The New Top Tier Characters (Post East Coast Throwdown)

[NeroOps]

The top 10 characters haven't really changed much besides scorpion no longer being on the list
Not in any particular order:
liu kang
cetrion
sonya
baraka
jax
cassie
geras
jacqui
erron
kabal

 

[GLoRToR]

I am aware this thread exists, but the discussion is dead. From playing and watching the game, particularly what was seen last weekend at East Coast Throwdown, who do you think are the new and current top tier characters (i.e., the top 10)? Here is what I think at the moment (alphabetical order).

- Cetrion - self-explanatory.

- D'Vorah - I am not at all sure about this one. I am merely going by the fact that Sonic Fox appears to have dropped all of his former main characters except D'Vorah. I was originally going to add Jax to this list instead of D'Vorah. The hit range of the fatal blow being changed to a high attack is a significant nerf.

- Frost - the augers in the third variation add another layer of depth to Frost's strings and mid range game. Apparently, the augers do not jail all characters, though. Could she become another Show Stopper? Time will tell.

- Geras - self-explanatory.

- Jacqui - self-explanatory, but I would like to add that she is very well-balanced in terms of varations. All three seem to be very good.

- Johnny Cage - Outtake has become one of the very best zoning variations in the game. Show Stopper has superior offense and comeback potential, but EX forceballs still whiff on most female characters.

- Kitana - fixes to razors and a couple of universal buffs solidify Highborn as a top 10 variation. Maybe even top 5. The first and third variations have conspicuous weaknesses and are no better than mid tier.

- Liu Kang - f+4 has been changed to 11 frames, which is a noticeable nerf but not noticeable enough to drop from the top 10.

- Nightwolf - this character is simply very good at Mortal Kombat 11. Great low poke. Great jab string. Great throws. Mid strings are good but not among the best. Now Nightwolf just needs a fundamentally strong player to get results. Foxy, the floor is all yours.

- Sonya - self-explanatory

What do you think? Who are the new and current top tier characters?

Why does Kabal continue to fly under the radar? He's lowkey the most busted in all the cast.

 

[Vengeance135]

Why does Kabal continue to fly under the radar? He's lowkey the most busted in all the cast.

Wow... I never thought I would ever agree with you but I do. Kabal is top 10 EASY.

 

[Vengeance135]

As someone who mains Cassie, the reason why people are selling her shorter than before is because of mainly amplfied upglow kick being punishable now without needing meter to react. I don't think F4's change is what stops her. F4 was a good change to her. She shouldn't have been 0 after that anyway. -3 is good. They nerfed Ex glowkick to where people can flawless then punish to the point that the gap is very seeable. If they would've made it like -7 or 8 with the gap, they'd have to spend meter so she would just give up her turn even more, but it's -10 without strings, -14 with strings. She never really was "0". She was -4 after she amplified but people didn't like she had too much safety & viewed it as a "get out of jail free card".

I don't think it puts her far below to like B - or anything like Rewind although he has her at A (still though looking at his list he put her way lower than she should be imo like he put Kotal & Scorpion above her) & I think she still deserves to be like A+ to A somewhere, but her being top 10 now is definitely arguable. She can still throw people's timings off by shortening the strings & have the same pushback,. So it's easier said than done, but point is she takes more risks offensively.

I love reading your posts because they are almost always hella informative. With that being said, I do think that Cassie isn't in the top 10 anymore easy and it's not because of her lack of tools. Its simply because with character buffs and adjustments, other characters are just better.

My personal list of Top 10 are as followed:

1. Liu Kang is the best in the game imo

The rest arent in any specific order

1. Cetrion
2. Johnny Cage
3. Geras
4. Sonya
5. Kitana
6. Kabal
7. Nightwolf
8. Jax
9. Sub-Zero

Now I already know that anybody would reads my post is going to be like... "Sub-zero? Really bro?" But that 3rd Variation really is something. Not only does he have unreactable 50/50 starters, he can now make them safe if blocked. Mix that with a great spacing game, fast forward advancing punishing moves that can low profile, great damage and solid anti-airs and you have a strong character.

 

[Error404]

Just the fact that this is now a discussion , mean the game is in a good place. It really wasn't a few weeks ago.

 

[NHDR]

Out of the top 10, who has best zoning? Best rush down? Best AA's? Best footsies? Would be interested to hear that as well from some people here.

