The Newest Mortal Kombat (9) Tier List

[LuckyStrikeMike]

Please read.

Most players would agree that Kabal is the best character in the game, followed by Raiden and Cyrax and Kitana, but that is highly debatable and requires a match up chart.

Ahh thanks for pointing out the alphabetical order thing. I feel stupid now.

But yeah. I still feel discriminated against, to the extent that players without direct access to tournaments aren't taken seriously.
So, the spirit of my post is still not addressed, I think.
I'm hoping that a community match-up chart is in the works that will solve all of this, anyway.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Ahh thanks for pointing out the alphabetical order thing. I feel stupid now.

But yeah. I still feel discriminated against, to the extent that players without direct access to tournaments aren't taken seriously.
So, the spirit of my post is still not addressed, I think.
I'm hoping that a community match-up chart is in the works that will solve all of this, anyway.

Offline competitors will always sort of look down on online only players in fighting games, especially with this games crappy online metagame. I am in your same boat, I have a scene near me but I have a lot of other issues I must put before that. That being said, I don't think you can completely write off online players opinions. I remember Mr Mileena getting second at DEV which was his first offline tourney. If you go into training mode and find stuff out, then you should be able to post it. But if you base everything you say solely off of laggy online games, then you can't blame people for getting frustrated.

 

[Check]

CRT Tier List?

 

[Vilén]

Ahh thanks for pointing out the alphabetical order thing. I feel stupid now.

But yeah. I still feel discriminated against, to the extent that players without direct access to tournaments aren't taken seriously.
So, the spirit of my post is still not addressed, I think.
I'm hoping that a community match-up chart is in the works that will solve all of this, anyway.

Tier lists and match-up charts are designed only to reflect high level offline play. Information for it is taken from nowhere else, the information from it should be applied nowhere else.

The cold, hard truth is that MK9 offline and MK9 online are vastly different games and come with different tier lists.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Remember, tier lists are not based on tournament results whatsoever. They are based off the "perfect" gameplay premise.

If both characters are played offline perfectly, who would win the most games out of ten? The reason opinions of offline players are taken more heavily is only because they play the game in the way it is judged...it allows for a deaper understanding than what an online player can get. It's widely known that a online only reptile player would put him higher than an offline only reptile based on how hard it is to punish a blocked dash. I've been beaten by mediocre reptiles online solely because of dash.

There are great online players and great offline players and great players who play on both...but none of that matters in this thread. What matters is the knowledge of matchups, which tends to favor the offline player for obvious reasons.

 

[rev0lver]

Dave said they considered hers Kenshi and Kabal.

Even being as generous as possible with her matchups, why would Raiden not be considered a bad matchup for her? I know you ran into a slew of Raidens at Devastation, but the matchup on paper is in Raiden's favor (assuming Raiden is timing his teleports correctly, for example). I also will say the Liu Kang matchup is on paper at least 6-4 in his favor, and will be proven in action. I suppose everything else could be argued for only .5 advantage, which isn't significant enough, but I really see at least 4 that are more than that.

 

[Ruuku1012]

I'd like to know which character you guys think are Kano's bad match ups.

 

[aj1701]

For instance, I'd say that cyrax's placement at the #1 spot on this list is at best unwarranted, at worst flat out wrong, because the community has yet to see a cyrax win a major. I know that cyrax has all the tools to win a tournament and play against the top 5, but he hasn't done so. So why place him at the top? Because of his potential? That seems like a bad reason.

Sorry, thats not how it works. Top tier doesn't mean "got first in a tourney." Its the player going to the tourneys doing pretty well and learning alot. Its not that our opinion doesn't matter, its that we haven't faced the absolute best other players to see what tricks they have and how they get out of our traps.

In anything else, you listen to the pros, and that's what's going on here.

 

[JacopeX]

Of course, Kenshi struggles against the likes of Kung Lao, Reptile, Nightwolf, Jax, Raiden, Rain, Scorpion, and Kabal.

The teleporting and frame traps really kills the momentum for me when playing Kenshi at it's most viable strategy. Armor moves are the way to go in those cases but zoning is sometimes almost impossible. Speed is not in his favor at all and has very crappy basic attacks such as his uppercut, sweep, and overhead unfortunately. He does have many tools to keep away and inflict a lot of damage, but when it comes down to work on defense, he has nothing but poking and EN rising karma/spirit charge.

 

[LuckyStrikeMike]

Sorry, thats not how it works. Top tier doesn't mean "got first in a tourney." Its the player going to the tourneys doing pretty well and learning alot. Its not that our opinion doesn't matter, its that we haven't faced the absolute best other players to see what tricks they have and how they get out of our traps.

In anything else, you listen to the pros, and that's what's going on here.

I get that. And I agree that the pros should have the most weight behind their tier opinions. But tournament results DO matter. They reflect the degree to which the community acknowledges the strength of a character. And many tier lists are constructed purely tournament results (see SF4, 3rd strike, and smash). But they are certainly not the last word, and maybe not the best to start with.

But what I don't like is the idea that tier lists are just a giant theoretical vortex, where every character's best possible match is all that's considered. If that were the case, things should be vastly different for tiers in a lot of games. If that were how it worked in third strike, Urien would be the best character because of his insane unblockable setups and situational instant kill combos.

That's a bad way to think of tier lists. They SHOULD consider how practical pulling off a difficult set up in a tournament match will be. This is why smoke shouldn't be top tier on this list. No one is going to reliably pull of his 100% resets. Same with kabal - no one is going to reliably pull of his block stun infinites (even REO or Warda, even with special sticks and pads) because it is just that difficult (though he's good for other reasons).

