Discussion The negativity online (mkxl)

[Wigy]

For reals. If you don't play overwatch, that shits bad

Go into a game everyone goes dps and then everyone throws because everyone else is dps.

Eu PS4 servers are all Saudi arabians' who are apparently the most toxic people on the planet. Had no dealings with them before OW then noticed I kept getting players with KSA in their names who could barely speak English and do nothing but hurl abuse and disconnect. Realised it wasn't a clan but kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

It's like the Russians from CS GO.

 

[Cursa]

Heh, I don't play Overwatch, but this is so common across different games. You've just reminded me that I've spent most of my Fractured Space "career" flying goddamn healers, and most of my MMORPG time building healers/tanks, or at least toolboxy characters. It was that, or getting constantly stuck in queues waiting for someone who could take the role.

Yeah in OW I spent most of my time playing tanks, but in the rare games where I HAD to go DPS, whether due to not having enough or one of our DPS's just not pulling his weight, I'd always wreck face.

That said wrecking face with Pharah on console was pretty easy. Hitscan heroes are my counter? Say that when I dive one and he's already down 120hp of his 200hp pool before he even knows I'm there

 

[Cursa]

Back to MKX though, I find I get saltier going back to MKX ranked since it's not sets. I feel like there's good amount of times I get robbed of a win because I was just so unprepared for the random Mileena teleports and rolls because of "Why would he do that? It's so unsafe? So random?" and it works

Tldr; basically one-trick pony strats

 

[dc1902]

I'm not going to lie. I sent salty messages(nothing too offensive) if I feel like I got gimmicked out . ex. I was having a good match and going toe to toe with this guy and then he just starts mashing jason's 6 frame low like crazy. I couldn't do anything and I lost to that.

Some things in mkxl feel like they were put in to satisfy people looking for easy wins or shortcuts to winning.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Idk I just don't really see why people feel the need to rage message in FG's. Like I get frustrated when Fate zones me out, or Flash just 50/50s me to death, but that just means I need to either get better against them, whether by learning the MU or by picking a better character for the MU.

About counterpic: In MKXL I always experienced that if I changed my character to a "better MU one" as I did not play top tiers the opponent changed to also a reactive counterpick. So I got used to it that I always play underdog lol.

In IJ2 now I also experience that "everybody" plays with me only if they can win (player match). Every time I am close to win or win they escape not to lose their stat. As I want to learn I go even until 0/10 against a better player if it is close enough to be able to learn. They happily press rematch. But any time I gave him hard work they rather leave and find another poor stat guy... Or I do not know why they leave when we had a good fight.

Only poor "worse stat" players want to play rematch to learn/have fun however when I clearly see he has no chance I leave in 1-2 matches. So my stat gets only worse over time with that "attitude".

IJ2 ranked however seems at least a good set play.
Of course I find good and honest players as well.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I'm not going to lie. I sent salty messages(nothing too offensive) if I feel like I got gimmicked out . ex. I was having a good match and going toe to toe with this guy and then he just starts mashing jason's 6 frame low like crazy. I couldn't do anything and I lost to that.

Some things in mkxl feel like they were put in to satisfy people looking for easy wins or shortcuts to winning.

That's not an MKX thing, every game can have this stuff. If you can't dead with such things, that's on you. I ran into stuff like this before and I've countered them easily.

 

[Classic Malt]

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but it got to the point, where those toxic players make fake accounts and teabag you, after they beat you while you were using a character, that is not your main. Funny thing though, they ragequit then, when you beat them with your main. Happening on PS4 a lot lately.

 

[Wigy]

It the game isn't reliant on team mates who really gives a shit anyway.

The game doesn't change in any way if they're dicks. Just win and leave. If they teabag and shout over the mic I just give em something to be salty about and enjoy it.

It's usually the same people who get salty playing the mindless characters who have very effective cheese tactics. Can't remember when I ever played a mileena who didn't teabag.

 

[Barrogh]

That's not an MKX thing, every game can have this stuff. If you can't dead with such things, that's on you. I ran into stuff like this before and I've countered them easily.

I mean, we've never said you can't.
Some things are inherently easier to blame though, like, for example, a 50/50 of a setplay in a game where almost everyone can do that.

It's not like other games don't have it, it's just in some games such situations happen more often and if real counterplay is indirect ("make correct read" is not a counterplay in my example, "don't end up in this situation" is, but it is indirect), people get more salty.

