Strategy The Neutral Game (more discussion needed)

[Protagonist_1]

One of the things I noticed when I come on to TYM is that there's a lot of discussion about setups and not about the neutral game. I feel having an effective neutral game, in any fighting game, is essential to understanding and breaking down how a game works as well as matchups. Although setups and new tech are all great ways to push a character further, a good 80% of any match takes place in the neutral game(this can change depending on matchups).

I make this post in hopes of more discussion about the neutral game. I always find it amazing when players like daigo always find new ways to bait the opponent into attacking, or walking in and out of an opponents attack range. Understanding the neutral game of a fighting game is not easy, it takes months to years to develop fundamentals, and it's never stagnates; a players neutral game will always improve over time and there is no limit to this improvement. While a character may have terrible matchups, a good neutral game can make up for the disadvantage. (except in matchups were movement is entirely limited ex. lex vs. zod)

I plan to make a post some time in the future to hopefully engage in further discussion of injustice's neutral game, and hopefully MKX as well. Below are a couple of GIFs I feel are a good display of injustice neutral game at the highest level:

Noobe vs. Theo (Footsie based jump in)


Tyrant vs. Blind Ducky (forward walk then back out - whiff punish)


Tyrant vs. Pig of the Hut (anti-air)


Tyrant vs. Pig of the Hut (whiff punish)


Tyrant vs. Pig of the Hut (whiff punish)


Whiteboi vs. Kaotic Zombie (whiff punish on f2)


If there's too much lag on the gifs I'll be sure to put it in spoilers.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I wish I could post a gif of MAD KOF and Aris completely shutting down pre-patch Black Adam with Nightwing/Deathstroke. Back when everyone was complaining about how braindead BA was, these guys figured out on the fly how to completely control the space BA wanted to occupy with Dive Kicks and MB Lightning.

It was beautiful to watch.

 

[Braindead]

Noobe vs. Theo (Footsie based jump in)

Thank you based jump in.

Aaaaand the obligatory:

Back when everyone was complaining about how braindead BA was, these guys figured out on the fly how to completely control the space BA wanted to occupy with Dive Kicks and MB Lightning.

It was beautiful to watch.

Hi.

On a serious note, great thread.

 

[usbigboy]

You notice how most of those videos are tyrant lol he's too godlike

 

[Relaxedstate]

I think the most important one is punishing dash in. People get nervous in the neutral which makes them dash/jump. Punish accordingly

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I love the idea of this thread.

So many times this goes un noticed and pressure loops are all that get focused on. This is why I feel NW is a strong character. His reach with normals and his over all ground control with specials make people HAVE to try and occupy the upper opposite corner of the screen where he can't touch them.

The characters that control that space naturally (HG, GL) give him trouble where on the other hand, characters that don't he does well against. This is also my favorite part of fighting games in general and why I chose the characters I choose.

 

[IrishMantis]

Tyrant IS my favorite NRS player, with CD right behind then Brady, although it changes i always have Tyrant in my top 3

 

[JustPressingButtons]

I honestly feel like Injustice players really need to focus on their neutral more. Many people love to claim injustice doesn't have footsies and you can jump for free, and they're the same ones who don't play a neutral game. They're missing out on the ability to anti air, whiff punish, trip guard, punish dashes (huge one), and counter poke. Without playing neutral in this game, you aren't winning vs high level players unless they disregard neutral as well IMO.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Punishing dashes IMO is #1

 

[SaltFace NS]

I agree with this a lot man. To me I think of it like this...Setups win you games but a neutral game wins you tournaments (Setups win tournaments if there is no knowledge on how to counter it).

Look at any of my matches to see a strong neutral game at work.

 

[Eldriken]

I agree with this a lot man. To me I think of it like this...Setups win you games but a neutral game wins you tournaments (Setups win tournaments if there is no knowledge on how to counter it).

Look at any of my matches to see a strong neutral game at work.

You win because Harley is top tier in your hands.

You're also godlike.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Neutral game in the Grundy vs ZOD MU only takes u so far as Grundy

Trust me

NJ is key though in most MUs as well as ability to stand your ground calmly

 

[16 Bit]

Great thread idea. It's so frustrating hearing this game get blown up for having no footsies or neutral game by players who aren't good. I think that attitude has seriously hurt the growth of this game's meta because it's been a crutch for losing players.

 

[SaltFace NS]

Great thread idea. It's so frustrating hearing this game get blown up for having no footsies or neutral game by players who aren't good. I think that attitude has seriously hurt the growth of this game's meta because it's been a crutch for losing players.

The 1st thing I ever learned playing this game was my spacing, zoning, & neutral game. To me it has been what separates me from many other players. I don't use many Setups & gimmicks but my neutral is so strong I force opponents into mistakes & capitalize on it.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I wish I could post a gif of MAD KOF and Aris completely shutting down pre-patch Black Adam with Nightwing/Deathstroke. Back when everyone was complaining about how braindead BA was, these guys figured out on the fly how to completely control the space BA wanted to occupy with Dive Kicks and MB Lightning.