 

[MKF30]

For the most part agree, but Jacqui is higher IMO above Frost and Sonya with her V3 is literally broken good.

 

[OutworldKeith]

He wasnt as good as people made him out to be even when it was a mid.

That’s a Fendi Fact

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Out of the top 10, who has best zoning? Best rush down? Best AA's? Best footsies? Would be interested to hear that as well from some people here.

Zoning: Cetrion (goes without saying), Sonya, Liu Kang, Cage
Footsies: Cetrion (surprise surprise), Cage, Kabal, Jacqui, Cassie
Rush down: Liu Kang, Jax, Jacqui
General Space Control: Geras, Kitana, Cetrion, Cassie

 

[kcd117]

Geras - this character is another level of stupidity. His -3 launcher puta you in a scenario that is always unfavorable to you as long as he has meter, his throw loop game is stupid fraudulent and his quicksand trap is the kind of move that should not exist in competitive games at all (since it does, bc NRS reasons, a neutral killer like that could never do past 7% dmg and never be less than -50 on block). I’ll not even talk about his teleports in form of dashes.

Cetrion - infinite active frames on her moves and barely any recovery. Teleport away makes 0 sense balance-wise.

Kang - he is still dumb, just not as dumb as he was pre patch.

Jacqui - the barely minus staggers and pokes are real. Also, cheetah is back and she’s never been as good. I still think she needs some serious adjustments to her frame data and now to that broke leap special.

Sonya - lbsh, she is deadshot 2.0.

Those are the top 5 and all of them are still in need of nerfs imo.

After that I’d say:

Sub-Zero: idc what anyone says, this character is fraudulent as hell with his strike/throw, 50/50, broken backdash, broken jump normals and broken iceball (why is that shit only punishable at close range??). He is good for all the wrong reasons imo.

Cage - he probably covers 90% of the matchups across his variations now. Very solid character.

Kotal - just like cage, I can’t see him struggling in many matchups anymore.

Kabal - he outfootsies most of the cast and can compete against the top tiers.

Kitana - she is another character that I think is not good, but simply cheap. Cheap jump ins, cheap pressure... everything that is good about him is not good in a “fine” way.

Honorable mentions to the “fine” characters that I think can also be top 10 material: Cassie, Frost, Noob and Nightwolf.

And to those that are also in discussion but in a more cheap way: Lao and Baraka.

Shang Tsung - his gap game got stronger from the KB nerf. 10 frame low combo starter or poke. Excellent zoning and his v3 smoke parry make him an all round powerhouse.

I simply can’t agree with Shang being a top tier character due to the fact that every top ten list he is in has 5-7 other characters that beat him pretty bad with him. The simple fact that he struggles A LOT against Geras and Kang is enough to make him unviable as a main at the highest level, as you really need to have another character to cover the most used characters in tournament.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Jacqui - the barely minus staggers and pokes are real. Also, cheetah is back and she’s never been as good. I still think she needs some serious adjustments to her frame data and now to that broke leap special.

Upgraded is fine. The thing people don't understand is that almost all of her kit is punishable for big damage (raw leap, air blast, ABC on block, slam, etc). You will never guess correctly every time -- but the risk reward is more often in your favor, not in hers.

So it requires an very smart player to play her, she can't make mistakes, and imo that's how a character should be. Good payoff at a high level, but not anywhere close to braindead.

 

[GLoRToR]

Wow... I never thought I would ever agree with you but I do. Kabal is top 10 EASY.

Truth prevails.

 

[kcd117]

Upgraded is fine. The thing people don't understand is that almost all of her kit is punishable for big damage (raw leap, air blast, ABC on block, slam, etc). You will never guess correctly every time -- but the risk reward is in your favor, not in hers.

So it requires an very smart player to play her, she can't make mistakes, and imo that's how a character should be. Good payoff at a high level, but not anywhere close to braindead.

Upgraded would be fine if the game had decent anti airs. Giving a character a fullscreen leap and moves that mess with her jump arc in a game where stats show us the top players only anti air 1/5 of the time at the highest level bc jump ins are beyond broken is everything but fine.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Upgraded would be fine if the game had decent anti airs. Giving a character a fullscreen leap and moves that mess with her jump arc in a game where stats show us the top players only anti air 1/5 of the time at the highest level bc jump ins are beyond broken is everything but fine.