This was never about facts or objective strength of certain game elements. It was always about perception of said elements. Which does have something to do with how they are designed, albeit it still depends on your mindset. And I assure you most people don't have cool competitive, "not scrubby" as per Sirlin, mindset you're talking about.

 

[Wigy]

I mean, we've never said you can't.
Some things are inherently easier to blame though, like, for example, a 50/50 of a setplay in a game where almost everyone can do that.

It's not like other games don't have it, it's just in some games such situations happen more often and if real counterplay is indirect ("make correct read" is not a counterplay in my example, "don't end up in this situation" is, but it is indirect), people get more salty.

This was never about facts or objective strength of certain game elements. It was always about perception of said elements. Which does have something to do with how they are designed, albeit it still depends on your mindset. And I assure you most people don't have cool competitive, "not scrubby" as per Sirlin, mindset you're talking about.

I totally agree. Unfortunately there are very low skill strategies that are extremely effective. I mained bo at the end of mkx and sektor and Milena d3 is basically a block infinite.
It is understandable why people get salty.

DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON D4 HELLSPARKS

at one point there was someone #1 on eu servers called d4 hellsparks, he was really good but lordy playing him was the most frustrating thing.

It's all a matter of ego and frustration. Just gotta accept it and move on at the end of the day

 

[KiD INsAnitY]

Lmao ever play For Honor? Talking about toxic that community will literally give you a tumor...Fighting games are arguably the most competitive genre of games add that to the fact that you can say WHATEVER you want on the interwebs your deff gonna run into the saltyness... Mk is nowhere near the worst of it tho at all.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I mean, we've never said you can't.
Some things are inherently easier to blame though, like, for example, a 50/50 of a setplay in a game where almost everyone can do that.

It's not like other games don't have it, it's just in some games such situations happen more often and if real counterplay is indirect ("make correct read" is not a counterplay in my example, "don't end up in this situation" is, but it is indirect), people get more salty.

This was never about facts or objective strength of certain game elements. It was always about perception of said elements. Which does have something to do with how they are designed, albeit it still depends on your mindset. And I assure you most people don't have cool competitive, "not scrubby" as per Sirlin, mindset you're talking about.

You do realize you just made a salad here right? I was talking about the example that dc1902 said about mashing lows and supposedly being unable to get out of them. Not 50/50's or Setplays of any kind. Mixing/50-50's as well as Setplay are legit strategies that yes, can also be in any game, but those are legit strategies that yes, you need to learn how to deal with them too, but not those incidents of mashing pokes that only look so cheap yet they can also be dealt with, but just not legit strategies as 50/50's or Setplay.

Now I don't wanna this to go off topic too much but about your post in particular: By saying "everyone can do that" you mean every player, or every character? Because as easy as it might sound and look, not every single player can go for 5050's or Mixing or Setplay, and MKX is not JUST ABOUT THAT ALONE, there is also Knockdown, Setups, Pressure, Raw Rushdown, and yes, Aggressive type of projectile-based Zoning and in some specific MU's, more defensive type of Zoning, and yes, even footsies, even if it's by the normals in that game that have long reach. There are multiple kinds of offensive play, not just 50/50's, and not every single player is gonna go one kind, not matter how easy it is to do on paper.

Now of course that not everyone had the cool competitive approach, that is true, and yes the perception about some elements can be related to their design, but the connection to their design is only very negligible AT WORST. And as for counter play, not being in such situation is not an indirect thing at all, because if you can prevent the opponent from turning the match into that situation, and even more so, put the opponent in a situation that favors, that is a direct approach, not an indirect one.

I totally agree. Unfortunately there are very low skill strategies that are extremely effective. I mained bo at the end of mkx and sektor and Milena d3 is basically a block infinite.
It is understandable why people get salty.

DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON D4 HELLSPARKS

at one point there was someone #1 on eu servers called d4 hellsparks, he was really good but lordy playing him was the most frustrating thing.

It's all a matter of ego and frustration. Just gotta accept it and move on at the end of the day

I'm sorry and I once again I do not wanna take this off topic too much, but if you actually think that D3 and ONLY THE D3 with such minuscule amount of chip damage is actually a block infinite, as if you were facing MK9's Kabal, not only that's not an actual strategy that can be measured by skill, but that's, once again, on you. And as for the D4 into Hellsparks, that is a legit and not low skill at all, no matter how frustrating it is, just like projectile-based is a legit thing. Just because it is frustrating to be in those situations that doesn't mean it's not legit. Frustrating opponent's is a legit strategy in fighting games, and it's YOUR JOB to stay calmed find out what to do to not end up being in them. So yes, if you're getting frustrated, that's understandable, but that's not low skill whatsoever.