It was beautiful to watch.

I was going to say you could always link to a timestamped Twitch archive, and then I remembered that Twitch archives are going away forever. But if you can find something on Youtube, definitely link it up.

Also, I could go on about this topic for days.

To get more into it, if you notice in both of Tyrant's "whiff punish" videos he's correctly taking advantage of a back-to-block game; in both cases he spaces himself out with the ranged normal first, then when it's blocked, he walks backwards, which allows him to both stay safe from that range (because he'd be blocking even if the counterattack lands) and bait the whiff.

It's the little subtle things that people miss that often make the difference between good and great players.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Zoning,Spacing & Neutral game is what you NEED in this game.....hell you need that in all fighting games.You won't get too far without them,but as I am typing this my brain keeps reminding me of PL's Doomsday. Brain sthap

 

[IrishMantis]

These are too fun get more Gif

 

[Yoaks]

This is the Number One thing I need to work on as a player. For the last month or so I've been trying to find different setup's, higher damaging combo's, gimmicks etc.
But last night after I played a set with Xenomorph and after that set I realized what I need to work on the most. Which is my neutral game. I was getting whiffed punished so much for just throwing out s3 or Hook Charge. I was just throwing these moves out thinking that I'm within the right range. Also working on my patience and not getting "worked up" when in the heat of the moment. I jump or dash in way too much when I get frustrated, pressured or I just don't know what to do. Characters like Zatanna, Ares or Frost are so foreign to me that I just do shit without any real strategy. But if I play an Aquaman, Batman, Superman or MMH. I generally know what to do in those mu's. Working on my footsie game and patience would help me out in those particular mu's that I just have no clue on what to do. As well as helping me level up overall.

Great thread!

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

I honestly feel like Injustice players really need to focus on their neutral more. Many people love to claim injustice doesn't have footsies and you can jump for free, and they're the same ones who don't play a neutral game. They're missing out on the ability to anti air, whiff punish, trip guard, punish dashes (huge one), and counter poke. Without playing neutral in this game, you aren't winning vs high level players unless they disregard neutral as well IMO.

Players of any game of any skill level should always be focusing on their neutral game.

 

[Protagonist_1]

First off I want to say thanks to everyone who posted in this thread. I thought it would fall into the deep dark depths of unread TYM threads haha, but I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels this way. Had a huge smile on my face when I got back from class, so thanks again!

I just couldn’t help but feel that the game (in my opinion) has a lot more depth than at face value, and the one part I feel isn’t explored or talked about enough is the neutral game. I’ve been really eager to have discussion about this (and I hope it’s not too late with MKX around the corner), and look forward to talking about it in the future.

Also, if anyone wants to make gifs off of youtube you can go to “makeagif” and create your own (please don’t abuse this though lol). It’s how I made the gifs above. I might post some more, since finding these were pretty fun (Tyrants neutral game is godlike btw). I might do this with MK9 as well if people are interested.

 

[Laos_boy]

@AK SaltFace reads and zoning.
@GGA 16 Bit trip guarding
And Tyrants whiff punishes.
Are all the best examples of neutral game. I wish I had these

Oh and they do it with mid-low tier characters

 

[SHAOLIN]

So for the past year or so me & a friend of my being play SF4.Now mind you with both come from two off-branch fighting games (MK9 & Smash Bros series respectively). We didn't have the greatest neutral game in the world,but we felt like we could do better,anyhow we decide to do this type of training for SF4:

We would play matches with JUST normals,no fireballs,you couldn't jump and your combos would have to come from whiff punishes and other sort. This training may not be for everyone,but I hope it helps people on finding ways to level up your neutral & spacing game.

 

[Pnut]

This is something I strive to better myself at every time I play the game. I started Injustice (and fighting games really) a little over a year ago now and the differences between when I started and now is night and day. But I always feel like I can improve and I will continue to try to improve so I can be on the neutral game level of Pig (lol), Woundcowboy, and Theo. Every time I play players of their caliber it amazes me to see how they approach the neutral game and how they capitalize on their opponent's every mistake. I hope to get to their level by the time MK X comes around ... we will see though.

 

[ChatterBox]

I love this thread, and I agree totally on its purpose. How do I improve my neutral game though? The only suggestion I’ve seen is from @Shaolin 19 and I'm gonna try that soon. Any tips/ticks/training from anyone else? I just went 0-2 at my first big tournament and would like that to change for next time.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Tip: When playing neutral let your opponent make the first move & counteract it, if opponent has the same idea then walk in & out of his/her normal range and punish accordlying (This only pertains to chars with fast walkspeed)