Practicality/execution difficulty should be and is a dimension of a character's placement on informed tier lists. That's what I want to get across.

 

[Zoidberg747]

A tier list addresses a character's tools, not tourney results. People say Cyrax doesnt show tourney results, yet guys like Mustard, Maxter and others put up a solid showing at almost every tourney they go to.

 

[Wildabeast]

Funny, I just dropped Smoke not too long ago and now people are saying hes S Tier. I guess since zoning seems to be a big thing now a days he was bound to move up just by virtue of being un-zonable.

 

[Sasuga]

This list is based the number of bad matchups. It doesn't incorporate good matchups like the chart does so the outcome is going to differ very much.

I prefer the chart style. If Mileena is S tier, i'm dropping her!

 

[16 Bit]

Even being as generous as possible with her matchups, why would Raiden not be considered a bad matchup for her? I know you ran into a slew of Raidens at Devastation, but the matchup on paper is in Raiden's favor (assuming Raiden is timing his teleports correctly, for example). I also will say the Liu Kang matchup is on paper at least 6-4 in his favor, and will be proven in action. I suppose everything else could be argued for only .5 advantage, which isn't significant enough, but I really see at least 4 that are more than that.

I'm assuming they'd say that Raiden is favored but it's not overwhelming. Kitana can't play her game against him, it's a match of reacting to him at his pace, but he doesn't blow her up like those two do. All you do against Raiden is guess but it's a fairly even guessing game.

I'm not convinced Liu is that bad. I don't know though.

 

[shura30]

what happened to the matchup chart?

 

[rev0lver]

I'm not convinced Liu is that bad. I don't know though.

I think this is because we really haven't seen much high level Kang vs Kitana. I think even Mr. Mileena put this as her worst matchup, but I don't know about that. The only match with good players of each that I've seen is Xblades vs Shords (which I think Xblades won). so I'm really excited to see some matches between REO's Kang and CD. Just looking at it on paper, Liu Kang outzones Kitana (even ex IASB can be hit by 2 Kang IAF's before she reaches him from fullscreen) and has great pressure strings/launchers up close (which are faster than all of Kitana's standing attacks).

Also, I stated in the podcast thread that Josh99 punished my d1 with Jax's low starter multiple times during casuals, so I do think a Liu Kang can full combo punish if it's practiced. We have to keep in mind that these things are based on paper and not how often we see punishments happen.

 

[16 Bit]

I can't comment on d+1 being punished without seeing how it's being used.

But a Liu or Jax looking to punish it with their low strings is freeing up d+1~cutter, throw and other stuff.

 

[funkdoc]

Kano bad matchups: Kabal (for now), Sub, Mileena, Cage, Jax. I'm feeling a bit more sure about those last 2. Sonya might even be in there if she plays real patient with the dash blocking and d4's.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Kano bad matchups: Kabal (for now), Sub, Mileena, Cage, Jax. I'm feeling a bit more sure about those last 2. Sonya might even be in there if she plays real patient with the dash blocking and d4's.

Cyber Sub Zero goes here as well. He just blows up Kano with Dive Kicks and being able to parry everything Kano has on wakeup.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

What puts SZ above Kenshi?

 

[Chaosphere]

What puts SZ above Kenshi?

Looks like the number of bad matchups.

 

[Shady]

I don't believe in tier lists, but I also don't agree with a number of placements on this one.

 

[Justice]

Who said anything about theory fighters ??? I m talking from experience. And i m telling again i dont need to pressure those characters i ll just zone them. What part of ZONE THEM you dont understand ? When they come close i ll block what they do and down poke them after their string is over. The only thing i have to be careful is when JC and Jax have bars cause of the armored moves which is why you dont throw random TKP's. Its not that difficult to win these matches you just have to be patient and careful. I hear all the time "when JC reaches his opponent its over for him bla bla bla" well its not if you know how to counter these things. If you dont have anything to say, being ironic wont get you anywhere m8. Just saying... If you wanna continue this then send me a PM.

The only time I've ever lost convincingly to Ermac is if they were able to keep me at fullscreen. Midscreen or closer vs. Sonya and Ermac struggles.

 

[cHAncEman1292]

This list has actually made be realize how balanced this game is. It seems the vast majority of the cast are in the S-A range. I have to say I am skeptical about the placement of some characters. Noob I don't think should be that low. He fits in with characters like Cyrax and Sub Zero...characters that when you place againist you have to adapt to THEIR game. So I think he should be higher...I'm curious about other ones too...like Shang and Skarlet but that might be due to a bias on my part. I believe Skarlet to be one of the most underestimated players on the roster. She literally is dirty...please someone back me up. Also as a Jade player I find this this disheartening but true! She has to work really hard and you have to know how to use ALL your tools...but I find her rewarding none the less. I suppose in a perfect world...Jade can't be zoned due to flash....but that's the perfect world and this list is the reality...

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

This list has actually made be realize how balanced this game is. It seems the vast majority of the cast are in the S-A range. I have to say I am skeptical about the placement of some characters. Noob I don't think should be that low. He fits in with characters like Cyrax and Sub Zero...characters that when you place againist you have to adapt to THEIR game. So I think he should be higher...I'm curious about other ones too...like Shang and Skarlet but that might be due to a bias on my part. I believe Skarlet to be one of the most underestimated players on the roster. She literally is dirty...please someone back me up. Also as a Jade player I find this this disheartening but true! She has to work really hard and you have to know how to use ALL your tools...but I find her rewarding none the less. I suppose in a perfect world...Jade can't be zoned due to flash....but that's the perfect world and this list is the reality...

I don't think tier lists are about the tools characters have... but more about the holes they have in their game. If you look at it that way, the tier lists will make more sense.