 

[Wigy]

You do realize you just made a salad here right? I was talking about the example that dc1902 said about mashing lows and supposedly being unable to get out of them. Not 50/50's or Setplays of any kind. Mixing/50-50's as well as Setplay are legit strategies that yes, can also be in any game, but those are legit strategies that yes, you need to learn how to deal with them too, but not those incidents of mashing pokes that only look so cheap yet they can also be dealt with, but just not legit strategies as 50/50's or Setplay.

Now I don't wanna this to go off topic too much but about your post in particular: By saying "everyone can do that" you mean every player, or every character? Because as easy as it might sound and look, not every single player can go for 5050's or Mixing or Setplay, and MKX is not JUST ABOUT THAT ALONE, there is also Knockdown, Setups, Pressure, Raw Rushdown, and yes, Aggressive type of projectile-based Zoning and in some specific MU's, more defensive type of Zoning, and yes, even footsies, even if it's by the normals in that game that have long reach. There are multiple kinds of offensive play, not just 50/50's, and not every single player is gonna go one kind, not matter how easy it is to do on paper.

Now of course that not everyone had the cool competitive approach, that is true, and yes the perception about some elements can be related to their design, but the connection to their design is only very negligible AT WORST. And as for counter play, not being in such situation is not an indirect thing at all, because if you can prevent the opponent from turning the match into that situation, and even more so, put the opponent in a situation that favors, that is a direct approach, not an indirect one.



I'm sorry and I once again I do not wanna take this off topic too much, but if you actually think that D3 and ONLY THE D3 with such minuscule amount of chip damage is actually a block infinite, as if you were facing MK9's Kabal, not only that's not an actual strategy that can be measured by skill, but that's, once again, on you. And as for the D4 into Hellsparks, that is a legit and not low skill at all, no matter how frustrating it is, just like projectile-based is a legit thing. Just because it is frustrating to be in those situations that doesn't mean it's not legit. Frustrating opponent's is a legit strategy in fighting games, and it's YOUR JOB to stay calmed find out what to do to not end up being in them.

Chill out man

For Bo Rai cho. His f1 gets low profiled and his d1 gets low profiled by d3's and his d3 had no range. So I have to work my way in against zoning and then when I close the distance he doesn't have any consistent options without absolutely perfect execution. Where they can loosely mash.

D4 hellsparks is not skillful. Lol stop. His d4 had crazy range and low profiled and he had terrifying space control that forced you to respect it.

I'm not saying I can't work around both. I did. But it's understably frustrating with the execution being so low and the required execution to counter being high. You're right at what you're saying but in the context of someone begging for nerfs. People will be understandably salty at stuff like this but it's up to them to hold it and accept it as long as it's not OP as fuck.

 

[Cursa]

A strategy can be legit and low skill at the same time

And what @Barrogh said is 100% legit for FG's in particular. Yes there is often a lot of strategies that seem impossible to beat to begin with, and there is counterplay to most of them (Otherwise they're basically OP and need nerfs), but it doesn't change the fact that at the time people will get salty about it, regardless of the availability of counterplay.

Literally everyone is guilty of it. If you say you aren't then you're either lying, you're playing a ridiculous character, or you're infinitely better than the rest of us and should probably sign up at the next major.

I don't have fun whenever I get my Bane counterpicked by Fate. Yes, I know there is multiple methods of counterplay available, and I know them all, but it doesn't change the fact that sometimes I'm just having a shite day, or I'm on a losing streak, or whatever.

Basically what I'm getting at is that FG's are hard to pick up for new players. When I first picked up IJ2 I thought Darkseid was ridiculous. Knockdown zoning, 50/50's when he leaves the ground, easily 45%+ combo damage for a bar, oki setups, mobility, all the works. I got past it, but that's because I knew the mechanics of the game and adapted them to my own situation.

A new player isn't going to know these mechanics, and they're just gonna get salty and give up. They won't bother to learn the mechanics because what's the point? Hell, I was playing a KotH with my real life friends (Who are by no means FG players) and I picked Robin. I wrecked face with them and they didn't know what to do. They gave up, as most people would. You can't just LEARN stuff like that over time, you need to dedicate time in the lab to be able to learn frames and what counters your specific character(s) have.