If she's actually jumping in, you can hit her out of the leap before the normal comes out. If she's doing anything else (air burst, ABC, ground pound) it's unsafe/full combo punishable on block, or even whiff in some cases (like after AB and ABC). So it's a read, and in general the risk/reward on it is even in some instances, and in your favor in the others.

If you just block, she can't cancel her pressure like she can in 1st Round, so if you're unsure of what she's going to do in the air and don't want to risk the AA, just block like you would a normal jump in.

 

[Vengeance135]

If she's actually jumping in, you can hit her out of the leap before the normal comes out. If she's doing anything else (air burst, ABC, ground pound) it's unsafe/full combo punishable on block, or even whiff in some cases. So it's a read, and in general the risk/reward on it is even in some cases, and in your favor in the others.

Don't get me wrong, upgraded is hella good but I think the one I'm really seeing become a problem, at least online, is Next Gen imo. I really think people are sleeping on it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Don't get me wrong, upgraded is hella good but I think the one I'm really seeing become a problem, at least online, is Next Gen imo. I really think people are sleeping on it.

Yeah, imo Next-Gen is a really great MU-specific counterpick. There are a bunch of characters that can pretty easily zone her through the grenade launcher -- but then there are other charcters who really struggle with getting in through the DOT, and then she still has her staggers once they're up close. It's an excellent tool for her to have in the bag depending on the situation.

Her having all 3 of these variations is pretty awesome, and I'm really looking forward to seeing someone who can play all 3 at a high level.

 

[Jynks]

- Frost - the augers in the third variation add another layer of depth to Frost's strings and mid range game.

- Jacqui - All three seem to be very good.

- Johnny Cage - Outtake has become one of the very best zoning variations in the game.

https://testyourmight.com/threads/hot-take-third-variations-will-have-little-to-no-effect-on-the-meta.71938/

 

[M2Dave]

Why does Kabal continue to fly under the radar? He's lowkey the most busted in all the cast.

Tournament results suggest otherwise.

https://testyourmight.com/threads/hot-take-third-variations-will-have-little-to-no-effect-on-the-meta.71938/

So... 3-4 third variations are tournament viable out of how many?

By the way, I am thinking about replacing Frost with Sub Zero (third variation) and D'Vorah with Jax.

 

[Vengeance135]

Tournament results suggest otherwise.



So... 3-4 third variations are tournament viable out of how many?

By the way, I am thinking about replacing Frost with Sub Zero (third variation) and D'Vorah with Jax.

Finally someone's taking notice of Sub Zeros 3rd Variation. Its hella strong. I thought I was going to get blown up for saying that.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

So... 3-4 third variations are tournament viable out of how many?

By the way, I am thinking about replacing Frost with Sub Zero (third variation) and D'Vorah with Jax.

I have seen:
Kabal
Cage
Sub
Frost
Jacqui
Nightwolf
Geras

All with 3rd variations played at a high level in tournament just within the past couple weeks.

I think “3-4” is extremely disingenuous.

-Not being someone’s best variation doesn’t make it not viable (MUs, counterpicks etc)
-Not having made Top 8 at a major within a couple weeks of being released doesn’t make it not viable
etc.

 

[GLoRToR]

Tournament results suggest otherwise.

Has Sonic Fox or Ninjakilla played Kabal and lost with him yet and I missed it?

 

[M2Dave]

Has Sonic Fox or Ninjakilla played Kabal and lost with him yet and I missed it?

No. They only choose and learn top tier characters.

forget it Crimson.. Dave is incapable of admitting he has made a mistake or misunderstood something. I mean after all these years you should know that!!

As Tom said, when you are wrong, the whole world must know every day. When you are right, nobody cares because everyone already knew. Besides, when I make a mistake (i.e., Zod and Tremor), I admit that I am wrong, but I am not going to apologize to someone who does not understand basic arithmetic and protects NRS no matter the circumstances.

 

[GLoRToR]

No. They only choose and learn top tier characters.

You're full of shit.

 

[Jynks]

I actually tried to delete that before you saw it. I wanted to be funny but thought it came off mean. Sorry.

 

[Vhozite]

I swear I've seen like half the roster mentioned as potentially top tier in this thread.