 10.
 

Yousef

Noob
I've been out the game for some time now I came back and I was disappointed
Some of you might remember me from my JC threads and always that I'm stupid .... I was stupid

I'm disappointed because they didn't fix most of the things instead they brought up more annoying things to this game

They made some characters literally unbearable with custom variation and I know that'll never get fixed , but it did make the alittle fun

After all that I just have one request
Remove poke into SM from the game or make it use more resources especially if it's safe that's all
 
I've been out the game for some time now I came back and I was disappointed
Some of you might remember me from my JC threads and always that I'm stupid .... I was stupid

I'm disappointed because they didn't fix most of the things instead they brought up more annoying things to this game

They made some characters literally unbearable with custom variation and I know that'll never get fixed , but it did make the alittle fun

After all that I just have one request
Remove poke into SM from the game or make it use more resources especially if it's safe that's all
whats sm ?
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I've been off the game for awhile now and I've kinda dipped on the community but I still linger, maybe cause I'm hoping somehow to get my passion back for this again. I still like to listen to podcasts and discussions about the game, and in doing so I just can't help but be frustrated lol.

The current talking point really seems to be, the problem of people who have legit criticisms about MK11 versus people who just hate the game cause they suck at fighting games and will always bitch. I hate a lot of the dialogue around this topic, because it's like, NRS should be smart enough and informed enough to know who is a salty dumbass and who isn't. There is a lot of attempts to COMPLETELY absolve NRS of any responsibility with this shit here and it's very irritating to watch. Obviously there's salty people who will never be happy with anything if it isn't involving their character getting buffed to high heaven and results in them getting free wins, but it should be a pretty big judgement on NRS that they are theoretically not able to discern between the two.

Here's the thing, there are several criticisms of this game that have been consistent even from the fucking beta that NRS has refused to address in any kind of impactful meaningful way.

1: Breakaway does not carry sufficient risk for what it gives you. We've all been saying since day one, if you weren't gonna remove this, you should be absolutely able to murder somebody for having the read on a breakaway. Getting to escape a combo, the penalty for a really bad error in the scope of a fighting game, is a HUGE reward. The fact NRS's only response to this was a half assed clearly untested measure that isn't equally accessible to everyone in a combo situation and is also extremely imbalanced in it's reward is absurd to me and I think to many others. For the record, in my world, everyone would get full combos for reading breakaways. You should explode.

2: The wakeup system also gives too many options at not enough risk for the situation you're putting your opponent in. It is universally considered and has been since the beta that people have too much power for being knocked down. This is a concern NRS just doesn't want to address. I really think a lot of the problems with this system could be solved by simply giving you something like a 25% damage bonus for whiff/block punishing a roll or an U2 or U3, or you create KB's that will work every single time on a roll/wakeup attack.

3: Fatal blow, and how particularly full screen fatal blows completely shut down the game in a lot of cases and give the loser an inordinate amount of power that completely slides the decision making power completely in their favor. This CONSISTENTLY is leading to a completely unsatisfying end user experience, it's a simultaneous button input for unbreakable armored usually fast as fuck 32% minimum, 40+ off any string usually, with no execution requirement so you might screw it up in the clutch. Fatal blow, even when it isn't one of the full screen ones, FUNDAMENTALLY changes the very nature of the game and how it's played AND it comes back after 10 seconds if you weren't successful the first time? I mean, I think everyone knew to begin with that if they had done any sort of testing, that armor startup at launch would not have been what it was.

4: Anti airs are almost non-existent still, but the anti airs that do exist almost entirely shut down jumping even in situations where traditionally the opponent would get a jump in for conditioning you appropriately in neutral. Not enough of a middle ground here. Things like low profiling crouch poke anti airs should not exist because they allow you to make mistakes in neutral and STILL get the anti air.

I and many others have suggested many fixes of these, but all of this has been met with everything from the shallow "stop crying" defense to the obscenely delusional "you want the game to be something entirely different" even though no one is trying to just get these mechanics altogether removed. Well, I HAVE said Breakaway should be removed but like, if we have to deal with it, giving it more severe consequences if read doesn't make the game not MK11.

I also think this points to the real main root of MK11 is that the game just seems designed to always keep the loser competitive, not even mentioning things like how flawless blocking in it's current implementation literally makes it so there is no such thing as a bad decision on block in theory which also means the strategy of the game becomes significantly diminished. It's not only boring and shallow, the GAME, not essentially the player, is constantly feeding the guy at disadvantage every option in the world. The game has no gradient of consequence. This makes the game unsatisfying even when you're winning in most cases. I feel like this entire aspect of the games philosophy is just super downplayed right now. I don't think this has to be what defines MK11, but a lot of people seem to like this about the game which is discouraging. This IS MK11 to them.

Also the myriad of whiffing issues, a thing NRS just can't seem to overcome but I feel like it's really bad in this game and inexcusable just because of time and place. Half or more of the casts jab fucking whiff on a crouching Johnny. How can you make the argument NRS actually gives a shit when things like this are still around?

Sorry, I'm rambling and up late. I just wanted to type lol. This isn't even discussing how bad the games single player content and structure is or how this game was actually stifled by NRS's definition of supporting it (they're actually bad at making a product that makes money, I could go on on how they could both exponentiate the money made from this game while justifying actively supporting it) or how in terms of patching NRS has literally not given us a single thing we actually asked for (I can empirically prove this) in terms of balance decisions or balancing direction.
 