In most other games you CAN learn stuff like that. Like in R6 I remember I would always get spawn peaked from the same spots every game and it got me salty. I thought it was broken. Then I kept playing along and I figured it out eventually. No ridiculous game mechanics or testing required, just a little bit of common sense, patience, and a good aim.

Tldr; Yes, stuff like this exists in every game basically, but fighting games punish new/unprepared players SIGNIFICANTLY harder than most other games people play. The only other genre I can think of that punishes players as hard is MOBA's (Also a really salty community) and games like Starcraft (Also a pretty salty community)

Seeing a trend?

 

[Roy Arkon]

Chill out man

For Bo Rai cho. His f1 gets low profiled and his d1 gets low profiled by d3's and his d3 had no range. So I have to work my way in against zoning and then when I close the distance he doesn't have any consistent options without absolutely perfect execution. Where they can loosely mash.

D4 hellsparks is not skillful. Lol stop. His d4 had crazy range and low profiled and he had terrifying space control that forced you to respect it.

I not saying I can't work around both. I did. But it's understably frustrating with the execution being so low and the required execution to counter being high. You're right at what you're saying but in the context of someone begging for nerfs. People will be understandably salty at stuff like this but it's up to them to hold it and accept it as long as it's not OP as fuck.

I'm don't main BRC so I don't know exactly all of his options, I do know however that BRC is indeed one of the harder characters to use in MKX (unless maybe if you use Bartitsu, which is my favorite Variation of him), and if you picked a char that is indeed very hard to use and his particular normals that you mentioned are indeed not working against those particular chars at those particular scenarios, then them mashing D3 is not a block infinate, even in terms of MU specific stuff, it's just that you, indeed, need to find ways around it or ways to prevent the opponent from putting you in those scenarios to begin with, and turn the match into a scenario in your favor.

And as for Shinnok, yes his D4 has very good range, but as easy as it looks by you to get hit by it, the Shinnok player need to get the right range in order to hit you with it, and understanding the space in order to hit you with a move is indeed a skill-based thing that requires work in order to understand the spacing, no matter how easy it is for you to think like that once you get hit by it after he worked so hard on it.

Getting frustrated is understandable, but just because it is frustrating to you to get caught by some things that doesn't that those things don't require skill/work in order for them to be as frustrating once your opponent masters those things. And FTR, frustrating opponents on purpose is a legit strategy in Fighting Games in general. If a player's gameplan is to frustrate an opponent tot the point that he loses his cool and he doesn't know what to do, that's a legit, psychological strategy that requires work and skill.

A strategy can be legit and low skill at the same time

And what @Barrogh said is 100% legit for FG's in particular. Yes there is often a lot of strategies that seem impossible to beat to begin with, and there is counterplay to most of them (Otherwise they're basically OP and need nerfs), but it doesn't change the fact that at the time people will get salty about it, regardless of the availability of counterplay.

Literally everyone is guilty of it. If you say you aren't then you're either lying, you're playing a ridiculous character, or you're infinitely better than the rest of us and should probably sign up at the next major.

I don't have fun whenever I get my Bane counterpicked by Fate. Yes, I know there is multiple methods of counterplay available, and I know them all, but it doesn't change the fact that sometimes I'm just having a shite day, or I'm on a losing streak, or whatever.

Basically what I'm getting at is that FG's are hard to pick up for new players. When I first picked up IJ2 I thought Darkseid was ridiculous. Knockdown zoning, 50/50's when he leaves the ground, easily 45%+ combo damage for a bar, oki setups, mobility, all the works. I got past it, but that's because I knew the mechanics of the game and adapted them to my own situation.

A new player isn't going to know these mechanics, and they're just gonna get salty and give up. They won't bother to learn the mechanics because what's the point? Hell, I was playing a KotH with my real life friends (Who are by no means FG players) and I picked Robin. I wrecked face with them and they didn't know what to do. They gave up, as most people would. You can't just LEARN stuff like that over time, you need to dedicate time in the lab to be able to learn frames and what counters your specific character(s) have.

In most other games you CAN learn stuff like that. Like in R6 I remember I would always get spawn peaked from the same spots every game and it got me salty. I thought it was broken. Then I kept playing along and I figured it out eventually. No ridiculous game mechanics or testing required, just a little bit of common sense, patience, and a good aim.

Tldr; Yes, stuff like this exists in every game basically, but fighting games punish new/unprepared players SIGNIFICANTLY harder than most other games people play. The only other genre I can think of that punishes players as hard is MOBA's (Also a really salty community) and games like Starcraft (Also a pretty salty community)

Seeing a trend?

Aside from the fact that what Barrogh said came after mixing legit strategies with mashing pokes (which is what I was talking about) while all of them can still be dealt with (each in their own way), I never said you're never gonna get frustrated nor that is not understandable, I had those situations myself. All I said is that you need to stay calm and that's the players job to find ways around stuff, because it is possible to find ways around them, and always remember to not let the frustrations get into you. Nobody said it is easy to do.

And as for strategies, that is no such thing as low skill strategy. There are characters that are very easy to use, but even for them, there always gonna be something that requires skill (what is not low) in order to master these chars to their full potential. Whatever that is spacing, ability to make reads etc. Also, FTR, there are a few select things, even if specific ones, that you can learn in Fighting Games over time.

 

[Wigy]

I don't play any characters who zone so the 'shinnock having to get you into the range' thing is a total bill. He sits and zones me, then I have to walk in against all his projectiles, I have to worry about him running in, jumping in or using hellsparks raw. So there is little skill in landing a d4 hellsparks. It's a meme for God sakes.

Any character has to get into the effective range for their particular tool, it's all relative. You have to come in shinnock, he has a bunch of really good space tools, his d4 has well above average range and d4 hellsparks works on block and hit. Most strategies require some skill input. D4 hellsparks is just low.

Your entire argument here hinges on the fact that NRS can both balance a characters tools at the highest level and balance the execution to effectiveness. That's just ridiculous.

There is a huge disparity in skill vs execution and that's fine albeit very annoying as long as at the highest level theyre balanced. But in some matchups tools are broken as fuck.

You remember vanilla jc vs kitana or vanilla jc vs Jason. You could legitimately win just mashing d4 the whole match.

Stop trying to be so boyscout fgc about everything. What you're saying is just not realistic it's just the FGC good player rhetoric. The stategy may require some skill but not nearly as much as it takes to counter it. Christ mileena could ball rolling under just about 4/5s of some of all characters strings. Whats skillful about getting rewarded for mashing out of negative frames. To counter this, you gotta sit and block which gives mileena free reign. On top of that she can zone so you take all the chip to get in while she builds meter. You get in and then u just have to wait for her to kill herself while she has any number of amazing neutral strings and ways to open you up.

What you're saying is entirely correct in regards to balance but it's not with frustration.

The block infinite was obviously hyperbole otherwise those MUs would be 10-0s lol.

I'll just leave it there. You're entitled to your opinion and we can agree to disagree.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I don't play any characters who zone so the 'shinnock having to get you into the range' thing is a total bill. He sits and zones me, then I have to walk in against all his projectiles, I have to worry about him running in, jumping in or using hellsparks raw. So there is little skill in landing a d4 hellsparks. It's a meme for God sakes.

Any character has to get into the effective range for their particular tool, it's all relative. You have to come in shinnock, he has a bunch of really good space tools, his d4 has well above average range and d4 hellsparks works on block and hit. Most strategies require some skill input. D4 hellsparks is just low.

Your entire argument here hinges on the fact that NRS can both balance a characters tools at the highest level and balance the execution to effectiveness. That's just ridiculous.

There is a huge disparity in skill vs execution and that's fine albeit very annoying as long as at the highest level theyre balanced. But in some matchups tools are broken as fuck.

You remember vanilla jc vs kitana or vanilla jc vs Jason. You could legitimately win just mashing d4 the whole match.

Stop trying to be so boyscout fgc about everything. What you're saying is just not realistic it's just the FGC good player rhetoric. The stategy may require some skill but not nearly as much as it takes to counter it. Christ mileena could ball rolling under just about 4/5s of some of all characters strings. Whats skillful about getting rewarded for mashing out of negative frames. To counter this, you gotta sit and block which gives mileena free reign. On top of that she can zone so you take all the chip to get in while she builds meter. You get in and then u just have to wait for her to kill herself while she has any number of amazing neutral strings and ways to open you up.

What you're saying is entirely correct in regards to balance but it's not with frustration.

The block infinite was obviously hyperbole otherwise those MUs would be 10-0s lol.

I'll just leave it there. You're entitled to your opinion and we can agree to disagree.

I will post my last comment for this argument as well with this.