1: Breakaway does not carry sufficient risk for what it gives you. We've all been saying since day one, if you weren't gonna remove this, you should be absolutely able to murder somebody for having the read on a breakaway. Getting to escape a combo, the penalty for a really bad error in the scope of a fighting game, is a HUGE reward. The fact NRS's only response to this was a half assed clearly untested measure that isn't equally accessible to everyone in a combo situation and is also extremely imbalanced in it's reward is absurd to me and I think to many others. For the record, in my world, everyone would get full combos for reading breakaways. You should explode.
I hate the breakaway, probably one of the worst if not the worst mechanic in the fighting game ever. Every other points you mentionned seem almost not important next to that shitty mechanic.

You may have forgot in your rant that, in MK11, performing a combo on your opponent might be the worst mistake ever. Since this stupid mechanic allows the defender, like you said, not only to escape damage almost risk free, but allows the defender to punish your combo. I mean what kind of FG is that ?

So NRS tried to do something to fix its shitty mechanic but without taking too much time of development (because actual fixing is too expensive), and now we have something to make breakaway even dumber : the armor breakers. It's great because now instead there's a consistant guessing game of "should I combo to cash out the opening of the opponent and taking the risk of being breakaway punished" or "Should I go for the armor breaker but potentially losing a great amount of damage if he doesn't breakaway" ? It's great it's even dumber now !
When I was playing the beta I thought the breakaway thing was either a WIP or a bug that needed fixing. Nope, it was just clear incompetence.
See I didn't like much breakers in MKXL because it would reset both players in a neutral state and I always thought that a combo breaker should still give a frame advantage to the attacking player, but after MK11 I think MKX breakers are aren't that bad at all.

There are a lot of very dumb stuff in this game but the breakaway easily wins the title of the dumbest thing in the entire game.



And to all people waiting for a patch to fix the broken characters or mechanics in the game, just forget about it. The game has passed it rentability phase so they will leave the game like that and focus on their next product game. Sure they will update the game because they need a patch to add the recolored "new" gear to the recycled KL seasons and tweak a few frames here and there to some characters that don't need it but the game will mainly stay the same until the end of its "support".

The economic practice in this game was (and still is a bit but the intentions at the beginning matters the most) more predatory than a fucking free mobile game but here it was a fully priced game with a day one DLC character + a pre order of a season pass that didn't revealed its fucking content well after it was made available to purchase (even with a misleading teaser that Ash was supposed to be in it). But I saw that, and I was saying to myself "Well, at least the game will have a good support". Lol how wrong I was. See Street Fighter with its thousand of overpriced DLCs and Tekken's disgusting approach of selling frame data are also in the wrong in their shitty economic practices... But at least the games have actual support (and depth too). At the beginning, a lot of people here thought NRS was just "taking its time", to make the "right" balance options. Bullshit. NRS only cares about money.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I didn't go for a throw
Instead you just walked forward without blocking, which means you'd have gotten hit with literally anything the Liu Kang player did at that point (f4 into combo, 123 into combo, etc).

I don't know if you were attempting to shimmy him or what, but @Arqwart is right that this was preventable with a reversal on your part.
 

just_2swift

King of Edenia.
Instead you just walked forward without blocking, which means you'd have gotten hit with literally anything the Liu Kang player did at that point (f4 into combo, 123 into combo, etc).

I don't know if you were attempting to shimmy him or what, but @Arqwart is right that this was preventable with a reversal on your part.
I did for throw on the whiffed fly kick. I'm aware that if you block his fatal blow standing you can punish with a throw. I had it loaded as well. I guess the inconsistencies on block mentally changed my decision to punish with a button because he did it earlier in the set on block and I couldn't punish him. Most likely due to me crouching while blocking which changes the push back distance.
 
He may have failed to punish but it is not normal for a ressource free armored Super move to be that hard to punish and to recover that fast from it. Even at top level we've seen some players failing to punish some Fatal Blows like LK's, Jacqui's etc...
Some characters are litteraly not able to punish some FB under certain circumstances. For exemple Skarlet cannot punish Raiden's if he performs it at max range. I talk about Skarlet because it's the character I know the most but there are a lot of characters who can't punish fullscreen Fatal Blows. A FB should be like -40 on block with not only no pushback, but they need to make it so the attacker is drawn towards the defender. So at least like that everybody will be able to punish it effectively.

We've been asking for FBs to be easier to punish for what, a year and a half, andthey did say they added a pushback nerf in the Ultimate update, but honestly, I saw no difference, nobody fucking did. Yes they added the "easy Flawless block" thing but outside of training mode nobody will flawless block them on purpose.

So yeah he made mistakes but the design of the moves clearly helps the attacker to either avoid optimal damage punish or to avoid any punish at all just like here. But we've been talking about this since the beta so... They just don't want to change it, the "change but not really a change" with the easy flawless block made it crystal clear.
 

Jbog

Noob
Patch this game already nrs! The top 5 play a whole different game. I try to play and enjoy it but always end up pissed and being done when I play a top 5 character. The rest can't compete their so watered down gam has no creativity fun. Hopefully a big patch it coming or I'll be undownloading
 

just_2swift

King of Edenia.
Patch this game already nrs! The top 5 play a whole different game. I try to play and enjoy it but always end up pissed and being done when I play a top 5 character. The rest can't compete their so watered down gam has no creativity fun. Hopefully a big patch it coming or I'll be undownloading
Buff Kung lao
 

Jbog

Noob
The top 5 characters in this game play inj2 meta not mk11 same annoying game play as the ij2 characters u had to chase down the whole match as they jump across screen and get in for free. It's annoying and boring. Then neuter your punishments with breakaway or stupid wake up roll and pressure gone Sart the whole annoying process over again.
 

just_2swift

King of Edenia.
The top 5 characters in this game play inj2 meta not mk11 same annoying game play as the ij2 characters u had to chase down the whole match as they jump across screen and get in for free. It's annoying and boring. Then neuter your punishments with breakaway or stupid wake up roll and pressure gone Sart the whole annoying process over again.
Jax actually has a passive/ trait