"I don't play any characters who zone so the 'shinnock having to get you into the range' thing is a total bill."

I'm sorry but that line right there was just silly as hell, and the tone of that can be seen in your entire post, as it clearly shows your argument comes from the standpoint of playing Bo' Rai Cho in partucular and not Universal aspects of MKX. I'm not trying to be a jackass here but that is the truth.

First off, I wasn't talking about the Hellsparks projectiles, I was talking about Shinnock's D4 which, yes, the Shinnok player does need to learn how wot get into the right range in order to hit you with it. And since you you're mentioning his Zoning and his mobility, all of those things require skill and work in order to put them all together for a gameplan in a real match, and not all players have the ability to do so as some players are better at other stuff like let's say pressure. I myself play Reptile, who is a versatile character that is top 2 strongest tools are his projectile-based Zoning and mobility as he does have both his Rep Dash and Slide that he can use for Mobility, and I can tell you from experience that you can't just scramble all of those stuff and everything will work just fine, you need to understand the situation that is front of you and now what to with each tool in each MU. So if the Shinnok player managed to make you panic about his Hellsparks, jumps and running, to the point he can catch you off guard with D4 and start his offense, that's only because he worked on understanding scenarios and he implanted that to his matches with you, and if you can't deal with that, that's on you.

Same thing for Mileena, all of your complaints are stuff that can be related to a ton of other chars in a ton of other games. And guess what? Reptile can also Zone you like hell, he also can low profile stuff with his B34 what also has a great range, and also has F21 that has great range for whiff punishing. That's what characters that have a ton of tools can do you and it's not true just for Mileena, and yet if you're blocking, you need to stay calm and wait until the right moment to retaliate, of course it's not easy, but that's a part of fighting games. And even if the whole "block infinite" thing was just a hyperbole, the fact that you make too much of a big deal out of it as while in actuality you're dealing with stuff that can be found in a ton of other places is just out of place , and once again, that's you to figure what you need to do with BRC in those situations.

These things are true not just for balance, but also for frustrations. Really don't understand why and how you differentiating between them.

On top of all of that, I find it quite funny that all of the hate complaints towards MKX are all about the 50/50's and the Run which does tied to the Stamina meter, yet almost all of your complaints here are about Zoning, Footsies, space control and Mobility outside of the Run mechanic, which is what you would expect to here in hate complaints towards IJ2. Not only that it proves even further that MKX does have Zoning and footsies and space control in addition to the high level of Rushdown and Mixing in it, but it looks to me that now you're just trying to make MKX to look bad as a game in general.

So in closing, I highly suggest that you shouldn't make overblown assumption for the overall meta of a game based on your experience with your chars alone. And like I said, it is indeed understandable if you get frustrated, and it's not always gonna be easy to find ways around stuff, but you can find ways around them and some of them are easy to be find and use.

I will leave it at that.

 

[Cursa]

Aside from the fact that what Barrogh said came after mixing legit strategies with mashing pokes (which is what I was talking about) while all of them can still be dealt with (each in their own way), I never said you're never gonna get frustrated nor that is not understandable, I had those situations myself. All I said is that you need to stay calm and that's the players job to find ways around stuff, because it is possible to find ways around them, and always remember to not let the frustrations get into you. Nobody said it is easy to do.

And as for strategies, that is no such thing as low skill strategy. There are characters that are very easy to use, but even for them, there always gonna be something that requires skill (what is not low) in order to master these chars to their full potential. Whatever that is spacing, ability to make reads etc. Also, FTR, there are a few select things, even if specific ones, that you can learn in Fighting Games over time.

Yeah but the question the thread asks is "Why is MKX so negative" and the fact that it's easy to get salty over fighting games, especially if you're a new/unfamiliar player, is exactly that reason. Which is a totally legit reason as to why MKX might have some more 'negativity' associated with it. I think you're misunderstanding what the OP is asking/discussing. Or maybe I am, who knows. But every character mentioned in the OP, sore losers, passive-aggressive dudes... can all be attributed to this reason. They either know the game better than a less skilled opponent and abuse it or they are a less skilled opponent that can't be bothered to leant.

You need to understand that there is a lot of people who don't understand that these problems even have solutions. If you came to the level 29, 13 year old kid who I just smacked with my Liu Kang, he would not hear a word about what you have to say about "not letting it get to you". He doesn't care. He thinks it's impossible, so what's the point. THAT is what makes people salty in FG's. All this stuff about 'not letting it get to you' is completely irrelevant. You could say the same about literally any game ever and if every single person took your advice then there would be 0 salty players, but they don't, because they refuse to listen to common sense, which is what leads to this negativity.

And on an unrelated note, low skill strategies are certainly a thing. If you think playing release Deadshot to an above-average level required a more than the bare minimum of time in the lab, then you need to check your stuff. Yes, there is a difference between playing above average Deadshot and full potential Deadshot but the difference is so small that is might as well be non-existent. Characters like these have low skill ceilings. Deadshot also suffered from having a low skill floor too.

Deadshot is a perfect example of a low skill strategy. Yes it is(was) effective. You couldn't really blame a player for using it. But to say that it wasn't a low skill strategy is just absurd. BF1 into MB rifle with minimal understanding of neutral or combo potential. I know this because Deadshot was the first character I levelled to 20 and started playing online with, I beat players far far above my skill level, partially because Deadshot was broken, but also partially because he was super ez to pick up.

Tldr; people are salty because they don't want to learn. Apply it to people in real life to like the last bitchy cashier chick who is in her 40's working at Subway. Same deal. Welcome to life

 

[Cursa]

This was never about facts or objective strength of certain game elements. It was always about perception of said elements. Which does have something to do with how they are designed, albeit it still depends on your mindset. And I assure you most people don't have cool competitive, "not scrubby" as per Sirlin, mindset you're talking about.

TLDR this whole thread

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Guys Roy won’t let you criticize any aspect of MKX, it’s perfect, all playstyes are fairly represented, it doesn’t make you angry to lose, Injustice is a bad game too, you should eat your 50/50s and setplay and shut the fuck up because other fighting games have them to, you should be delighted to lose to 50/50s because mixing is a legit strat

 

[Roy Arkon]

Yeah but the question the thread asks is "Why is MKX so negative" and the fact that it's easy to get salty over fighting games, especially if you're a new/unfamiliar player, is exactly that reason. Which is a totally legit reason as to why MKX might have some more 'negativity' associated with it. I think you're misunderstanding what the OP is asking/discussing. Or maybe I am, who knows. But every character mentioned in the OP, sore losers, passive-aggressive dudes... can all be attributed to this reason. They either know the game better than a less skilled opponent and abuse it or they are a less skilled opponent that can't be bothered to leant.

You need to understand that there is a lot of people who don't understand that these problems even have solutions. If you came to the level 29, 13 year old kid who I just smacked with my Liu Kang, he would not hear a word about what you have to say about "not letting it get to you". He doesn't care. He thinks it's impossible, so what's the point. THAT is what makes people salty in FG's. All this stuff about 'not letting it get to you' is completely irrelevant. You could say the same about literally any game ever and if every single person took your advice then there would be 0 salty players, but they don't, because they refuse to listen to common sense, which is what leads to this negativity.

And on an unrelated note, low skill strategies are certainly a thing. If you think playing release Deadshot to an above-average level required a more than the bare minimum of time in the lab, then you need to check your stuff. Yes, there is a difference between playing above average Deadshot and full potential Deadshot but the difference is so small that is might as well be non-existent. Characters like these have low skill ceilings. Deadshot also suffered from having a low skill floor too.

Deadshot is a perfect example of a low skill strategy. Yes it is(was) effective. You couldn't really blame a player for using it. But to say that it wasn't a low skill strategy is just absurd. BF1 into MB rifle with minimal understanding of neutral or combo potential. I know this because Deadshot was the first character I levelled to 20 and started playing online with, I beat players far far above my skill level, partially because Deadshot was broken, but also partially because he was super ez to pick up.

Tldr; people are salty because they don't want to learn. Apply it to people in real life to like the last bitchy cashier chick who is in her 40's working at Subway. Same deal. Welcome to life

I think both you and Barrogh have misunderstood the OP, just as much you misunderstood me, with all due respect. Of course it has to do with how fighting games in general are a lot harder to learn then other genres, I'm not a rookie you know, but what the OP said is clearly not about the game's elements but instead the behavior of his online opponents that he happened to run into. Of course that the fact that FG's are harder to learn and master in general has something to be associated with, but not only it doesn't relate to only one game or a select few, you can find people that behave like that in any game, just like you can find them in any social media platform. The real problem here is the anonymity of these people. If they would've face the OP in a local match, I can assure you that even if they would've get salty (which is understandable) they would've behave in a much more mature way, because they know they can't behave the same way they can behave online without having social repercussions to it.

Also regarding strategies, your whole statement is just wrong in it's core. I was talking about GENERAL STRATEGIES, and none of those are required low skill in order to reach their full potential, even if the char is easy to use. Your example about Deadshot is just wrong, because the only reason that strategy happen too be to easy to implemented with Deadshot in particular is because that Deadshot, like you said by yourself, was too easy to abuse at that time due to Deadshot's particular tools being too strong. Of course that can be char-specific strategies, but the GENERAL STRATEGY of Zoning and keepaway and frustrating the opponent to no end does require skill and work, no matter how easy it is seen from the opponent's POV. All you're doing here is just mixing up between general strategies and char's specific tools and that is just wrong. And even about Deadshot specifically, I for one already found ways with how to deal with Deadshot one the first week that Sub-Zero was out as DLC, in which Deadshot was still powerful before the nerfs he got, and I already managed to deal with Deadshots online. Not to mention that you said by yourself "there is a difference between playing above average Deadshot and full potential Deadshot". If that Deadshot player is above-average, that means he had to put at least SOME WORK into his gameplan, which means he would've had a decent amount of skill, unlike a below-average Deadshot who had to put minimal amount of work in which can then, and only then, he might have only very low skill.

Guys Roy won’t let you criticize any aspect of MKX, it’s perfect, all playstyes are fairly represented, it doesn’t make you angry to lose, Injustice is a bad game too, you should eat your 50/50s and setplay and shut the fuck up because other fighting games have them to, you should be delighted to lose to 50/50s because mixing is a legit strat

I never said that MKX is perfect nor I said that IJ2 is a bad game. Hell I praised IJ2 a tone, DO NOT PUT INTO MY MOUTH. Every fighting game can make you angry by losing int it as I said and even @Cursa said, all of those stuff you said can be easily said about IJ2 for the Zoning and the long stages in it yet that would be false as well for the same reasons. In fact, YOU ARE THE ONE who tries to trash MKX almost all the time, I've seen it a several other threads in addition to this one. Well let me tell you something pal, Mixing and Setplay are indeed legit strategies, even if them are easier to implement in some games, they are still legit, just like in IJ2, it is a lot easier to implement Zoning and footsies, if you can't deal with any of those stuff, that's on you. So yes, if you get panic by the Mixing and Setplay, that means that the opponent has managed to get into you, just like he can make you panic by raw Rushdown, Knockdown and other stuff, or even Zoning that yes, also still is in MKX. If you got panicked, that's on you. MK in general is a lot more offense based then other franchises, and MK3, UMK3, MKT, MK4 and MKG also were more offense based as they had the Run mechanic too, and if you think that MKX's offense is too much, you probably never played DBFZ or any of the MVC games.

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I think that ultimately, all of you guys ran out of the OP's question about the THE PLAYERS AND THE COMMUNITY, and turned that into yet another discussion about the game's mechanics and elements. Like I said earlier, that can be related to that too, but ultimately, it's about the online and how people wanna use it. Period.

 

[Juxtapose]

Tldr; Yes, stuff like this exists in every game basically, but fighting games punish new/unprepared players SIGNIFICANTLY harder than most other games people play. The only other genre I can think of that punishes players as hard is MOBA's (Also a really salty community) and games like Starcraft (Also a pretty salty community)

Seeing a trend?

^This. I also play StarCraft II, and am a veteran Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne player. My personal opinion is that proper real time strategy games (1v1) and fighting games are the two genres that take the most "skill" to succeed; they're the hardest games to master and compete in.

You really need a proper mindset to do well and enjoy these genres. Interestingly, while having players and followings, they're no where near as popular or mainstream as other genres, and the unforgiving nature and actual time investment needed to get good in them is a big factor of that.

Edit: I've also had great luck with Subway cashiers. My fav were the two fighting game guys, one loved Mortal Kombat, the other Street Fighter. We'd talk games every time I was there.

 

[Wigy]

Roy you must notice this pattern of everyone disagreeing with you in big discussions. I've been in about 4 threads where about 5+ people are disagreeing with you and nobody is backing you up.

I get where you're coming from but the point you're making is reductive and idealistic boyscout fgc chat.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

I was wondering who everyone was arguing with lol. I forgot I ignored Roy for these very reasons.

 

[Wigy]

Yeaaah I think I'mma ignore him too.